Holiday lodge / campsite - business owners ?
Discussion
Any owners on here or suggested forums for owners / would be owners.
My friend spent 25 years working aboard, mainly corporate type jobs but has had enough (totally burnt out, exacerbated by the separation from partner of last 10 years - no kids)
Plans to return to the UK, and has his heart set out a holiday lodge / campsite / glamping type business.
In his words somewhere he can be proud off and enjoy working in.
He has reasonable funds (circa £1m cash plus business mortgage if required)
Wants something he can through his efforts into for next 15 years (he is 52), he is reasonably practical with his hands, good with the public, worked in a corporate so gets the basics of HR, finance, mkting).
Are these places finically viable ?
He has seen a few for sale at £1.5m to £2.5m, but zero financial information is shared (he currently lives in a 9 hour time zone difference making anything other than online exchanges difficult). For now he just wants to know the high level finances I.e typical rev 20% of buy price…..net profit 33% of revenues etc etc
My friend spent 25 years working aboard, mainly corporate type jobs but has had enough (totally burnt out, exacerbated by the separation from partner of last 10 years - no kids)
Plans to return to the UK, and has his heart set out a holiday lodge / campsite / glamping type business.
In his words somewhere he can be proud off and enjoy working in.
He has reasonable funds (circa £1m cash plus business mortgage if required)
Wants something he can through his efforts into for next 15 years (he is 52), he is reasonably practical with his hands, good with the public, worked in a corporate so gets the basics of HR, finance, mkting).
Are these places finically viable ?
He has seen a few for sale at £1.5m to £2.5m, but zero financial information is shared (he currently lives in a 9 hour time zone difference making anything other than online exchanges difficult). For now he just wants to know the high level finances I.e typical rev 20% of buy price…..net profit 33% of revenues etc etc
I know somebody who owns a holiday park up in the north east of Scotland. Value around 0.75m (though he didn’t pay anything like that). He tried to sell it a couple of years ago and that was the best offer he got - he held on to it. Quite big, maybe 250 acres. Near a beach and some woodland.
Combination of hired and owned static caravans, pitches for caravans and campers, a small shop and cafe (run by a 3rd party).
Turnover is under £100k. No idea on gross profit but won’t be much.
I suspect lodges with hot tubs and a bar / restaurant are the way to go.
Combination of hired and owned static caravans, pitches for caravans and campers, a small shop and cafe (run by a 3rd party).
Turnover is under £100k. No idea on gross profit but won’t be much.
I suspect lodges with hot tubs and a bar / restaurant are the way to go.
Edited by Lefty on Sunday 31st March 09:33
I think the answer is: 'It depends...'
I don't run one, but I've dealt with the Planning for several (we've ended up inadvertently becoming minor specialists in them).
Some come back to us when they want to expand, from which we know they've been successful. Others, you know are wasting their time from day one.
It's now a fairly heavily saturated market, so you've got to offer something genuinely special or unique in what it offers, in the right location to be a real success.
THIS ONE (developed by a PistonHeader, though he's now sold it on for a tidy sum) is an example of how to do it right: just look at the bookings that they're getting, even several years in. But everything about it is spot on - the concept, the location, the execution and the management. At the other end of the spectrum, we get people expecting to put a shepherd's hut in their paddock in Lincolnshire and that the world will beat a path to their door, and you know right from the start that they might as well set fire to the money.
Be aware that if you're aiming for the very traditional, large site of static caravans/holiday lodges, you may find yourself up against other owner-operators from the Traveller community. We work for them too, and to be fair they're straight as a die when it comes to dealing with us, but you don't want to cross them if you'd be competing with their business.
I don't run one, but I've dealt with the Planning for several (we've ended up inadvertently becoming minor specialists in them).
Some come back to us when they want to expand, from which we know they've been successful. Others, you know are wasting their time from day one.
It's now a fairly heavily saturated market, so you've got to offer something genuinely special or unique in what it offers, in the right location to be a real success.
THIS ONE (developed by a PistonHeader, though he's now sold it on for a tidy sum) is an example of how to do it right: just look at the bookings that they're getting, even several years in. But everything about it is spot on - the concept, the location, the execution and the management. At the other end of the spectrum, we get people expecting to put a shepherd's hut in their paddock in Lincolnshire and that the world will beat a path to their door, and you know right from the start that they might as well set fire to the money.
Be aware that if you're aiming for the very traditional, large site of static caravans/holiday lodges, you may find yourself up against other owner-operators from the Traveller community. We work for them too, and to be fair they're straight as a die when it comes to dealing with us, but you don't want to cross them if you'd be competing with their business.
In 2015 a work colleague and I, who worked in Banking and had done for years looked into this really seriously . My pall who had the knowledge studied all the models he could and all the financials available . We looked at businesses for sale, UK and France and we were intent on buying a business together and leaving our jobs in Banking . it was an exhaustive research with due diligence style levels of interrogation. That's what we both did for work .
Headlines were : In the UK the season is far to short to make it work as a going concern, August is the one month the models are based on . In France and some we looked at in Italy the season is far more spread out . Can be much more of a robust model. UK tourists anywhere have very low levels of behaviour control and care of equipment and facilities . If you are just in the UK its likely that your place may get wrecked and abused when its full and the sun comes out . The worst payers, or people who defaulted, left at 5am without paying , were the British.
European examples have more revenue opportunity especially for outside stuff, pools, tennis courts etc . Restricted more in the short UK better weather . Cancelations in the UK was also a big factor, if you take full payment at booking , it can put people off, if the August Bank holiday weekend pours with rain , everyone cancels
Of all the months of research we did we found one common and simple factor. Its an outside leisure activity for guests and staff. It all works better if the weather is better . Simple as that .
We did not do it , and I retired from Banking two tears ago as did my pall. The best and robust models we found were Northern Italy , near a lake such as Garda , they had near all year full occupancy with holiday makers, walkers, even ski people in some instances .
Unless he is set on the UK , and he lives elsewhere now , I would not start that business in the UK .
.
Headlines were : In the UK the season is far to short to make it work as a going concern, August is the one month the models are based on . In France and some we looked at in Italy the season is far more spread out . Can be much more of a robust model. UK tourists anywhere have very low levels of behaviour control and care of equipment and facilities . If you are just in the UK its likely that your place may get wrecked and abused when its full and the sun comes out . The worst payers, or people who defaulted, left at 5am without paying , were the British.
European examples have more revenue opportunity especially for outside stuff, pools, tennis courts etc . Restricted more in the short UK better weather . Cancelations in the UK was also a big factor, if you take full payment at booking , it can put people off, if the August Bank holiday weekend pours with rain , everyone cancels
Of all the months of research we did we found one common and simple factor. Its an outside leisure activity for guests and staff. It all works better if the weather is better . Simple as that .
We did not do it , and I retired from Banking two tears ago as did my pall. The best and robust models we found were Northern Italy , near a lake such as Garda , they had near all year full occupancy with holiday makers, walkers, even ski people in some instances .
Unless he is set on the UK , and he lives elsewhere now , I would not start that business in the UK .
.
Equus said:
I think the answer is: 'It depends...'
I don't run one, but I've dealt with the Planning for several (we've ended up inadvertently becoming minor specialists in them).
Some come back to us when they want to expand, from which we know they've been successful. Others, you know are wasting their time from day one.
It's now a fairly heavily saturated market, so you've got to offer something genuinely special or unique in what it offers, in the right location to be a real success.
THIS ONE (developed by a PistonHeader, though he's now sold it on for a tidy sum) is an example of how to do it right: just look at the bookings that they're getting, even several years in. But everything about it is spot on - the concept, the location, the execution and the management. At the other end of the spectrum, we get people expecting to put a shepherd's hut in their paddock in Lincolnshire and that the world will beat a path to their door, and you know right from the start that they might as well set fire to the money.
Be aware that if you're aiming for the very traditional, large site of static caravans/holiday lodges, you may find yourself up against other owner-operators from the Traveller community. We work for them too, and to be fair they're straight as a die when it comes to dealing with us, but you don't want to cross them if you'd be competing with their business.
Thanks, useful info, I think he’s wants holiday homes rather than perm static homes.I don't run one, but I've dealt with the Planning for several (we've ended up inadvertently becoming minor specialists in them).
Some come back to us when they want to expand, from which we know they've been successful. Others, you know are wasting their time from day one.
It's now a fairly heavily saturated market, so you've got to offer something genuinely special or unique in what it offers, in the right location to be a real success.
THIS ONE (developed by a PistonHeader, though he's now sold it on for a tidy sum) is an example of how to do it right: just look at the bookings that they're getting, even several years in. But everything about it is spot on - the concept, the location, the execution and the management. At the other end of the spectrum, we get people expecting to put a shepherd's hut in their paddock in Lincolnshire and that the world will beat a path to their door, and you know right from the start that they might as well set fire to the money.
Be aware that if you're aiming for the very traditional, large site of static caravans/holiday lodges, you may find yourself up against other owner-operators from the Traveller community. We work for them too, and to be fair they're straight as a die when it comes to dealing with us, but you don't want to cross them if you'd be competing with their business.
The one you linked to is amazing.
cliffords said:
In 2015 a work colleague and I, who worked in Banking and had done for years looked into this really seriously . My pall who had the knowledge studied all the models he could and all the financials available . We looked at businesses for sale, UK and France and we were intent on buying a business together and leaving our jobs in Banking . it was an exhaustive research with due diligence style levels of interrogation. That's what we both did for work .
Headlines were : In the UK the season is far to short to make it work as a going concern, August is the one month the models are based on . In France and some we looked at in Italy the season is far more spread out . Can be much more of a robust model. UK tourists anywhere have very low levels of behaviour control and care of equipment and facilities . If you are just in the UK its likely that your place may get wrecked and abused when its full and the sun comes out . The worst payers, or people who defaulted, left at 5am without paying , were the British.
European examples have more revenue opportunity especially for outside stuff, pools, tennis courts etc . Restricted more in the short UK better weather . Cancelations in the UK was also a big factor, if you take full payment at booking , it can put people off, if the August Bank holiday weekend pours with rain , everyone cancels
Of all the months of research we did we found one common and simple factor. Its an outside leisure activity for guests and staff. It all works better if the weather is better . Simple as that .
We did not do it , and I retired from Banking two tears ago as did my pall. The best and robust models we found were Northern Italy , near a lake such as Garda , they had near all year full occupancy with holiday makers, walkers, even ski people in some instances .
Unless he is set on the UK , and he lives elsewhere now , I would not start that business in the UK .
.
Thanks, it is useful to know the downsides.Headlines were : In the UK the season is far to short to make it work as a going concern, August is the one month the models are based on . In France and some we looked at in Italy the season is far more spread out . Can be much more of a robust model. UK tourists anywhere have very low levels of behaviour control and care of equipment and facilities . If you are just in the UK its likely that your place may get wrecked and abused when its full and the sun comes out . The worst payers, or people who defaulted, left at 5am without paying , were the British.
European examples have more revenue opportunity especially for outside stuff, pools, tennis courts etc . Restricted more in the short UK better weather . Cancelations in the UK was also a big factor, if you take full payment at booking , it can put people off, if the August Bank holiday weekend pours with rain , everyone cancels
Of all the months of research we did we found one common and simple factor. Its an outside leisure activity for guests and staff. It all works better if the weather is better . Simple as that .
We did not do it , and I retired from Banking two tears ago as did my pall. The best and robust models we found were Northern Italy , near a lake such as Garda , they had near all year full occupancy with holiday makers, walkers, even ski people in some instances .
Unless he is set on the UK , and he lives elsewhere now , I would not start that business in the UK .
.
I’d imagine seeking something that can replace to banking salaries was in a whole different scale of purchase price ?
I don't think it has helped that every man and his dog saw this as a way to 'escape to the country', post-Covid (buy a nice house with a bit of land... work from home and set up a couple of glamping lodges or convert the annex into an AirBnB as a sideline...), to the degree that the whole market is now over-saturated.
Equus' warning about the caravan-utilising-nomadic-travellers is not to be taken lightly. Turf wars is very real and it's like a cartel in some areas as many of the established sites are owned by - or have strong links to - the traveller types Nobody wants a competitor setting up stall in their patch which will dilute the market. Probably 'safe' buying an established site (assuming the current owner's reason for selling is not due to the above!) but to set up a brand new site ? .. yeah, you should expect some resistance.
The last place I would buy a campsite is the UK.
I owned a small one in the French Pyrenees and the weather is the number 1 factor to a crap season or a brilliant season.
We had a few “residents “ but they were a pain in the arse because they seem to think they have some kind of stake in your business and have entitlement to things which they don’t.
Ordinary campers and holiday makers were by far the best clients because they were there a short time and had no vested interest in my campsite.
Edit.
Is the project a lifestyle business or manage from afar and take the money business.Each option requires different sites.
I owned a small one in the French Pyrenees and the weather is the number 1 factor to a crap season or a brilliant season.
We had a few “residents “ but they were a pain in the arse because they seem to think they have some kind of stake in your business and have entitlement to things which they don’t.
Ordinary campers and holiday makers were by far the best clients because they were there a short time and had no vested interest in my campsite.
Edit.
Is the project a lifestyle business or manage from afar and take the money business.Each option requires different sites.
Edited by smifffymoto on Sunday 31st March 11:58
This site is up for sale, speak to Roger, he is the owner.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=172bdeb478d...
I have a lodge there and love it down there.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=172bdeb478d...
I have a lodge there and love it down there.
smifffymoto said:
We had a few “residents “ but they were a pain in the arse because they seem to think they have some kind of stake in your business and have entitlement to things which they don’t.
Ordinary campers and holiday makers were by far the best clients because they were there a short time and had no vested interest in my campsite.
This depends entirely on the people. Just because one set of people felt entitled to tell you how to run the site doesn't mean everyone does. Being ex-farming I know a few (working) farmers who do seasonal no-frills pitches which is basically a spot in a reasonably flat field with no services other than access to a tap and somewhere to empty the cassette. Most of them have unofficial permies who are there all year round on a special weekly (rather than daily) deal and are as good as gold and a nice additional income for the farmer. The agreement is they must help out on the farm and be able to recite a pre-agreed story should someone with a suit and clipboard come walking up the track Ordinary campers and holiday makers were by far the best clients because they were there a short time and had no vested interest in my campsite.
.Equus said:
I don't think it has helped that every man and his dog saw this as a way to 'escape to the country', post-Covid (buy a nice house with a bit of land... work from home and set up a couple of glamping lodges or convert the annex into an AirBnB as a sideline...), to the degree that the whole market is now over-saturated.
Preceded a bit by the general rise of this kind of thing in the last decade, I assume from gbp vs eur and air travel costs and other stuff which saw a domestic holiday resurgence, a bit?I went from not knowing anyone in the holiday industry space to having friends doing glamping and holiday lets.
The post covid correction and rubbish wet winters like this year won’t help.
It's lovely, but what's special about it? You need to buy the second lot to not get f
ked over with weddings (to the extent anyone has their wedding there), and it's one of dozens that are similar. I appreciate it is available, and others may not be, but I'd be all over the accounts like a tramp on chips to see if there really is a return, and bookings, not forgetting just because you can't book doesn't mean it is actually full.
ked over with weddings (to the extent anyone has their wedding there), and it's one of dozens that are similar. I appreciate it is available, and others may not be, but I'd be all over the accounts like a tramp on chips to see if there really is a return, and bookings, not forgetting just because you can't book doesn't mean it is actually full.macron said:
It's lovely, but what's special about it? You need to buy the second lot to not get fked over with weddings (to the extent anyone has their wedding there)……...
Thanks, all useful feedback.ked over with weddings (to the extent anyone has their wedding there)……...I also wondered why they split the lots, perhaps to keep the price down, or to create a further similar lodge business next door.
The positive points are,
Largely modern conversion and relatively new lodges.
Beautiful site (not just an open field of pitches)
Lodges and ‘barn conversion’ should be less susceptible to rain cancellations.
Also a good platform for weddings, wellness retreats, ‘business team building’ (although a long way from most big cities).
As you suggested it will be all in the numbers,
The buyers financial expectations are modest, annual return of 5% on the buy price (after all costs, including small wage for himself), and some modest long term appreciation in capital value.
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