Billing for Client email Queries

[Zero Fuchs]

I'm just after some advice on how PH business owners bill for queries and support or if you do at all.

I've a client that I supported a while ago but don't really do much work for these days. However, I keep receiving emails from their engineer for said project. It's probably my faul for not logging time and initially I just wrote it off as it was just 15 minutes here or 20 minutes there; usually going over past documents or answering technical queries. Thing is it's become a more regular occurrence and is almost like I'm training their engineer, who turns out to be pretty green.

Looking on the internet it seems many companies lose millions of hours (combined) due to this kind of thing. So whilst I'm inclined to submit an invoice for technical support, am half expecting to have an annoying conversation with their director over it. For info I still have an open PO for the project, not that it was for this specifically but am thinking this falls under project work.

Any ideas appreciated.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

I'll bet the management of said company don't know what's going on.

Why not ring the management & ask if they want to pay per call or a retainer? (That should shake it up )

A chat prior to rendering an invoice must be the way to go.

[Zero Fuchs]

Thanks. She's well aware as the engineer cc's her on the emails (it's a relatively small company).

But you're probably right. I should put my big boy pants on and brooch the question!

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Zero Fuchs said:

Thanks. She's well aware as the engineer cc's her on the emails (it's a relatively small company).

But you're probably right. I should put my big boy pants on and brooch the question!

Every time.

[Mr Pointy]

Zero Fuchs said:

Thanks. She's well aware as the engineer cc's her on the emails (it's a relatively small company).

But you're probably right. I should put my big boy pants on and brooch the question!

Frame it as a positive though - say you wil provide X hours of support per month for £Y invoiced monthly.

[Equus]

Zero Fuchs said:

It's probably my faul for not logging time and initially I just wrote it off as it was just 15 minutes here or 20 minutes there; usually going over past documents or answering technical queries. Thing is it's become a more regular occurrence and is almost like I'm training their engineer, who turns out to be pretty green.

On projects where this is an issue, rather than logging time for each and every email, I simply total the number of emails for the project each month, both incoming and outgoing (I file all my emails on folders, by project, which makes this easy).

If you need to charge on the basis of emails to or from a particular invididual, you can count them by doing a search against that person's email address in Outlook.

I then charge say 5 or 10 minutes for each

It's swings and roundabouts, of course: some emails take literally seconds to read, consider and file; some take an hour or more of careful fact-checking and composition. But I make it clear on my invoice how the total has been calculated, and I figure that even if you err on the side of caution when guesstimating the average, and undercharge the client as a result, recovering some money for the time spent is better than recovering nothing?

You'll also find that where you do this, the amount of email ping-pong drops dramatically.

Edited by Equus on Friday 30th June 18:38

[deggles]

A while since I've done this but I used to have a monthly retainer which would cover up to 1 day's consultancy/support, then additional hours billed as agreed. FWIW the retainer was actually 2x my day rate but there needs to be recognition of the value of having you 'on call', plus context switching, not just the perceived cost of a few minutes here and there.

[Zero Fuchs]

Equus said:

On projects where this is an issue, rather than logging time for each and every email, I simply total the number of emails for the project each month, both incoming and outgoing (I file all my emails on folders, by project, which makes this easy).

If you need to charge on the basis of emails to or from a particular invididual, you can count them by doing a search against that person's email address in Outlook.

I then charge say 5 or 10 minutes for each

It's swings and roundabouts, of course: some emails take literally seconds to read, consider and file; some take an hour or more of careful fact-checking and composition. But I make it clear on my invoice how the total has been calculated, and I figure that even if you err on the side of caution when guesstimating the average, and undercharge the client as a result, recovering some money for the time spent is better than recovering nothing?

You'll also find that where you do this, the amount of email ping-pong drops dramatically.

Edited by Equus on Friday 30th June 18:38

That's brilliant advice, thanks.

I too suspect that these emails will grind to a halt once money exchanges hands, or I bring it up!

[Slowboathome]

If I were the client I'd not be happy if you invoiced for work that I hadn't agreed to.

I appreciate this isn't helpful, but I would have raised the issue much earlier and explained you'd be charging for any future emails.

[Zero Fuchs]

Slowboathome said:

If I were the client I'd not be happy if you invoiced for work that I hadn't agreed to.

I appreciate this isn't helpful, but I would have raised the issue much earlier and explained you'd be charging for any future emails.

But you'd be happy knowing that one of your employees was using a supplier's valuable time for free? As I said she's been cc'd on all emails so knows exactly the extent of my post project technical support. She could step in at any time to stop her employee but I never hear a peep.

But as above, I'm not going to invoice but raise the question as to how we deal with this. You're absolutely right and these things should be sorted out from the get go but in all honesty I don't mind any of my clients asking the odd question for free. It's just that the regularity is becoming a bit much.

The trouble is, it starts out as a goodwill thing and I firmly believe we have to be human to some extent and be flexible. But when one side starts taking the piss, it changes the business relationship.

[Equus]

Slowboathome said:

If I were the client I'd not be happy if you invoiced for work that I hadn't agreed to.

I appreciate this isn't helpful, but I would have raised the issue much earlier and explained you'd be charging for any future emails.

We have a clause in our terms and conditions to cover this: "Any works instructed or advice sought by the client outside the scope of those scheduled on the fee proposal will be invoiced on an hourly rate basis, unless specific quotes are requested and agreed in advance".

To be fair, we don't usually charge for project-related emails (ie. directly necessary for the purposes of the work that we've been appointed to undertake), and we do warn clients (ie: 'we are happy to respond to these queries, but you will appreciate that they lie outside the scope of the works for which we have been appointed and thus will be chargeable under clause XX.X of our terms and conditions') before we start implementing charging, but sometimes a 'taking the piss' clause of this type is necessary..

It is easy enough to fire a warning shot in advance of implementing charging, simply by telling them that the number and scope of their enquiries is exceeding the level that you can reasonbaly sustain on a good-will basis, and that you will need to start charging under the terms they've already signed up to by accepting the T&C on your original fee proposal.

In my particular business, the usual problem is with domestic/self-build clients who expect us to not only design their house/extension for them, but to explain how everything works and why we have taken every decision that we've taken, as we go along. We sometimes have to point out to them, in the politest terms possible, that they are only paying us to design, seek approvals for, and tender the work they are undertaking, not to give them a crash course in building technology, UK Planning, Building Regulations and contract management.

[Slowboathome]

Zero Fuchs said:

But you'd be happy knowing that one of your employees was using a supplier's valuable time for free? As I said she's been cc'd on all emails so knows exactly the extent of my post project technical support. She could step in at any time to stop her employee but I never hear a peep.

But as above, I'm not going to invoice but raise the question as to how we deal with this. You're absolutely right and these things should be sorted out from the get go but in all honesty I don't mind any of my clients asking the odd question for free. It's just that the regularity is becoming a bit much.

The trouble is, it starts out as a goodwill thing and I firmly believe we have to be human to some extent and be flexible. But when one side starts taking the piss, it changes the business relationship.

Sounds like the director was happy to see how much free advice they could get.

Totally agree with you that it's aggravating and spoils the relationship. And you don't want to be petty in the early stages by charging as soon as they ask a quick question.

I guess I'm a bit more uptight than you, and I would imagine you enjoy better client relationships than I have!

That said, I quite often offer some free of charge consultancy/coaching, but I like it to be on my terms.

[Pit Pony]

I'd send a quote.

Post project support at £normal hourly rate x3 plus expenses at cost x 1.2 plus £2 per mile.
Evenings and weekends x 3again

Invoice will be monthly, itemised by the day plus nber of hours in the day.

To be paid within 28 days

Then I'd stop giving advice until I had a purchase order.

Or we can quote for a training course

[Lefty]

Every time I get a query that needs more than a 5 minute response that’s an hour being billed. Irrespective of whether that’s an email or a call.

12 clients, all unit-rate reimbursable contracts or lump sum plus unit-rate support.

[Grrbang]

Most of my attorney time involves producing some sort of work product. A lot of unpaid time often goes in before the client agrees for me to start the work.

While it would be nice to bill for all that time, life's too short to count emails, or slavishly start my timesheet every time I open an email, or issue an invoice that seems too high for the complexity of the work product. I sometimes bill for this time, but more often than not it's 'lost' time.

Most clients can self-regulate. However, there are a few retired chaps I really need a strategy for because once I've picked up the phone, the monologues may go on for hours!

[Newc]

Have seen this situation from both sides of the table. As above, you absolutely need to charge for your valuable time. Only you can decide if that's better done as retainer, per-query, billable hours, whatever.

What is important though is to move everyone on mentally. It sounds like you consider the project is complete. So a formal note to the company saying this, it's all done and closed and how great it was to work together etc etc. Then as part of your excellent customer service approach you will be available for the next two months for ad hoc queries relating to the project up to a maximum of X hours, and then from 1 Sep you will be on a fully chargeable basis of whatever it is.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

What have you done then OP?

[Zero Fuchs]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

What have you done then OP?

What have I done, honestly? So far just hide under the covers like a coward

I've read all the advice, which has been gratefully received and am going to write off all the support to date but will be sending an email to open up conversation about how we move forward.

I can't be bothered to log time so an estimate based on the amount of contact sounds preferable to me. Knowing my client I doubt a retainer will be on the cards.

[hidetheelephants]

Zero Fuchs said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

What have you done then OP?

What have I done, honestly? So far just hide under the covers like a coward

I've read all the advice, which has been gratefully received and am going to write off all the support to date but will be sending an email to open up conversation about how we move forward.

I can't be bothered to log time so an estimate based on the amount of contact sounds preferable to me. Knowing my client I doubt a retainer will be on the cards.

You already have an open tab with them; send an invoice, at worst they won't pay but this idiot will stop asking you damn fool questions, which is a win.

[Mr Pointy]

Zero Fuchs said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

What have you done then OP?

What have I done, honestly? So far just hide under the covers like a coward

I've read all the advice, which has been gratefully received and am going to write off all the support to date but will be sending an email to open up conversation about how we move forward.

I can't be bothered to log time so an estimate based on the amount of contact sounds preferable to me. Knowing my client I doubt a retainer will be on the cards.

You might want to be a little careful around your PI insurance - you might not be covered for this sort of ad-hoc advice that isn't specifically covered by a PO. All the more reason to get a support contract in place.