Small business owners and business class flights

[nsa]

London to New York is about £7,500, or nearly four times economy. I'd imagine that is about a month's salary for a lot of people making that flight.

If you're a small business owner, what are the considerations for paying for business class travel? Is there any difference if you as the owner are the one flying?

Just curious; I don't own a small business.

[DaveTheRave87]

Not in that position myself but the arguement is that you're more refreshed getting off the plane and able to get to work quicker.

Obviously, it works out better if you're able to have done £7,500 worth of business by the time the economy passengers have stretched their legs, had a sleep and freshened up.

[Jonathan27]

It is very rarely £7,500. That would only tend to be the price if it was short notice, peak days an no ability to be flexible about airline / airport choice. My standard price for business class to the east coast if around £2.5k - £3k. Still not cheap, but a lot better than £7.5k.

[Mr Pointy]

The client either pays for it or I don't go.

[ettore]

Jonathan27 said:

It is very rarely £7,500. That would only tend to be the price if it was short notice, peak days an no ability to be flexible about airline / airport choice. My standard price for business class to the east coast if around £2.5k - £3k. Still not cheap, but a lot better than £7.5k.

This. I do that trip 8/9 times a year and only ever pay ratecard about once a year, normally at short notice. Rationale for doing it is mainly so you can have a kip on the overnight flight back which essentially preserves a days work.

[MustangGT]

ettore said:

Jonathan27 said:

It is very rarely £7,500. That would only tend to be the price if it was short notice, peak days an no ability to be flexible about airline / airport choice. My standard price for business class to the east coast if around £2.5k - £3k. Still not cheap, but a lot better than £7.5k.

This. I do that trip 8/9 times a year and only ever pay ratecard about once a year, normally at short notice. Rationale for doing it is mainly so you can have a kip on the overnight flight back which essentially preserves a days work.

Exactly. When I was freelancing I had the following rules for flying:

Below 4 hours, economy, above 4 hours, business class.

[StevieBee]

nsa said:

If you're a small business owner, what are the considerations for paying for business class travel? Is there any difference if you as the owner are the one flying?

Generally, I tend to travel Business Class when travelling for work. The justifications are the ability to arrive at either end in a far better state of functionality that would be the case in Economy. I've found that this is increasingly important as you get older as the ability to recover from a long-haul or even mid-haul flight in your 50s is not as it was in your 20s.

I generally kick back on a flight rather than work but when I do, it's normally to do creative stuff; design, edit films, etc. Doing this usually requires a mouse rather than the lap-top touch pad and sometimes, I can use the larger TV display as a second screen which is good for this type of thing. Neither of these you can do in economy or premium economy. If I do work on a flight, the value of the work that I do is normally more than the cost of the Business Class premium.

When working internationally, I'm assigned on a day rate to which is added a Per-Diem (hotel and food) and a flight allowance which at best allows for Premium Economy. However, how I spend that is entirely up to me. As long as the hotel has a functioning shower and half decent wifi, I'm quite happy with three stars or even less (spend very little time in the hotel anyway) so add any surplus from the Per-Diem to cover or contribute towards the Business Class ticket price.

The other consideration is....why not? I work bloody hard, take all the risk and as many business owners are prone to do, pay one's self as little as you can get away with, so when I travel, providing cashflow can afford it, I do sometimes just say 'stuff it, I'm turning left!'.

The only downside is that when I'm travelling with the OH and family, we tend to stick to the rear seats and I'm often found thinking 'I don't belong here'

As mentioned, £7.5k BC to NY is not normal. I'm off to Detroit in a couple of weeks and that cost £2.2k. On average, I've found Business Class premium to be around 3 x Economy depending on airline, route, connections, etc. Do it enough an you get to know how to get the best deals. For example, I worked on a project in the northern part of Cyprus for several years. Last time I went (around a year ago), BA return to Larnaca direct, economy was £620 or £1.2k BC. With Turkish Airlines, I flew into Ercan in the north (thus avoiding a 90 minute and €100 transfer) via Istanbul; £980 BC.

[trickywoo]

nsa said:

If you're a small business owner, what are the considerations for paying for business class travel? Is there any difference if you as the owner are the one flying?
.

I have a similar thought process to a private purchase but mentally discount it for tax write off re the corp tax and also not paying for it out of already taxed income.

It’s around a 40% discount or more.

[cheeky_chops]

Off to Phoenix next month and wouldnt consider business as paying from own ltd company - have gone premium plus for a few £100 more

On a similar note, do people "expense" everything? Coming back via Boston/NYC so guess i need to tick the wholey/exclusively box and have a meeting or 3 lined up.......

[StevieBee]

cheeky_chops said:

On a similar note, do people "expense" everything? Coming back via Boston/NYC so guess i need to tick the wholey/exclusively box and have a meeting or 3 lined up.......

I take the the view that if the primary purpose of the trip is business then the entire cost is a legitimate business expense.

The vagaries of International Business Travel mean that you will often find yourself in a nice, interesting location for a weekend or a day here and there when you might become a tourist and have a look round and chill out. But you wouldn't be there if it weren't for business and is sometimes neither practical or possible to work out what constitutes in-country business expense from in-country 'fun' expense.

I had a five year project in north Cyprus that required frequent trips. Very early on, I realised that it was cheaper to book a package holiday rather than the flight and hotel separately as you would normally for business trips. A quick glance at the company accounts for that period would show what appears to be me having 16 holidays to Cyprus paid for by the company. Never was this flagged up including during the one HMRC review meeting we had back in 2018.

It comes down to reasonable and justifiable expenditure. I think the above examples fall into this category. Three days business in Miami followed by a two week five-star all inclusive stay at a resort nearby wouldn't.

[48k]

nsa said:

London to New York is about £7,500, or nearly four times economy. I'd imagine that is about a month's salary for a lot of people making that flight.

If you're a small business owner, what are the considerations for paying for business class travel? Is there any difference if you as the owner are the one flying?

Just curious; I don't own a small business.

You could go first class for 8 grand. A business return is closer to 3-3.5K if you avoid the holiday season and peak flights. My preference is Virgin Upper rather than flying Business Class (better than business class but not a first class level) which is usually around 1-2K more.

[coetzeeh]

48k said:

nsa said:

London to New York is about £7,500, or nearly four times economy. I'd imagine that is about a month's salary for a lot of people making that flight.

If you're a small business owner, what are the considerations for paying for business class travel? Is there any difference if you as the owner are the one flying?

Just curious; I don't own a small business.

You could go first class for 8 grand. A business return is closer to 3-3.5K if you avoid the holiday season and peak flights. My preference is Virgin Upper rather than flying Business Class (better than business class but not a first class level) which is usually around 1-2K more.

Problem is business trips are usually 3-4 days in my case and the flights are more expensive as a consequence.
Staying for a week at least brings price down materially.

[cheeky_chops]

StevieBee said:

cheeky_chops said:

On a similar note, do people "expense" everything? Coming back via Boston/NYC so guess i need to tick the wholey/exclusively box and have a meeting or 3 lined up.......

I take the the view that if the primary purpose of the trip is business then the entire cost is a legitimate business expense.

The vagaries of International Business Travel mean that you will often find yourself in a nice, interesting location for a weekend or a day here and there when you might become a tourist and have a look round and chill out. But you wouldn't be there if it weren't for business and is sometimes neither practical or possible to work out what constitutes in-country business expense from in-country 'fun' expense.

I had a five year project in north Cyprus that required frequent trips. Very early on, I realised that it was cheaper to book a package holiday rather than the flight and hotel separately as you would normally for business trips. A quick glance at the company accounts for that period would show what appears to be me having 16 holidays to Cyprus paid for by the company. Never was this flagged up including during the one HMRC review meeting we had back in 2018.

It comes down to reasonable and justifiable expenditure. I think the above examples fall into this category. Three days business in Miami followed by a two week five-star all inclusive stay at a resort nearby wouldn't.

Cheers. I think i will expense most stuff but not boston hotel/travel as its a personal choice. One of our suppliers EMEA contact is based in NYC hence coming back via there so that has work element (honest...).

[Wacky Racer]

Last time I flew back from New York, I watched Orson Welles and Joseph Cotton in "The third man" twice, back to back.

At least it passed three hours.

[Whataguy]

You can get the prices down massively if you add a few hours to your journey by not going direct.

Travelling via Dublin/Amsterdam/etc only adds a few hours.

However, they know that you are stuffed on certain routes where it would add a long time to not go direct.

Presumably large companies are paying for those flights, but as a small business I'd struggle to justify more than Premium Economy Plus/etc. for those routes.

[Digga]

Would only ever consider business class for long haul - the difference on a short flight is negligible and not worth it IMHO. On a long flight, if it's over about 8hrs then I think it's almost essential. Any other way is inhumane.

As a rule, I fly as little as possible anyway. Airports are like abbotoirs with shops IME.

[DaveTheRave87]

Whataguy said:

You can get the prices down massively if you add a few hours to your journey by not going direct.

Travelling via Dublin/Amsterdam/etc only adds a few hours.

However, they know that you are stuffed on certain routes where it would add a long time to not go direct.

Presumably large companies are paying for those flights, but as a small business I'd struggle to justify more than Premium Economy Plus/etc. for those routes.

Also worth noting that you can clear US immigration in Ireland. You may have a 2 hour stopover in Dublin but that might only add an hour to your journey as you could be saving an hour not stood in the never ending JFK queue.

[iphonedyou]

Digga said:

Would only ever consider business class for long haul - the difference on a short flight is negligible and not worth it IMHO. On a long flight, if it's over about 8hrs then I think it's almost essential. Any other way is inhumane.

As a rule, I fly as little as possible anyway. Airports are like abbotoirs with shops IME.

And the not killing animals part. Sound analogy otherwise!

[Puzzles]

I had a ding dong with a previous employer as they wanted to put me on a very long flight in economy, over night, and expected me to fly at the weekend and be ready for work Monday morning.

[AB]

If it's me flying, business every time.

If it's anyone else I'll get away with as cheap as possible