Insolvency / liquidating a Ltd Co

Insolvency / liquidating a Ltd Co

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Original Poster:

16,868 posts

218 months

Monday 3rd June
quotequote all
Do we have any experts on here? I have a PSC that I can't imagine will ever trade again, but has outstanding debts. Would be good to talk through the options with someone to see what the right course of action would be.

TIA thumbup

sleepezy

1,946 posts

241 months

Monday 3rd June
quotequote all
Who are the debts owed to, you (or similar connected party that could waive them) or external eg Hmrc?

And are they a material amount in your view (not asking you to say how much but depends if you owe not much for the last month's subscription or £100k in Corp tax as you had a good year...)

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Original Poster:

16,868 posts

218 months

Monday 3rd June
quotequote all
Two debts, both sub £5k. HMRC and Barclays.

StevieBee

13,570 posts

262 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Does the company have any assets; cash in bank, stock, equipment, etc?

If the debts can be settled using company assets, then you cannot liquidate the company. The debts should be paid and the company wound up. This would be the preferred option, even if you end up paying the debts yourself. It creates the cleanest break and there's nothing untoward against your name should you wish to start something else up later on.

If the debts cannot be paid, you need to appoint a liquidator who will verify the status and liquidate the company. They will advise on the best course of action depending upon the dynamics that relate to you.

If there is no money to pay the Liquidator Fees, you (and any other Director) will need to pay this fee from your own personal resources.

You could wait for the bank or HSBC to issue a compulsory liquidation where they carry the cost. This is very risky though. It is illegal to trade with an insolvent company - even if it simply exists and does nothing, it still retains a 'trading' status. This puts you at risk of disqualification from being a company Director for up to 15 years and being held personally liable for any debt.

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Original Poster:

16,868 posts

218 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Does the company have any assets; cash in bank, stock, equipment, etc?
Not enough to cover the debts, no, hence why I think it needs action now.

Any recommendations for insolvency practitioners?

iphonedyou

9,599 posts

164 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Wouldn't you just settle the debts? Personal loan, if needs be?

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Original Poster:

16,868 posts

218 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
iphonedyou said:
Wouldn't you just settle the debts? Personal loan, if needs be?
If I have to, yes. But it depends on what the potential repercussions of going through the insolvency process are, which is really the crux of my question.

Miserablegit

4,171 posts

116 months

Tuesday 4th June
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Try Robin Meynell at McTear Williams & Wood
https://www.mw-w.com/our-team/robin-meynell


StevieBee

13,570 posts

262 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Output Flange said:
iphonedyou said:
Wouldn't you just settle the debts? Personal loan, if needs be?
If I have to, yes. But it depends on what the potential repercussions of going through the insolvency process are, which is really the crux of my question.
Providing it's a limited company and you have no personal guarantees the only repercussion is that should you start a new business, obtaining bank financing may be a little more tricky than it would otherwise, but by no means impossible.

HMRC can pursue dissolved companies for up to six years. They can apply for the reinstatement of the company and former directors until such time as the debt is paid. This is very rare and highly unlikely for the sums you mention.

You asked for a recommendation for an insolvency practitioner.

I (sadly) had cause to use these four years ago and provided what I considered to be a good service: https://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com

HTH

Doofus

28,458 posts

180 months

Tuesday 4th June
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If the debt to Barclays is by way of loan or overdraft, I'd be surprised if you hadn't signed a PG for that anyway.

If the company has no assets, then an insolvency practitioner will come after you for their fees and charges.

Those two things together mean just personally borrowing the money to payoff HMRC and Barclays will probably be cheaper and certainly be less painful. Then you can just close the company down (or declare it dormant), which is somethig you can do yourself

StevieBee

13,570 posts

262 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Doofus said:
If the company has no assets, then an insolvency practitioner will come after you for their fees and charges.
....which could easily be around half of what is owed anyway.

Easy to say as it's not my money but if it were, I'd be settling everything and just shut the business down. Keeps the slate clean.

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
That would be my solution too. Put some personal money back into the company to clear the company's debts and then, once that has been done, apply for the company to be struck off.

Striking off is a very cheap option and much cheaper than paying a qualified insolvency practicioner to formally liquidate the company.


Miserablegit

4,171 posts

116 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Paying a professional for some advice provides an insurance policy that forum advice doesn’t.


Doofus

28,458 posts

180 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
Paying a professional for some advice provides an insurance policy that forum advice doesn’t.
Perhaps, but in this case, it isn't necessary.

1. Clear the debts personally, close the company.
2. Appoint an IP, get a report on you sent to the Insolvency Service, potentially have to settle some debts personally anyway.

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
Paying a professional for some advice provides an insurance policy that forum advice doesn’t.
You might be surprised that some professionals in this field actually post here.

Panamax

5,077 posts

41 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Miserablegit said:
Paying a professional for some advice provides an insurance policy that forum advice doesn’t.
You might be surprised that some professionals in this field actually post here.
^^ Confirmed. Correct/appropriate/common sense guidance has been given in this thread.

Miserablegit

4,171 posts

116 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Panamax said:
^^ Confirmed. Correct/appropriate/common sense guidance has been given in this thread.
Except it hasn’t- we know nothing about the company or the debts save the rough level of debt.
Is HMRC chasing for the debt?
As soon as somebody mentions PSC I think of IR35 issues.
The OP wants to know possible implications.
Worst case is you pay the debts off personally and try to dissolve the company only for HMRC or another creditor to object as they have additional claims against the company. You are then faced with an insolvent liquidation in any event even after having paid off what you thought the debts were.

There’s also the possibility of tax refunds as per another thread.
Getting some professional advice for peace of mind is always worth it.




Miserablegit

4,171 posts

116 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
You might be surprised that some professionals in this field actually post here.
I know we do

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
General advice is fine on a forum. SPECIFIC advice taking into account the specific needs of the person raising the query is always worth pursuing from a professional.

As we know, people are reluctant to go into too many specifics when they ask questions like this because they don't want to give too much away.

If questions are going to be vague - then the answers will also be vague, even from people who know what they are talking about - unless the person raising the query is willing to give more information.

I think it goes without saying that professional advice is always worth pursuing if you want specific answers to your pwn specific situation.

James P

2,980 posts

244 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
Panamax said:
^^ Confirmed. Correct/appropriate/common sense guidance has been given in this thread.
Except it hasn’t- we know nothing about the company or the debts save the rough level of debt.
Is HMRC chasing for the debt?
As soon as somebody mentions PSC I think of IR35 issues.
The OP wants to know possible implications.
Worst case is you pay the debts off personally and try to dissolve the company only for HMRC or another creditor to object as they have additional claims against the company. You are then faced with an insolvent liquidation in any event even after having paid off what you thought the debts were.

There’s also the possibility of tax refunds as per another thread.
Getting some professional advice for peace of mind is always worth it.
An insolvent PSC will make me think whether either or both illegal dividends (ie more than available reserves) have been paid or funds drawn to create an overdrawn loan account. The liquidator can/ will recover both. Therefore the OP needs advice specific to him not on a forum. If either/ both apply it’s likely to be cheaper to pay off the creditors directly rather than paying a liquidator as well.