Fedex Finds Item After Claim Paid Out

Fedex Finds Item After Claim Paid Out

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flat16

Original Poster:

347 posts

241 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
Hi,

Has anyone here been in this situation?

Back in January, I sent a pre-paid Fedex label (from a broker - not Fedex direct) to a customer in NYC, for the purpose of sending back an item for servicing that we built here in the UK in 2018. It cost around £7K and was built to their spec (custom order).

2 days into following tracking, the item disappeared, and no one knew its whereabouts. The last place it was tracked was the Indianapolis depot, which is larger than Wembley stadium. Weeks passed, and eventually we got a call from the courier broker firm to say that Fedex had declared the item lost.
Because the max. insurance that the broker offered was £1,000, this was all we could claim for (1st time in 19 years we had a complete loss).

Once it was declared lost, a dialogue started with the Fedex broker...

Every email from them demanded another means of proof to its value. We had to itemise its components and obtain statements from its buyers, along with bank statements and invoices. Every time I thought I’d answered their request, they had another. It got to the point where I thought it was too much effort to get £1K, which I think was their intention.

From when Fedex officially declared the parcel missing to when we got paid the £1K claim, around 10 weeks had passed. At every turn, they procrastinated ‘sorry, but we are waiting for Fedex to carry out additional checks, which can take 2 weeks’. Every time I satisfied their request, they had another. It amounted to over 18 emails, with detailed attachments. They just kept coming back with more requests, stalling the claim. It was quite sinister, as the ‘claims department’ wasn’t giving a name to contact, and emails were anonymously written (they rectified this when I complained that it looked sinister…). In short, getting the measly £1K for something that would have cost several times that to replace took a great deal of time and stress and I was surprised when they finally paid up (they probably Googled the client and realised they're a large company with lawyers).

Fast forward a month from getting the £1K payout and Fedex gets in touch to say that they’ve found the package… An employee found it in their warehouse… It gets delivered to us,.over 4 months on... I then get an email from the courier claims department asking for the £1K back… They are now saying they want it back in 7 days or they will take ‘action’… 10 days after we got the parcel…

I can ask a lawyer, but that will cost at least a couple of hundred quid, and if I’ve got to pay £1K back, it won’t make sense.

I wonder what our legal standing here is? They took hours of my time answering their requests. Surely, I should be entitled to an amount for that? I guess I could push it, in which case they could apply to small claims (which is what I was planning to do, after about a month of their procrastinating....).

TIA


surveyor

18,143 posts

191 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
I'd start asking them lots of questions, repeatedly....

Sylvias_Father

45 posts

36 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
Claim it never arrived...

dundarach

5,376 posts

235 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
Event begins...

Parcel lost

Claim paid

Parcel found (and delivered?)

Claim returned (less your admin fee if it really matters to you that much?)

Event ends...


What the issue paying them back?

How much time and effort (and loss) can you justify and prove you've invested in this claim, how many emails\calls have you made? Deduct them £20 an hour and see what they say??

Or just give it back and move on, you're presumably now all sorted, item paid for and delivered and everyone happy?

flat16

Original Poster:

347 posts

241 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
I can't do that, as Fedex used the same tracking number to return it (nothing odd about that, 4 months after item went awol...), so broker knows it arrived.

I did notice a ding on its side, and raised this with the owner, stating that it probably happened in their use. Alas, after weeks and weeks of procrastinating from the broker, one of the owners cc-ed the courier claims dept, with my message saying it was likely normal wear and tear...

I think the best I can do now is to itemise all the time they've wasted of mine. I run my own firm, so the 10+ hours I spent on their increasingly esoteric questions has lost my firm hundreds in lost income.

If I do repay the cash, I'll be able to contact Aviva (new underwriter for goods-in-transit - I'll never pay a courier firm for excess cover again!) and tell them that the claim can be struck off our record (even though it was through another firm, I had to tell Aviva for obvious reasons). I guess that could bring premium down next year.

Thanks

flat16

Original Poster:

347 posts

241 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
dundarach said:
Event begins...

Parcel lost

Claim paid

Parcel found (and delivered?)

Claim returned (less your admin fee if it really matters to you that much?)

Event ends...


What the issue paying them back?

How much time and effort (and loss) can you justify and prove you've invested in this claim, how many emails\calls have you made? Deduct them £20 an hour and see what they say??

Or just give it back and move on, you're presumably now all sorted, item paid for and delivered and everyone happy?
Not that simple. I had to send client a £3K item as temporary replacement for the lost item. The item was brand new, but now it's had 4 months of use. At this point, I am £3K out of pocket, excluding time wasted. Client says they want to keep replacement, but cannot pay me for it until September. Whole saga has lost me £1K easily. They took 10 weeks of haggling to pay up. I lost my faith in human nature.

I should add that I have been using broker for 5 years and have paid them well into 5 figures in excess cover payments. And they took 10 weeks and hours of jumping through hoops before they paid. I came very close to giving up. I think the whole process was designed to engender that.

Muzzer79

11,060 posts

194 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
Fedex have insured your item up to £1000, which you accepted when arranging the transit.

They have subsequently paid out (admittedly, after some wrangling on your part)

Now that the item has been found though, you can't keep your £1000.

If you had your £7000 car stolen and the insurance company paid out £1000 for it, if the car was recovered unmarked and they returned it to you, would you expect to keep the £1000?

Yes, the claims process has been a burden and yes, they don't make it easy, but I would be highly surprised if your agreement with them doesn't exclude consequential loss, which your time to deal with the claim most firmly comes under.


Take your item back, return the grand and chalk it up to experience.

Muzzer79

11,060 posts

194 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
flat16 said:
I had to send client a £3K item as temporary replacement for the lost item.
Consequential loss

flat16 said:
The item was brand new, but now it's had 4 months of use. At this point, I am £3K out of pocket, excluding time wasted.
Consequential loss

flat16 said:
Client says they want to keep replacement, but cannot pay me for it until September.
Consequential loss

flat16 said:
They took 10 weeks of haggling to pay up.
Guess what?

(And it wasn't 'haggling' it was processing)



Simpo Two

87,088 posts

272 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
flat16 said:
Fast forward a month from getting the £1K payout and Fedex gets in touch to say that they’ve found the package… An employee found it in their warehouse… It gets delivered to us,.over 4 months on... I then get an email from the courier claims department asking for the £1K back… They are now saying they want it back in 7 days or they will take ‘action’… 10 days after we got the parcel…

I wonder what our legal standing here is? They took hours of my time answering their requests. Surely, I should be entitled to an amount for that? I guess I could push it, in which case they could apply to small claims (which is what I was planning to do, after about a month of their procrastinating....)
They are entitled to it, but as they made you sweat for 10 weeks and waste hours of your time you could play some cat and mouse if you have nothing else to do. Two ideas (1) Take the same approach as they did when they kept asking you for more and more details and hope they get bored and give up. (2) Compile a list of the time and expenses incurred by you to date (<£1,000), raise an invoice, contra it against theirs and send them the difference. That should throw their accounts into a spin. Have they actually invoiced you? If not tell them you will gladly pay but must have an invoice for your accountant yada.

They might dig in, go to small claims and then you pay up, but they are more likely to sell the debt to a debt collection agency (in which case you can play the game again and apologise for the fact FedEx have made them waste their time and/or you are still waiting for an invoice). Alternatively FedEx might write it off, or they/debt agency *might* just be daft enough to pay your invoice. I tried that once and to my amazement they paid up!

If you get to the end of the road and have to pay, then you say 'well actually I don't have £1,000 in the bank right now but can do £100pcm for 10 months...'

Is it childish? Well arguably yes, but you have nothing to lose, you might win, and this is PH after all...

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 19th June 16:55

gotoPzero

18,185 posts

196 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
Just tell them you pay all invoices on 30 days.

Its not unreasonable given its b2b and if they went to small claims before the 30 days they would be very silly.


Simpo Two

87,088 posts

272 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
gotoPzero said:
Just tell them you pay all invoices on 30 days.

Its not unreasonable given its b2b and if they went to small claims before the 30 days they would be very silly.
Sound answer. Looks official and business-like, makes them do some work and appears fair.

PugwasHDJ80

7,558 posts

228 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
Ask them to prove the debt- original sale with your agreement, proof of pickup, proof of drop off, proof that they paid the money, proof it was an insurance claim, proof that they paid fedex etc etc etc etc

don't ever write that you deny the debt, just keep asking questions.

Their eventual outcome is to force you to court.... as its a broker its unlikely that fedex will take you to court!

Mr Pointy

11,849 posts

166 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
You might want to start by reading the T&Cs of the contract between you & your broker - you may find that there's a clause that covers repayment in these circumstances which you have agreed to & it may even state that repayment is to be within seven days. You'd be unwise to walk into a contract dispute if that's the case. Again, does the agreement allow you to recover time spent on the claim? Almost certainly not. You can't unilateraly invent conditions of the contract between you.

They have people whose job it is to get into contract disputes; you don't. It might be galling but why not spend the time working on your business rather than fighting with somone who has far more weapons than you do?

dirky dirk

3,158 posts

177 months

Tuesday 20th June 2023
quotequote all
You should always take out your own transit insurance.
Not sure what the law is here but you’d have potentially been six grand down
So always take yojr own out in future.

Hammersia

1,564 posts

22 months

Tuesday 20th June 2023
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
flat16 said:
Fast forward a month from getting the £1K payout and Fedex gets in touch to say that they’ve found the package… An employee found it in their warehouse… It gets delivered to us,.over 4 months on... I then get an email from the courier claims department asking for the £1K back… They are now saying they want it back in 7 days or they will take ‘action’… 10 days after we got the parcel…

I wonder what our legal standing here is? They took hours of my time answering their requests. Surely, I should be entitled to an amount for that? I guess I could push it, in which case they could apply to small claims (which is what I was planning to do, after about a month of their procrastinating....)
They are entitled to it, but as they made you sweat for 10 weeks and waste hours of your time you could play some cat and mouse if you have nothing else to do. Two ideas (1) Take the same approach as they did when they kept asking you for more and more details and hope they get bored and give up. (2) Compile a list of the time and expenses incurred by you to date (<£1,000), raise an invoice, contra it against theirs and send them the difference. That should throw their accounts into a spin. Have they actually invoiced you? If not tell them you will gladly pay but must have an invoice for your accountant yada.

They might dig in, go to small claims and then you pay up, but they are more likely to sell the debt to a debt collection agency (in which case you can play the game again and apologise for the fact FedEx have made them waste their time and/or you are still waiting for an invoice). Alternatively FedEx might write it off, or they/debt agency *might* just be daft enough to pay your invoice. I tried that once and to my amazement they paid up!

If you get to the end of the road and have to pay, then you say 'well actually I don't have £1,000 in the bank right now but can do £100pcm for 10 months...'

Is it childish? Well arguably yes, but you have nothing to lose, you might win, and this is PH after all...

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 19th June 16:55
Definitely this sort of thing ^^^^^^ , seriously.

I have done this in different situations and it is immensely satisfying. Doesn't take any time to ask them questions and make them jump through the same hoops.

vikingaero

11,232 posts

176 months

Tuesday 20th June 2023
quotequote all
Tell them that you need 10 weeks minimum to effect an investigation. Then when you have deducted your costs, send them a cheque by Fedex. If it doesn't arrive that's their problem.

acer12

1,054 posts

181 months

Tuesday 20th June 2023
quotequote all
In reality they wasted your valuable time as a business owner whereas all you are going to do is waste the time of a worker who gets a salary where it’s no skin off their back and who are likely very removed from those who set the rules within the company.

You are not going to win this and you will just lose more by devoting more time to it. Id just put it on the back burner ignore correspondence from them and refund them their money as late as you can and move on. Nothing to be gained from it

gmasterfunk

467 posts

155 months

Tuesday 20th June 2023
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Do you need Time to inspect the part and test it at this very busy time. Its in the queue right?

AnotherUsername

305 posts

71 months

Saturday 24th June 2023
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Make deductions for time, wear and tear and anything else. I’d give them nothing. Tell them to keep it or send them an alternative

Muzzer79

11,060 posts

194 months

Saturday 24th June 2023
quotequote all
AnotherUsername said:
Make deductions for time, wear and tear and anything else. I’d give them nothing. Tell them to keep it or send them an alternative
So, to be clear, you’d tell them to keep the £7k item to avoid giving them £1k back?

confused