Prototype Electronic Components

[Wing Commander]

Hi all

I wanted to pick your brains to see if anyone can nudge me in the right direction.

Basically, I want to get a prototype electronic device made. It's a extremely simple audio recording device. Key requirements for it are:

Small (think 20p size)
It does not need a screen of any type
I would like one big button on it (ideally the whole "face" of it is a button) - press the button to start recording, press again to stop the recording
When the device is recording, it needs to have a flashing light. I want it to be really obvious that it's recording.

Unsure about connections at this stage - minimum would be a hard connection ie USB-C but feel that is too big for this. Potentially, inductive charging and wifi/bluetooth for data transfer, ie similar to a smart ring. However, I am keen to keep this simple to keep cost down.

I have tried to look to see if there is anything similar, and the closest I have found is this:
https://amzn.eu/d/6QoAUqD

However, that has a magnetic body, which I am not interested in, and the recording is toggled on and off with a switch. I need a big button.

Nothing clandestine about this device at all - happy for any colour, and need it to have that flashing light also.

So, any links on where I can get such a thing, or how I would go about getting something made?

Thanks

Edit to add:
Something like this, but with a big push button would be ideal
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284066548290?chn=ps&amp...

Edited by Wing Commander on Wednesday 27th March 16:07

[ATG]

What purpose does the prototype itself serve? E.g. are you going to show it to potential investors? Or do you just want to be convinced the thing can be built? Or do you want to use it to test usability? Or ... ?

Reason I ask is because you could easily build a working prototype the size of a cigarette package for a few quid, and you could mock up a dummy device the size of a 20p coin for a few quid. But a working device the size of a 20p coin will cost a small fortune.

[Wing Commander]

ATG said:

What purpose does the prototype itself serve? E.g. are you going to show it to potential investors? Or do you just want to be convinced the thing can be built? Or do you want to use it to test usability? Or ... ?

Reason I ask is because you could easily build a working prototype the size of a cigarette package for a few quid, and you could mock up a dummy device the size of a 20p coin for a few quid. But a working device the size of a 20p coin will cost a small fortune.

This is basically a fun project I have that I would like to be able to monetise.

I would be my first customer, for sure, so to have a working prototype the right size and functionality is the main aim.

I was hoping there might be some sort of 3D printing/prototyping service which could do simple manufaturing like this. The electonics seem simple enough, as does the hardware. I am willing to forgo the wireless connectivity on the prototype.

Am thinking the electronics would be a circuitboard with microphone, battery, flashing light, toggle button, storage
Hardware I could fudge together some form of housing on my 3D printer

[LooneyTunes]

Wing Commander said:

Am thinking the electronics would be a circuitboard with microphone, battery, flashing light, toggle button, storage
Hardware I could fudge together some form of housing on my 3D printer

Do you have the actual (fully working/documented) design or just requirements?

There are many small PCB fabricators that do low volume prototyping but if you need them to actually design the device then, unless it is very simple indeed and requires no software, you could be looking at proper money (and time to sort out IP ownership etc).

[ATG]

There's really nothing simple about miniaturising something like that to the size of a 20p coin. Make it ten times bigger (in all directions) and you're in the territory of using a general purpose microcontroller that might do Bluetooth and A2D natively, and you'll have room for a battery, charging circuit, microphone and amp. That could be a fun project to learn how to use an Arduino or similar, but as a product it obviously doesn't stack up against a mobile phone.

To get that lot down to the size of a 20p coin, you're talking about designing and manufacturing your own chips and I doubt a suitable battery exists. You're talking about making a device that is an awful lot smaller than an in-ear radio earpiece like an airpod. Those devices have pretty much all the bits you need. I wonder if anyone builds an open-source earbud that you could flash with your own software? That might get you in the right ballpark, albeit still a lot bigger than a 20p coin, but tiny by any normal standards.

[Mr Pointy]

What is the intended use of this device - why do you think people will buy it?

Why does it need to be very small but button activated & with a flashing red light?

[Wing Commander]

LooneyTunes said:

Do you have the actual (fully working/documented) design or just requirements?

There are many small PCB fabricators that do low volume prototyping but if you need them to actually design the device then, unless it is very simple indeed and requires no software, you could be looking at proper money (and time to sort out IP ownership etc).

I've got nothing at all, beyond the idea in my head at this stage

[Wing Commander]

Mr Pointy said:

What is the intended use of this device - why do you think people will buy it?

Why does it need to be very small but button activated & with a flashing red light?

The only bit that I don't really want to mention at this stage is the use-case for this device as, if I can get something made, I want to be able to have a head start on the marketing and market share etc. Dare say that if it was popular, it would be extremely easy for it to be replicated and its a race to the bottom then.

I think people would buy it because I would buy it. I am my first customer, and if I ended up being the only customer, I wouldn't be unhappy about that, although that is why I wouldn't want to be investing huge sums to get a prototype sorted.

In terms of size, I realise I wasn't desperately clear. The cross section wants to be about a 20p/£1 coin size, but it can be thicker. The thickest I would want to go would be 2 lots of £1 coin stacked up.

The little light is to just have a very simple way of knowing the device is on and recording.

The push button is a super simple way of activating it, and the use-case dictates this rather than voice-activation or a switch

This device would be perfect for a prototype, if only it had a push button rather than a switch
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnetic-Activated-Record...

[LooneyTunes]

Wing Commander said:

LooneyTunes said:

Do you have the actual (fully working/documented) design or just requirements?

There are many small PCB fabricators that do low volume prototyping but if you need them to actually design the device then, unless it is very simple indeed and requires no software, you could be looking at proper money (and time to sort out IP ownership etc).

I've got nothing at all, beyond the idea in my head at this stage

In that case, assuming you can't DIY the tech side of things, typically what you'd do is develop a detailed specification and look at commissioning two prototypes + further development.

1) A functional device that doesn't yet conform to your packaging requirements but can be knocked up relatively cheaply (depending on how cautious you are, you may not even reveal the packaging constraints/ambitions at that stage); and
2) A packaging concept (possible two, a preferred and an acceptable). Your 3D printing might well suffice initially and allow you to have discussions about material choices/tooling costs for higher volume production.

You'd then look at additional design work to look to get 1 redesigned to fit 2.

For small devices you're often looking at multi-later PCB and small surface mount components. If they don't get you small enough, it's into the world of custom ASICs/modules, but that gets expensive quickly.

Any software can get expensive if complex.

Wing Commander said:

The only bit that I don't really want to mention at this stage is the use-case for this device as, if I can get something made, I want to be able to have a head start on the marketing and market share etc. Dare say that if it was popular, it would be extremely easy for it to be replicated and its a race to the bottom then./quote]

It can be *very* quick and easy to replicate devices these days. Be very careful about who has access to production-ready designs.

It's a long time since I was involved in any physical devices, but there always used to be a decent number of small design/prototyping outfits dotted around the country.

[Ean218]

Wing Commander said:

This device would be perfect for a prototype, if only it had a push button rather than a switch
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnetic-Activated-Record...

Surely the simplest way to get a working prototype is to buy a couple of these, take them apart, swap the switch for a push button, add a light, chuck the magnet and make a suitable case with your 3D printer?

[FMOB]

I think you would end up designing custom silicon to get all that in in your suggested foot print.

You need to make a prototype and get something working as a proof of concept so you know it can be done then start thinking about the size problem.

You haven't mentioned recording time and quality, battery life, charging time.

And don't under-estimate the impact of sticking a radio or two in it, at the proposed foot print that is a chip or two plus some passives and an antenna taking up valuable board real estate.

Once it has all been miniaturised, some poor sod has actually got to assemble and test it, more akin to assembling a wrist watch.

Might be easier applying to MI6 and asking Q to make one for you.

[BigBen]

FMOB said:

I think you would end up designing custom silicon to get all that in in your suggested foot print.

You need to make a prototype and get something working as a proof of concept so you know it can be done then start thinking about the size problem.

You haven't mentioned recording time and quality, battery life, charging time.

And don't under-estimate the impact of sticking a radio or two in it, at the proposed foot print that is a chip or two plus some passives and an antenna taking up valuable board real estate.

Once it has all been miniaturised, some poor sod has actually got to assemble and test it, more akin to assembling a wrist watch.

Might be easier applying to MI6 and asking Q to make one for you.

I think it would all fit except the batteries.

What about going to a microphone only with a button / flashing light which Bluetooths to a phone and does the recording.