Fully Costed Breakdown

[Glassman]

Are you happy to disclose a 'fully costed' breakdown if asked?

In the world of windscreen replacement, broadly speaking, it doesn't happen as there is usually a ceiling and as long as we are within that, it's all plain sailing. However, some insurance companies - the ones that steer their policyholders towards an 'approved' repairer - will ask for a 'fully costed breakdown' of an estimate or quotation.

Would you be happy to open yourself up for negotiation in this way?

[Whoozit]

Reminds me of the story about an engineer hired to fix a ship engine that wouldn't start. He walked into the engine room, took out a copper hammer, and tapped hard. The engine started immediately.

He charged - let's say - £10,000 for the job.

When the ship owner insisted on a breakdown given it took only seconds, he issued this

- Wear and tear on mallet - 1p
- Knowing where and just how hard to tap to get you going - £9,999.99

Moral of the story is it's not what your cost is, but what benefit you bring to the client.

[TwistingMyMelon]

Weigh up how much you want the work from them

Factor in the extra paperwork/bullst to costs

Decide if its worth it!

[Glassman]

An engineer will usually question the cost of parts, or the labour rate and this is where it's, IMHO, invasive. The client has requested our services and this is what the cost is. To a point, you can call the main dealer and ascertain what the parts might cost; by this you can deduce what the labour rate is, and any add-ons.

In reality, the 'specialist engineer' is an ex fitter now working in the office brushing it off with statements like, "it's a 20-minute job, that". Plus, they will be weighing up aftermarket parts cost and comparing it to the genuine (OE branded) glass quotation we've submitted.

Breaking it down: the cost of accepting this quotation is £x. Not accepting it is £0.

[Countdown]

Glassman said:

Are you happy to disclose a 'fully costed' breakdown if asked?

In the world of windscreen replacement, broadly speaking, it doesn't happen as there is usually a ceiling and as long as we are within that, it's all plain sailing. However, some insurance companies - the ones that steer their policyholders towards an 'approved' repairer - will ask for a 'fully costed breakdown' of an estimate or quotation.

Would you be happy to open yourself up for negotiation in this way?

I assume they're looking to make savings and having a "fully costed breakdown" ensures transparency and comparability between different suppliers. When we run tenders I'm fairly sure we ask for detailed pricing.

What it always comes back to is

- how confident you are in your pricing
- how much you need their work.

[Sheepshanks]

I suppose insurance companies are used to seeing the breakdown that bodyshop estimating software produces - someone posted one up on here from Audax? (something like that) for a scratch on a Polo door that years ago you'd get someone to fix for £50 and it produced an estimate of £1100.

[Glassman]

Agree with the above, but we get approached as a specialist (or sometimes when the approved repairer gets it wrong).

[goldar]

Sheepshanks said:

I suppose insurance companies are used to seeing the breakdown that bodyshop estimating software produces - someone posted one up on here from Audax? (something like that) for a scratch on a Polo door that years ago you'd get someone to fix for £50 and it produced an estimate of £1100.

£1100!? Looks like I let them off lightly with my invoice of £960 for 2 scratches.

[Mr Pointy]

Glassman said:

An engineer will usually question the cost of parts, or the labour rate and this is where it's, IMHO, invasive. The client has requested our services and this is what the cost is. To a point, you can call the main dealer and ascertain what the parts might cost; by this you can deduce what the labour rate is, and any add-ons.

In reality, the 'specialist engineer' is an ex fitter now working in the office brushing it off with statements like, "it's a 20-minute job, that". Plus, they will be weighing up aftermarket parts cost and comparing it to the genuine (OE branded) glass quotation we've submitted.

Breaking it down: the cost of accepting this quotation is £x. Not accepting it is £0.

At the end of the day it just comes down to how much you need the work from them. Personally if I wanted the work I might do a simple overall gross labour/materials split but I wouldn't negotiate once the quote has gone in.

[Countdown]

Glassman said:

Agree with the above, but we get approached as a specialist (or sometimes when the approved repairer gets it wrong).

If they’re coming to you as a recognised specialist will they really be quibbling on price?

E.g a friend of mine is a Tax specialist. His hourly rate is much higher than most accountants, but the people who come to him know that they’re paying for a premium service l

Edited by Countdown on Thursday 15th June 18:43

[Glassman]

Countdown said:

If they’re coming to you as a recognised specialist will they really be quibbling on price?

Recognised specialist according to the owners club/advice/recommendation/experience/car owner's choice. Their view is, 'we can do it'.

It's insurance companies trying their luck because that's what they have to do to keep it within the agreement. There was a period of time where a load of TVR owners went with a particular insurer who had an agreement with a national provider. They got a lot wrong and even though we managed to correct the ones coming to us, they still wanted a breakdown. In the end they pay, but it's funny how cost analysis might have been a contributing factor in the first place.

[Whoozit]

Countdown said:

If they’re coming to you as a recognised specialist will they really be quibbling on price?

E.g a friend of mine is a Tax specialist. His hourly rate is much higher than most accountants, but the people who come to him know that they’re paying for a premium service l

Edited by Countdown on Thursday 15th June 18:43

Mmmm. I run a pretty specialised consultancy. Our daily rate is same ballpark as individual corporate experts. However we are always contracted for 3-6 month jobs because people who hit the wall of this specific need, don't tend to have a lot of options and zero time to bring it on board.

And if we get asked to do short term repair work, we charge +50% and clients happily pay because we're solving an urgent problem.

[Simpo Two]

Glassman said:

Would you be happy to open yourself up for negotiation in this way?

A fully costed breakdown doesn't mean it's a start for negotiation, it's just an estimate or quote in more detail.

As a photographer my cost is my time and skill. Pixels are free. Better photographers will cost more, and if you want to save money, hire a worse one. But things for most other people will be parts and labour.

I suppose the internet has enabled people to say 'I can get this part online for £49 and you want £51 for it so I demand you beat £49', but really, life's too short; you don't need customers like that.

[Glassman]

Simpo Two said:

Glassman said:

Would you be happy to open yourself up for negotiation in this way?

A fully costed breakdown doesn't mean it's a start for negotiation, it's just an estimate or quote in more detail.

As a photographer my cost is my time and skill. Pixels are free. Better photographers will cost more, and if you want to save money, hire a worse one. But things for most other people will be parts and labour.

I suppose the internet has enabled people to say 'I can get this part online for £49 and you want £51 for it so I demand you beat £49', but really, life's too short; you don't need customers like that.

Agreed, but the insco is not my customer; their client is, who has a car which needs specialist attention. The fully costed disclosure gives them the opportunity to negotiate the labour rate, or to kick the trims out because their contracted repairer doesn't pay for them. I no longer entertain it. I'm happy to itemise a quotation (or estimate if it's a contracted repairer cock-up) but I will not break down the cost.

Putting estimates together takes time. Creating and sending invoices takes time; the bookkeeping etc.

[Glassman]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Having worked on the insurance side of things, they often ask for full breakdowns to stop suppliers taking the mick and loading loading prices ‘because it’s an insurance job and they always pay’.

I take your point. In the eighties windscreen claim fraud and rip-offs was rife. Firms retro-fitting sunroofs against a windscreen claim set the tone for this kind of activity. That said, inscos leave themselves wide open as they do not ask to see any evidence, so the trend of frivolous and spurious claims continue. Take a look around on PH: 'my windscreen got scratched by a bit of grit in my chamois leather'. 'Accidentally drive the car into a hammer', etc.

Deception and fraud aside, the national windscreen companies have been driving prices down in their tug-of-war for exclusivity. 'If you give us all your work, we won't charge you for trims'. Then there are the Average Invoice Value deals. They're now so low the policyholder contribution (excess) can be more than the insco payout. The numbers might have stacked up when the average car was a rubber-fit Metro windscreen, but it's different now. This is why there are additional charges, like taking your car for a drive after the windscreen has been replaced (to make sure the ADAS does what it did before replacing the glass). That's another £180.00 legitimised, thank you very much.

Insurance companies will also 'only' pay for an aftermarket windscreen ( "no trims" ) as per terms and conditions, yet if the car went in for crash repairs (and the windscreen was part of the claim) it will be a genuine part with all conjunction parts.

It's more about protecting the deal they have with their contracted repairer.