How much did you pay for your website?

[Bloxxcreative]

I'm in the process of launching a website design and development business aimed at small businesses.

Just wondered if anyone's willing to share the cost of their business website so I can get a gauge for where to pitch my initial estimates to not scare off potential clients. Initial thoughts talking to my designer and developer are around 3-3.5k for a bespoke 3 to 4 page website with out too much complexity and a bit of a rebrand.

[Matt_E46]

Ours was approx. £3k build, plus £1k of copy and about a £1k’s worth of SEO. That doesn’t include for staff overheads to manage the process and keep it maintained and updated.

[akirk]

We have been running such a business for c. 20 years…
what do you want to earn per hour?
what are your overheads?
how long will it take you?

If you are providing a service to startups / small businesses then that is expensive, most simply want it to look professional and to have their images / colours / logo / copy…

depending on your chosen tech solution, a wordpress site and template can be set up in < 1 hour and content might take c. 1 hour per page - so you are looking at a maximum of 5 hours for a 4 page site - at £3.5k you are charging £700 p/h

alternatives exist in terms of tech and clearly some sites will have other complexities…
but price for 3-4 pages of simple content should be nowhere near £3k - £3.5k (of course if you can get away with charging that you will be very successful financially!)

[DSLiverpool]

£500 for what you describe.

[Bloxxcreative]

Thanks all for posting so far. We'd be charging by the hour and our rates should be good, certainly less than most agencies in the South West, but more than a one person outfit.

I'll apso admit I'm not close to what wordpress can do and we'd potentially up again at this end of the market so will do a bit more research there. That said, I possible downplayed it when I said what we'd be doing and there's a heavy focus on behavioural science inspired design, copy and UX.

Cheers

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

most web agencies I've dealt with recently are charging 10-12k for a simplish e-commerce site.

The comedy element is the time taken to get the site live with norms of 4-6 months. But I guess you gotta make it look complicated and difficult if you are charging that kind of money.

[akirk]

Bloxxcreative said:

Thanks all for posting so far. We'd be charging by the hour and our rates should be good, certainly less than most agencies in the South West, but more than a one person outfit.

I'll apso admit I'm not close to what wordpress can do and we'd potentially up again at this end of the market so will do a bit more research there. That said, I possible downplayed it when I said what we'd be doing and there's a heavy focus on behavioural science inspired design, copy and UX.

Cheers

I am not sure from your initial comments what your background and experience is in this market - nor exactly who you are targetting, but you mention small businesses... I am sure that there are some small businesses who want a detailed and sophisticated process in terms of their website, but our experience would suggest that the vast majority really don't. The common trend with small businesses is:
- no real understanding of why they need a website (i.e. how it will help develop their business)
- a desire for it to 'look pretty'
- an overt focus on colour / logos / photos / brand v. usability / client needs / etc.

your comments above regarding behavioural science inspired design / copy / UX are all things which in our experience tend to be more relevant to bigger and more established businesses, so I wonder whether there is a disconnect there with your reference to small business?

If you are thinking of a process which spends time analysing their business and clients and then building design / copy / UX around that (which does sound like the perfect way to build a website) then that would explain the need to charge much more, and would carry higher costs - but I don't see that being the appropriate offering for most small business.

Wordpress tends to be an easy shorthand way of referencing a particular web company approach to building websites (for clarity, it is not how we tend to operate - our clients generally come to us for more specialist solutions) - so it could equally be Wix / Squarespace / etc. The ease of installation (e.g. it comes as a plugin for hosting solutions such as cPanel) and the vast offering in terms of templates means that you can have a solution up and running very quickly and very cheaply. For basic websites it can work very well and as above you can install and set it up for sub £1k costs and still make a good hourly rate - I don't see that as competing at any point in the same market as the more detailed approach you reference - totally different business needs. Almost no-one building wordpress sites will be providing bespoke artwork and design boards pre building the site - they will 99.9% of the time give a choice of commercial or free templates...

Wordpress tends to be the preserve of the web companies who don't have the coding experience to build bespoke systems and they tend to be web companies at a small scale providing a service to small businesses.

I think it is worth considering a bit more around your offering v. the market need - it maybe something you have already done in detail, but there are just a couple of things you mention which raise these questions - and especially your reference to small businesses...

[Redarress]

akirk said:

We have been running such a business for c. 20 years…
what do you want to earn per hour?
what are your overheads?
how long will it take you?

If you are providing a service to startups / small businesses then that is expensive, most simply want it to look professional and to have their images / colours / logo / copy…

depending on your chosen tech solution, a wordpress site and template can be set up in < 1 hour and content might take c. 1 hour per page - so you are looking at a maximum of 5 hours for a 4 page site - at £3.5k you are charging £700 p/h

alternatives exist in terms of tech and clearly some sites will have other complexities…
but price for 3-4 pages of simple content should be nowhere near £3k - £3.5k (of course if you can get away with charging that you will be very successful financially!)

Akirk is being a bit of a grumpy pants this morning ................ Totally respect his views though. Yes with experience you can roll out a Wordpress based website quite quickly depending on whether you use a page builder etc. But if you want to include sleek,slim design and on-page SEO features it takes quite a bit longer. As with anything attention to detail is key and can be be very time consuming.

As with anything we dive deep into what the customer requires from their website and their digital marketing . We then offer the correct tools to roll out a eye catching, fast, responsive and easy to maintain solution. It could be Wordpress or Shopify as there is very little functionality that cannot be done with either /both of them. Alasdair (AKirk) prefers Shopify which is totally understandable we prefer Wordpress or Shopify

We are fortunate that we come from a coding background so manipulation of those platforms to perform is our daily bread.

Personally I think the figures your are suggesting that you quote for a small business website are quite high.

[BoRED S2upid]

DSLiverpool said:

£500 for what you describe.

This. Ours was £300 for a refresh plus £150 a year we can edit it ourselves. No sakes or anything just 3/4 pages of what we offer and contact details.

[durbster]

It's a while since I was involved in client work like this but are web developers really still costing websites in terms of the number of pages?

It has never made any sense to me. The number of pages has never had any relevance whatsoever to cost. It's what goes on the pages that costs money.

I mean, in those terms google.com is a 2-page website.

[akirk]

Redarress said:

akirk said:

We have been running such a business for c. 20 years…
what do you want to earn per hour?
what are your overheads?
how long will it take you?

If you are providing a service to startups / small businesses then that is expensive, most simply want it to look professional and to have their images / colours / logo / copy…

depending on your chosen tech solution, a wordpress site and template can be set up in < 1 hour and content might take c. 1 hour per page - so you are looking at a maximum of 5 hours for a 4 page site - at £3.5k you are charging £700 p/h

alternatives exist in terms of tech and clearly some sites will have other complexities…
but price for 3-4 pages of simple content should be nowhere near £3k - £3.5k (of course if you can get away with charging that you will be very successful financially!)

Akirk is being a bit of a grumpy pants this morning ................ Totally respect his views though. Yes with experience you can roll out a Wordpress based website quite quickly depending on whether you use a page builder etc. But if you want to include sleek,slim design and on-page SEO features it takes quite a bit longer. As with anything attention to detail is key and can be be very time consuming.

As with anything we dive deep into what the customer requires from their website and their digital marketing . We then offer the correct tools to roll out a eye catching, fast, responsive and easy to maintain solution. It could be Wordpress or Shopify as there is very little functionality that cannot be done with either /both of them. Alasdair (AKirk) prefers Shopify which is totally understandable we prefer Wordpress or Shopify

We are fortunate that we come from a coding background so manipulation of those platforms to perform is our daily bread.

Personally I think the figures your are suggesting that you quote for a small business website are quite high.

Nothing grumpy about my response (and it was posted last night ) Also not sure why you think I prefer Shopify? Slightly strange comparison - a 3-4 page website for a small business is unlikely to be using Shopify as a solution as that is for eCommerce and most 3-4 page websites tend not to be eCommerce. Wordpress has its place and while it is rarely a solution we would choose, it works well for many people.

A lot of small businesses will be happy with having an online presence and would use wordpress SEO tools for that need (I know, I know - just saying! ) and all they are interested in is the look and feel and having up to date content - they are more often interested in lower costs than perfect solutions... so WordPress will often work for them... We tend to build more bespoke solutions and a lot of our work is in process based solutions, so it is most likely to be based around a bespoke CMS and admin system etc. Where we do build simpler sites they tend to be based on a requirement for simple, quick, cheap (while still being professional etc!)

Point being made to the OP was simply - make sure there is no disconnect between what he is looking to set up (which sounds like a great idea) with his stated market of small businesses which might not be the best market fit. There are not many small businesses who would be expecting to pay £3k - £3.5k for a 3-4 page simple website...

[Shnozz]

DSLiverpool said:

£500 for what you describe.

I’d appreciate a PM for who you use.

[Redarress]

akirk said:

Nothing grumpy about my response (and it was posted last night ) Also not sure why you think I prefer Shopify? Slightly strange comparison - a 3-4 page website for a small business is unlikely to be using Shopify as a solution as that is for eCommerce and most 3-4 page websites tend not to be eCommerce. Wordpress has its place and while it is rarely a solution we would choose, it works well for many people.

A lot of small businesses will be happy with having an online presence and would use wordpress SEO tools for that need (I know, I know - just saying! ) and all they are interested in is the look and feel and having up to date content - they are more often interested in lower costs than perfect solutions... so WordPress will often work for them... We tend to build more bespoke solutions and a lot of our work is in process based solutions, so it is most likely to be based around a bespoke CMS and admin system etc. Where we do build simpler sites they tend to be based on a requirement for simple, quick, cheap (while still being professional etc!)

Point being made to the OP was simply - make sure there is no disconnect between what he is looking to set up (which sounds like a great idea) with his stated market of small businesses which might not be the best market fit. There are not many small businesses who would be expecting to pay £3k - £3.5k for a 3-4 page simple website...

As usual a very logical response to my post and total agree his price expectation, in my opinion, are on the high side. My point is that to get a good well built Wordpress site takes more than a few hour to get up especially if the artwork/images need to be created. Lets hope he can achieve them so we can all put our prices up .

[akirk]

Redarress said:

My point is that to get a good well built Wordpress site takes more than a few hour to get up especially if the artwork/images need to be created. Lets hope he can achieve them so we can all put our prices up .

Agreed!
I was more making the point though that the average small business will go to any local 'web developer' and get a basic wordpress website built for that kind of time / money. Those solutions are undoubtedly not putting in the thoroughness you would in providing a solution - but most small businesses don't have the knowledge or experience to distinguish, so they choose on price - and if the website looks smart and has their logo / photos in there then they are often happy - and will also recommend that company to others...

I am a member of the local facebook business group which is quite extensive and often has posts asking for a website from small businesses - there is a handful of companies who immediately post back basically offering to do it for sub £500 - and to be fair 4-6 of those a month and you are pulling in £2k - £3k a month either as a side-gig or as your income...

[mikef]

It also depends what you mean by "website". That could mean a whole range of things from a few static pages with some clipart, stock photos and off-the-shelf framework to a reactive site with
- original artwork
- original quality photography (premises, products, projects, themes)
- visual appeal (not what techies are usually good at)
- a hosted CMS (content management system) that lets the client constantly refine their messaging
- customer data capture and secure storage
- online feedback and ideally chat with secure storage
- a maintainable products/offerings database with text, uploadable photos, complex pricing (shipping, volume discounts, introductory offers, etc), PDF product sheets
- an online store
- GDPR-compliant storage if any of the above are involved
- high-availability (preferably in AWS/GCP/Azure)
- well-thought and and tested customer journeys, CX and UX (again, not what techies are usually good at)
- customer ownership of all IP and assets

At one end of the spectrum, you could be looking at a few hundred quid and probably get it done in Asia for less; at the other end it's reasonable to expect many thousands, assuming that there is a business proposition that shows how that investment pays for itself

[BoRED S2upid]

DSLiverpool said:

£500 for what you describe.

This. Ours was £300 for a refresh plus £150 a year we can edit it ourselves. No sakes or anything just 3/4 pages of what we offer and contact details.

[akirk]

mikef said:

It also depends what you mean by "website". That could mean a whole range of things from a few static pages with some clipart, stock photos and off-the-shelf framework to a reactive site with
- original artwork
- original quality photography (premises, products, projects, themes)
- visual appeal (not what techies are usually good at)
- a hosted CMS (content management system) that lets the client constantly refine their messaging
- customer data capture and secure storage
- online feedback and ideally chat with secure storage
- a maintainable products/offerings database with text, uploadable photos, complex pricing (shipping, volume discounts, introductory offers, etc), PDF product sheets
- an online store
- GDPR-compliant storage if any of the above are involved
- high-availability (preferably in AWS/GCP/Azure)
- well-thought and and tested customer journeys, CX and UX (again, not what techies are usually good at)
- customer ownership of all IP and assets

At one end of the spectrum, you could be looking at a few hundred quid and probably get it done in Asia for less; at the other end it's reasonable to expect many thousands, assuming that there is a business proposition that shows how that investment pays for itself

valid points... but I am not sure it is quite what the OP was suggesting with:

Bloxxcreative said:

aimed at small businesses.

and

Bloxxcreative said:

bespoke 3 to 4 page website with out too much complexity and a bit of a rebrand.

[mikef]

akirk said:

mikef said:

It also depends what you mean by "website". That could mean a whole range of things from a few static pages with some clipart, stock photos and off-the-shelf framework to a reactive site with
- original artwork
- original quality photography (premises, products, projects, themes)
- visual appeal (not what techies are usually good at)
- a hosted CMS (content management system) that lets the client constantly refine their messaging
- customer data capture and secure storage
- online feedback and ideally chat with secure storage
- a maintainable products/offerings database with text, uploadable photos, complex pricing (shipping, volume discounts, introductory offers, etc), PDF product sheets
- an online store
- GDPR-compliant storage if any of the above are involved
- high-availability (preferably in AWS/GCP/Azure)
- well-thought and and tested customer journeys, CX and UX (again, not what techies are usually good at)
- customer ownership of all IP and assets

At one end of the spectrum, you could be looking at a few hundred quid and probably get it done in Asia for less; at the other end it's reasonable to expect many thousands, assuming that there is a business proposition that shows how that investment pays for itself

valid points... but I am not sure it is quite what the OP was suggesting with:

Bloxxcreative said:

aimed at small businesses.

and

Bloxxcreative said:

bespoke 3 to 4 page website with out too much complexity and a bit of a rebrand.

Exactly. What the OP has said is not at the many thousands end of the spectrum, imho

[DSLiverpool]

Shnozz said:

DSLiverpool said:

£500 for what you describe.

I’d appreciate a PM for who you use.

Guy in India does all our wordpress, you’ll need to tell him exactly what you want.
He did this one for me www.davesolomon.solutions which was about £1200 / no SEO or anything which you don’t get at the bottom end but it’s perfect for what I need as the traffic comes from tiktok

[Bloxxcreative]

akirk said:

I am not sure from your initial comments what your background and experience is in this market - nor exactly who you are targetting, but you mention small businesses... I am sure that there are some small businesses who want a detailed and sophisticated process in terms of their website, but our experience would suggest that the vast majority really don't. The common trend with small businesses is:
- no real understanding of why they need a website (i.e. how it will help develop their business)
- a desire for it to 'look pretty'
- an overt focus on colour / logos / photos / brand v. usability / client needs / etc.

your comments above regarding behavioural science inspired design / copy / UX are all things which in our experience tend to be more relevant to bigger and more established businesses, so I wonder whether there is a disconnect there with your reference to small business?

If you are thinking of a process which spends time analysing their business and clients and then building design / copy / UX around that (which does sound like the perfect way to build a website) then that would explain the need to charge much more, and would carry higher costs - but I don't see that being the appropriate offering for most small business.

Wordpress tends to be an easy shorthand way of referencing a particular web company approach to building websites (for clarity, it is not how we tend to operate - our clients generally come to us for more specialist solutions) - so it could equally be Wix / Squarespace / etc. The ease of installation (e.g. it comes as a plugin for hosting solutions such as cPanel) and the vast offering in terms of templates means that you can have a solution up and running very quickly and very cheaply. For basic websites it can work very well and as above you can install and set it up for sub £1k costs and still make a good hourly rate - I don't see that as competing at any point in the same market as the more detailed approach you reference - totally different business needs. Almost no-one building wordpress sites will be providing bespoke artwork and design boards pre building the site - they will 99.9% of the time give a choice of commercial or free templates...

Wordpress tends to be the preserve of the web companies who don't have the coding experience to build bespoke systems and they tend to be web companies at a small scale providing a service to small businesses.

I think it is worth considering a bit more around your offering v. the market need - it maybe something you have already done in detail, but there are just a couple of things you mention which raise these questions - and especially your reference to small businesses...

Hi all - thanks for your feedback on this to date, must admit I didn't expect such thorough or provoking replies. Firstly, you'll all probably gathering Web Development isn't my background although I could possibly blag my way through a very high level chat with some who's is - it's been a steep learning curve! My background is within branding, client management, direct mail delivery and copywriting, throughout my career of 15+ years and currently deliver direct mail comms for a Bank and the NHS, alongside consult as needed with a small be-sci business. I'm starting this as my brother who is a Dev was made redundant and want's to see if he can make it alone, and a good friend who's my graphic designer wants to make some additional money to supplement his life at the moment. I like a challenge and while they are both excellent in their fields, lack the people skills to approach and manage everything that comes with the client side of things.

I think my use of 'small' business has probably been too vague a word to use here and very open to interpretation. My target market would be 'small' businesses - but ones with potential to grow and in certain market sectors that possibly under utilise their web presence. I'm not thinking of the casual side gig small businesses, consultants, or, any that are in retail (some has already said Shopify have this nailed) but there will no doubt be some tinkering with that as I start approaching companies and testing the water. That said, WordPress may still be an answer to the types of businesses I would be looking at so I think I'll need to look at my 'estimate' being less intimidating, and I guess there may still be options if they want us to work with a 3rd party and just work on the branding & copy....

Sounds like it may also be a bit of an educational journey for customers too given your trends with small businesses.

I think to a point yourself and MikeF made around what tech people are bad at, with the talent I'd be working with, we really would be trying to bridge the gap between what techies are great at, what designers are great at, and overlay that with some be-sci inspired copy/UX and a nice transactional experience. Certainly not the average £500 site by someone overseas so I think there's some justification in the rates (think I mentioned earlier they'd still be less than most agencies given minimal overheads we have).

Have a nice evening all.

Edited by Bloxxcreative on Monday 23 October 19:03