Planning constraint 'no industrial process'

[wickedtopspeed]

Hello,
Be very grateful for the knowledge and experience on here again.

I own a small industrial park. One of the tenants does high end car valeting, preparation, detailing etc.

As part of the process he washes the cars outside his unit (approx 5 a week) a wash takes 1-2 hours.

The residential neighbours have complained to the council, and we have received an enforcement notice, stating
"no industrial process as defined in the Town and Country Planning (use classes) order 1987 as amended, shall be carried on at the premises outside of the buildings"

The council cannot even decide if by washing a car/preparing it for detailing qualifies as an industrial process - and the definition I have found can be read several different ways.

Does anyone have any experience of this or similar, or can guide me down a strong argument route, as the tenant is a good, hard working guy that I am keen to support.

Many thanks for your help in advance.

[Dave.]

Can he wash them inside, using something like this to contain the water?

https://www.chemicalguys.eu/en/chemicalguys-eu-pro...

[wickedtopspeed]

Possibly - but his unit has 3-4 other cars in that are dry and being detailed/polished/having protective coatings fitted - so risk is would get them wet.

Would prefer to have a planning argument that is valid.

Still can't see that washing a car is an 'industrial process'

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

It's not industrial at all is it?

Industrial refers to industry.

Industry can be defined as "economic activity concerned with the processing of raw materials and manufacture of goods in factories."

Well, that's the argument I'd use anyways.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

I tried to read said act. No help, but this section made me chuckle:

Boiling blood, chitterlings, nettlings or soap.
Boiling, burning, grinding or steaming bones.
Boiling or cleaning tripe.
Breeding maggots from putrescible animal matter.
Cleaning, adapting or treating animal hair.

[Dave.]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

I tried to read said act. No help, but this section made me chuckle:

Boiling blood, chitterlings, nettlings or soap.
Boiling, burning, grinding or steaming bones.
Boiling or cleaning tripe.
Breeding maggots from putrescible animal matter.
Cleaning, adapting or treating animal hair.

The thread for "Saw X" is that way >>>

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Dave. said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

I tried to read said act. No help, but this section made me chuckle:

Boiling blood, chitterlings, nettlings or soap.
Boiling, burning, grinding or steaming bones.
Boiling or cleaning tripe.
Breeding maggots from putrescible animal matter.
Cleaning, adapting or treating animal hair.

The thread for "Saw X" is that way >>>

[dudleybloke]

They allow hand car washes in non-industrial areas, some are on residential streets, so I would argue that its not an industrial task.

[wickedtopspeed]

The council cannot even decide if it is an 'Industrial Process'.

To cloud the matters more I think it has come to the council's attention due to neighbours complaints due to noise. The tenant now has put the jet washer inside the building, so noise is dramatically reduced, so the only activity outside is by hand (operating trigger on jet wash, using sponge to soap the car)

Thanks for help once again

[Chamon_Lee]

I can understand the complaint but I also understand the business owners side.

In this situations I would be build some sort of cheap car port and have the pressure washer mostly surrounded by noise insulating panels and a really long hose.

You could spend the same effort fighting it or the same effort in finding a solution.

[Countdown]

Out of interest isn't it a problem for your tenant rather than you?

[Silvanus]

Countdown said:

Out of interest isn't it a problem for your tenant rather than you?

It's a problem for him if his tenant has to move elsewhere.

[Equus]

wickedtopspeed said:

The council cannot even decide if by washing a car/preparing it for detailing qualifies as an industrial process

On that basis, you might try arguing that the Planning Condition itself is not valid, because the law ( Section 100ZA of the Town and Country Planning Act) states that any Condition must be 'sufficiently precise to make it capable of being complied with and enforced'.

wickedtopspeed said:

...we have received an enforcement notice, stating "no industrial process as defined in the Town and Country Planning (use classes) order 1987 as amended, shall be carried on at the premises outside of the buildings"

Although I assume that this bit is quoted directly from the Planning Condition on the original consent, in which case:

the basic definition given in the Use Classes Order said:

“industrial process” means a process for or incidental to... the altering, repairing, maintaining, ornamenting, finishing, cleaning, washing, packing, canning, adapting for sale, breaking up or demolition of any article....in the course of any trade or business.

In which case, in fairness, it seems clear enough to me and your tenant is bang to rights.

Edited by Equus on Thursday 5th October 12:57

[blue_haddock]

Personally i cannot fathom how a property on an industrial estate is not allowed to do industrial processes!

And to move next to an industrial estate and complain about noise is like buying a house next to an airport and complain about the planes constantly taking off and landing.

[Dave.]

blue_haddock said:

Personally i cannot fathom how a property on an industrial estate is not allowed to do industrial processes!

And to move next to an industrial estate and complain about noise is like buying a house next to an airport and complain about the planes constantly taking off and landing.

They can do what they want inside.

The (probably new) neighbour won't have an issue with anything other than the noise generated, but might know a little about planning, or know someone on a forum (I'm looking at you Equus ) who has guided them on how to eradicate the noise.

Phoning the council and making a noise complaint would drag on for months.... breaking the planning agreement would give a much quicker outcome for the complainer.

[Mr Pointy]

blue_haddock said:

Personally i cannot fathom how a property on an industrial estate is not allowed to do industrial processes!

And to move next to an industrial estate and complain about noise is like buying a house next to an airport and complain about the planes constantly taking off and landing.

Because there are plenty of use cases which aren't industrial - bathroom showrooms, tile shops, Screwfix, double glazing showrooms Big Yellow Box storage etc etc. There's a massive difference between cars & lorries pulling in & out all day & a noisy industrial pressure washer firing off at intervals. If this isn't clamped down on, who knows what someone will try on?

For the tenant it's tough, but for the residents it's their homes where they have no escape from the noise. How do you know the houses weren't there before the industrial estate?

[Equus]

Dave. said:

The (probably new) neighbour won't have an issue with anything other than the noise generated, but might know a little about planning, or know someone on a forum (I'm looking at you Equus ) who has guided them on how to eradicate the noise.

Not guilty in this particular case, yerhonner.

But in any event Planning and Environmental Health teams tend to work quite closely and have a reaosnable understanding of each other's scope, so the likelihood is that if a resident complained to environmental health about the noise, the first thing the EHO would have done is to look at the lawful use of the land, and any restrictions upon it, in Planning terms, then thown it in the direction of the Planning Enforcement Officer.

It's one of the few cases where Local Authorities are well enough joined up for the arse to know what the elbow is doing.