Renewing Ltd co owned Tesla (or not) Struggling w/ Man maths
Discussion
Back in 2019 I bought a Tesla Model 3 Performance through my Ltd. co. It's now all paid for and is a company asset. I claim the running costs (MOT, Tyres, Consumables, Insurance) through the Ltd co and pay the BIK, which is currently 2%
Purchase cost ~£56K
Current WBAC value: ~£20K
I can't seem to do the maths properly and work out what the true cost of chopping it in for a new one will be.
Assume BIK & running costs will be similar on new v.s old. The new one would clearly be worth a bit more to me as a) it's shinier & b) has a warranty, whereas the old car's warranty has expired.
It is it worth the company selling it (which will increase company revenue by £20k), then buying a new one for £60k? thereby reducing my profits from circa. £140k to £100k?
If I renew- I'm saving a chunk on corporation tax, but I'm also spending money to acquire a new car.
Any help with the maths would be much appreciated. Assume I already trying to minimise corp tax by maxing my pension, claiming other business expenses etc.
Purchase cost ~£56K
Current WBAC value: ~£20K
I can't seem to do the maths properly and work out what the true cost of chopping it in for a new one will be.
Assume BIK & running costs will be similar on new v.s old. The new one would clearly be worth a bit more to me as a) it's shinier & b) has a warranty, whereas the old car's warranty has expired.
It is it worth the company selling it (which will increase company revenue by £20k), then buying a new one for £60k? thereby reducing my profits from circa. £140k to £100k?
If I renew- I'm saving a chunk on corporation tax, but I'm also spending money to acquire a new car.
Any help with the maths would be much appreciated. Assume I already trying to minimise corp tax by maxing my pension, claiming other business expenses etc.
GuigiaroBertone said:
Back in 2019 I bought a Tesla Model 3 Performance through my Ltd. co. It's now all paid for and is a company asset. I claim the running costs (MOT, Tyres, Consumables, Insurance) through the Ltd co and pay the BIK, which is currently 2%
Purchase cost ~£56K
Current WBAC value: ~£20K
I can't seem to do the maths properly and work out what the true cost of chopping it in for a new one will be.
Assume BIK & running costs will be similar on new v.s old. The new one would clearly be worth a bit more to me as a) it's shinier & b) has a warranty, whereas the old car's warranty has expired.
It is it worth the company selling it (which will increase company revenue by £20k), then buying a new one for £60k? thereby reducing my profits from circa. £140k to £100k?
If I renew- I'm saving a chunk on corporation tax, but I'm also spending money to acquire a new car.
Any help with the maths would be much appreciated. Assume I already trying to minimise corp tax by maxing my pension, claiming other business expenses etc.
When the company sells it it is not 'revenue', it is income from the sale of a fixed asset. The book value is then used to find the amount chargeable to the P&L account.Purchase cost ~£56K
Current WBAC value: ~£20K
I can't seem to do the maths properly and work out what the true cost of chopping it in for a new one will be.
Assume BIK & running costs will be similar on new v.s old. The new one would clearly be worth a bit more to me as a) it's shinier & b) has a warranty, whereas the old car's warranty has expired.
It is it worth the company selling it (which will increase company revenue by £20k), then buying a new one for £60k? thereby reducing my profits from circa. £140k to £100k?
If I renew- I'm saving a chunk on corporation tax, but I'm also spending money to acquire a new car.
Any help with the maths would be much appreciated. Assume I already trying to minimise corp tax by maxing my pension, claiming other business expenses etc.
Similarly the purchase of a new one (for cash) is not a charge to the P&L, it is purchase of a fixed asset.
Your accountant should be able to advise on the tax treatment of a BEV.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, but that didn't really help apart from clear up a couple of financial technicalities.
Whatever we call it, it's roughly £20k coming in from the sale of a fixed asset and roughly £60k out to acquire a replacement fixed asset- so it's a £40k drop in "profits" upon which the company pays corporation tax.
I guess I'm saving corp tax somewhere between 19% & 25%% of £40k - i.e. up to £10k in Corp tax.
So the net cost to the company to renew the asset is ~£30k.
(£60k-£20k)-£10k = £30k
All other running costs are roughly equal, except the company slightly benefits from a new car with a new warranty and no MOT costs for 3 years.
Yes- I'll talk to my accountant as she knows my finances in detail, but I was looking for real-world examples from people who are in a similar situation: I'm sure there are people on here who run Ltd. companies and have renewed their EV. and done the maths to justify the purchase (or not).
Thanks again.
Whatever we call it, it's roughly £20k coming in from the sale of a fixed asset and roughly £60k out to acquire a replacement fixed asset- so it's a £40k drop in "profits" upon which the company pays corporation tax.
I guess I'm saving corp tax somewhere between 19% & 25%% of £40k - i.e. up to £10k in Corp tax.
So the net cost to the company to renew the asset is ~£30k.
(£60k-£20k)-£10k = £30k
All other running costs are roughly equal, except the company slightly benefits from a new car with a new warranty and no MOT costs for 3 years.
Yes- I'll talk to my accountant as she knows my finances in detail, but I was looking for real-world examples from people who are in a similar situation: I'm sure there are people on here who run Ltd. companies and have renewed their EV. and done the maths to justify the purchase (or not).
Thanks again.
Edited by GuigiaroBertone on Wednesday 13th March 20:44
I think you've pretty much summed it up.
I did similar two-and-a-half years ago with an Ioniq 5. If it had not plunged in value (like all BEVs) so much I would consider chopping it in for a new one on its third birthday. As it is I'll hang on to it for a couple more years rather than crystallize the loss and start a whole new deprecitation nightmare.
It is galling paying corporation tax before exploring all the alternatives though.
I did similar two-and-a-half years ago with an Ioniq 5. If it had not plunged in value (like all BEVs) so much I would consider chopping it in for a new one on its third birthday. As it is I'll hang on to it for a couple more years rather than crystallize the loss and start a whole new deprecitation nightmare.
It is galling paying corporation tax before exploring all the alternatives though.
It looks like you’re mixing cash flow with profits.
As mentioned earlier, you need to know the current book value of the asset and how much has been claimed through your capital allowances. Without that, we’ll be stabbing in the dark.
Typically a leased vehicle is at least comparable to out right purchase because you can put the full monthly cost through the P&L to reduce corporation tax for each year you’re paying for the vehicle. An asset owned by the company is treated differently, as it appears on the balance sheet rather than the P&L.
As mentioned earlier, you need to know the current book value of the asset and how much has been claimed through your capital allowances. Without that, we’ll be stabbing in the dark.
Typically a leased vehicle is at least comparable to out right purchase because you can put the full monthly cost through the P&L to reduce corporation tax for each year you’re paying for the vehicle. An asset owned by the company is treated differently, as it appears on the balance sheet rather than the P&L.
My Ioniq 5 was £42,000 brand new. The business bought it and corporation tax liable profits for the year were reduced by 100% of the cost. That’s about an £8,000 saving on what would have happened if I’d have done nothing else with that money.
It’s a shame the subsequent depreciation has more than cancelled that saving out, but hey-ho.
It’s a shame the subsequent depreciation has more than cancelled that saving out, but hey-ho.
Silverage said:
Jockman said:
Just do a business contract hire on the new one maybe??
That doesn’t reduce the corporation tax exposed profits enough though.Leasing also gives you a guaranteed rate of 'depreciation' compared to buying, which could be a bonus, depends on your risk appetite and views on future value.
grumbas said:
Silverage said:
Jockman said:
Just do a business contract hire on the new one maybe??
That doesn’t reduce the corporation tax exposed profits enough though.Leasing also gives you a guaranteed rate of 'depreciation' compared to buying, which could be a bonus, depends on your risk appetite and views on future value.
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