Self employed mileage allowance - confusion

Self employed mileage allowance - confusion

Author
Discussion

Danny4494

Original Poster:

169 posts

104 months

Friday 17th May
quotequote all
I’m probably over thinking this and getting my self confused.

I’m self employed and the company I’m working for pay my expenses at 45p per mile up to 100,000

HMRC pay 45p per mile for the first 10,000 miles then reducing to 25p

Confusion comes when claiming expenses when I’m been payed the expenses and also once I’m over 10,000 miles I’ll be paying tax on the remaining 20p sorry if that’s confusing

Tia

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Saturday 18th May
quotequote all
How many customers do you have?

It sounds to me that you may not be properly self employed.

Danny4494

Original Poster:

169 posts

104 months

Saturday 18th May
quotequote all
Thanks for reply Eric, you also replied on my previous thread about working for one company self employed

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

LastPoster

2,715 posts

190 months

Saturday 18th May
quotequote all
If you are providing a service to a customer, HMRC won’t be interested in how much they pay you per mile

How you ‘pay’ yourself is where HMRC come in

IJWS15

1,937 posts

92 months

Saturday 18th May
quotequote all
HMRC allow you to claim 45p a mile for 10,000 and 25p a mile over that without paying income tax on it.

I don’t believe HMRC pay any mileage unless you are working for them.

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Saturday 18th May
quotequote all
People who are “self employed “ I.e. running a trading business, generally do not “claim mileage” from their customers. They factor ALL their overheads into their calculations when deciding how much they should charge their customers.
If a customer asks a sole trader to submit separate claims for travel on top of the normal invoices, I would tell them that it was none of their business,

As far as tax relief is concerned, a business can classify motoring and general travel costs based on ACTUAL costs incurred. By concession, to make life simple for smaller traders, they allow a general claim of 45p per mile up to 10,000 miles and 25p thereafter.

Be sure you understand what HMRC considers to be “businesses related travel”. Read the he Dr Samadian case to see how badly wrong this can go,

Danny4494

Original Poster:

169 posts

104 months

Saturday 18th May
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
People who are “self employed “ I.e. running a trading business, generally do not “claim mileage” from their customers. They factor ALL their overheads into their calculations when deciding how much they should charge their customers.
If a customer asks a sole trader to submit separate claims for travel on top of the normal invoices, I would tell them that it was none of their business,

As far as tax relief is concerned, a business can classify motoring and general travel costs based on ACTUAL costs incurred. By concession, to make life simple for smaller traders, they allow a general claim of 45p per mile up to 10,000 miles and 25p thereafter.

Be sure you understand what HMRC considers to be “businesses related travel”. Read the he Dr Samadian case to see how badly wrong this can go,
Thanks Eric, funny you should mention the samadian case was just reading about that as far as my understanding goes, I will only leave the house to do a survey I don’t have any permanent place of work I’ll just travel to my survey then to the next one then eventually come home so I believe all my miles from leaving my house to getting back home will be business miles.

I invoice the business I do the surveys for at the end of every month and they request how many miles I have done and pay me 45p per mile, so my confusion comes I have been payed 45p a mile by the customer can I still claim mileage with HMRC as technically although they are paying me it’s just NET profit because they don’t have to pay me it’s just a policy they have as a business.

Jordie Barretts sock

6,018 posts

26 months

Saturday 18th May
quotequote all
It's not a mileage allowance as far as you are concerned. It's income.

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Sunday 19th May
quotequote all
Exactly - businesses should not insist on other businesses charging them mileage.

If they do, that indicates to me that they look on you as some sort of "psuedo-employee". It's the type of thing HMRC could latch on to.

I hope they don't ask you to hand over any of your travel related expense receipts to support your "mileage claim". That's a real "no-no" as you, as a business, are required to keep these for your own business records. And, again, it's the type of thing employers ask (legitinately) of their employees.

Are you VAT registered?

Danny4494

Original Poster:

169 posts

104 months

Sunday 19th May
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Exactly - businesses should not insist on other businesses charging them mileage.

If they do, that indicates to me that they look on you as some sort of "psuedo-employee". It's the type of thing HMRC could latch on to.

I hope they don't ask you to hand over any of your travel related expense receipts to support your "mileage claim". That's a real "no-no" as you, as a business, are required to keep these for your own business records. And, again, it's the type of thing employers ask (legitinately) of their employees.

Are you VAT registered?
I see, they do insist I attach a mileage form separate to my invoice to cover my mileage, never been in this situation before with a singular business although I am definitely self employed sometimes they ask me to go to a survey and I’m busy so it’s a simple no and I’ll give them a date I can do it if it suits, in terms of travel expenses if for example I’m in the south and cba driving home I’ll get a hotel and send them a copy of the invoice with my invoice and they will cover that, in terms of mileage receipts I don’t have to prove anything to them.

This is a near on 900m business I’m surveying for so it’s not some small business they are nationwide and across the pond maybe it was naive for me to think that this is just how it is.

I suppose the real question here is I don’t want to put my self in any situation that could leave me in a liable position with the law, HMRC or any other external factor, that’s my main concern and I’m really not sure where I stand ?



Jordie Barretts sock

6,018 posts

26 months

Sunday 19th May
quotequote all
They have no right to ask you for that.

As a self employed business, you invoice them for your services. That includes your expenses. They don't get to choose what you charge for.

So you invoice £1000 to do a survey. If you are VAT registered you add that on.

You then personally deduct legitimate expenses which might be accommodation, fuel, subsistence (meals) and anything else.

LastPoster

2,715 posts

190 months

Sunday 19th May
quotequote all
I think you are being a bit simplistic there Mr Sock

How the OP charges for his services and the evidence requirements to support any expenses are a contractual matter between the OP and his client. It's not uncommon in my industry to pay consultants a Day Rate and incurred expenses plus an uplift and we have the contractual right ask for evidence of the expenses if required. In truth as long as they look ok this never happens.

But as per my previous post HMRC don't care about any of that. They only care about how the OP accounts for these expenses and that will depend on how his business is structured. Which I don't think has been stated so an answer cannot be given

MustangGT

12,287 posts

287 months

Monday 20th May
quotequote all
LastPoster said:
I think you are being a bit simplistic there Mr Sock

How the OP charges for his services and the evidence requirements to support any expenses are a contractual matter between the OP and his client. It's not uncommon in my industry to pay consultants a Day Rate and incurred expenses plus an uplift and we have the contractual right ask for evidence of the expenses if required. In truth as long as they look ok this never happens.

But as per my previous post HMRC don't care about any of that. They only care about how the OP accounts for these expenses and that will depend on how his business is structured. Which I don't think has been stated so an answer cannot be given
I think you are also being a bit simplistic. HMRC cares very much about employment status and disguised employment status.

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Monday 20th May
quotequote all
It matters not a jot what exists in a contract if HMRC decides otherwise.

LastPoster

2,715 posts

190 months

Monday 20th May
quotequote all
I was assuming that for the purposes of this thread, the OP is genuinely self employed, I accept this is in a bit of doubt here

48k

13,975 posts

155 months

Monday 20th May
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If it walks like disguised employment and quacks like disguised employment then it's an employed duck. Or something.