Selling a company owned car - warranty.
Discussion
ian_c_uk said:
If a business (that has nothing to do with the motor trade) sells a vehicle, can it be "sold as seen" as per a private sale?
As a business, even if they make plastic grommets, would they have the same liabilities as a motor trader?
I can't think so - the business has no motor vehicle expertise.As a business, even if they make plastic grommets, would they have the same liabilities as a motor trader?
I would suggest caution with this.
There was a thread on PH a while ago where a guy with a small business (absolutely nothing to do with the motor trade) sold off a couple of old vans to members of the public. One van shat it's engine a little while after sale, and it turned out, that ANY business selling ANYTHING including a van, had to offer some sort of 'fit for purpose' money back warranty for that item. The seller ended up getting stung for it, even though the advert was factual and the van was clearly advertised as 'Sold as seen. No warranty. I am a plumber not a van trader' etc
The legal bods on PH did confirm that even if a florist sold an old flower delivery van, and were fully upfront about know knowing a single thing about the vehicle mechanically, they would still be "A business selling something to the public and it must be fit for use"
There was a thread on PH a while ago where a guy with a small business (absolutely nothing to do with the motor trade) sold off a couple of old vans to members of the public. One van shat it's engine a little while after sale, and it turned out, that ANY business selling ANYTHING including a van, had to offer some sort of 'fit for purpose' money back warranty for that item. The seller ended up getting stung for it, even though the advert was factual and the van was clearly advertised as 'Sold as seen. No warranty. I am a plumber not a van trader' etc
The legal bods on PH did confirm that even if a florist sold an old flower delivery van, and were fully upfront about know knowing a single thing about the vehicle mechanically, they would still be "A business selling something to the public and it must be fit for use"
Lord Marylebone said:
I would suggest caution with this.
There was a thread on PH a while ago where a guy with a small business (absolutely nothing to do with the motor trade) sold off a couple of old vans to members of the public. One van shat it's engine a little while after sale, and it turned out, that ANY business selling ANYTHING including a van, had to offer some sort of 'fit for purpose' money back warranty for that item. The seller ended up getting stung for it, even though the advert was factual and the van was clearly advertised as 'Sold as seen. No warranty. I am a plumber not a van trader' etc
The legal bods on PH did confirm that even if a florist sold an old flower delivery van, and were fully upfront about know knowing a single thing about the vehicle mechanically, they would still be "A business selling something to the public and it must be fit for use"
Technical point - the trail has gone from 'company' to 'business'. If you're a sole trader then I can't see it's any different to anyone else selling a car privately. I'm a sole trader (photography) and nobody's asked me for a warranty when I've sold a car. It's a private sale, end of. And if you're a company director you're an employee...There was a thread on PH a while ago where a guy with a small business (absolutely nothing to do with the motor trade) sold off a couple of old vans to members of the public. One van shat it's engine a little while after sale, and it turned out, that ANY business selling ANYTHING including a van, had to offer some sort of 'fit for purpose' money back warranty for that item. The seller ended up getting stung for it, even though the advert was factual and the van was clearly advertised as 'Sold as seen. No warranty. I am a plumber not a van trader' etc
The legal bods on PH did confirm that even if a florist sold an old flower delivery van, and were fully upfront about know knowing a single thing about the vehicle mechanically, they would still be "A business selling something to the public and it must be fit for use"
Could the difference be that a van is a commercial vehicle?
Simpo Two said:
Technical point - the trail has gone from 'company' to 'business'. If you're a sole trader then I can't see it's any different to anyone else selling a car privately. I'm a sole trader (photography) and nobody's asked me for a warranty when I've sold a car. It's a private sale, end of. And if you're a company director you're an employee...
It's not a warranty, but you'd get probably get caught by the usual CRA rules.Indeed even as a private seller you can get stuffed - there's a case on here that went to small claims court and the PH seller lost. Completely weird circumstances - woman had sold the car and there was no evidence of the fault or that it had been repaired, but the seller still had to pay the estimated cost of repair.
A business would probably be best disposing of vehicles into the motor trade, and focussing on their main activity.
Sheepshanks said:
It's not a warranty, but you'd get probably get caught by the usual CRA rules.
Indeed even as a private seller you can get stuffed - there's a case on here that went to small claims court and the PH seller lost. Completely weird circumstances - woman had sold the car and there was no evidence of the fault or that it had been repaired, but the seller still had to pay the estimated cost of repair.
A business would probably be best disposing of vehicles into the motor trade, and focussing on their main activity.
This. Indeed even as a private seller you can get stuffed - there's a case on here that went to small claims court and the PH seller lost. Completely weird circumstances - woman had sold the car and there was no evidence of the fault or that it had been repaired, but the seller still had to pay the estimated cost of repair.
A business would probably be best disposing of vehicles into the motor trade, and focussing on their main activity.
It was ‘consumer rights’ type issue with the thread on PH where a plumber sold an old van to Joe Public or whatever it was.
I wish I could find the thread now, because it was really interesting.
It wasn’t anything to do with it being a van, it was to do with ‘someone trading or acting as a business of any sort, selling an item that belonged to their business, to a member of the public, and therefore it must be fit for purpose’
I was arguing in the thread on behalf of the sole trader/plumber/small business that it was unreasonable to expect them to ensure any old item they were disposing of was fit for purpose, but the legal bods said otherwise.
It explains why many businesses simply scrap perfectly usable equipment rather than trying to sell it used. There can be comeback that they just don’t need.
Lord Marylebone said:
I would suggest caution with this.
There was a thread on PH a while ago where a guy with a small business (absolutely nothing to do with the motor trade) sold off a couple of old vans to members of the public. One van shat it's engine a little while after sale, and it turned out, that ANY business selling ANYTHING including a van, had to offer some sort of 'fit for purpose' money back warranty for that item. The seller ended up getting stung for it, even though the advert was factual and the van was clearly advertised as 'Sold as seen. No warranty. I am a plumber not a van trader' etc
The legal bods on PH did confirm that even if a florist sold an old flower delivery van, and were fully upfront about know knowing a single thing about the vehicle mechanically, they would still be "A business selling something to the public and it must be fit for use"
This is more than likely correct in the eyes of the law should something end up in court.There was a thread on PH a while ago where a guy with a small business (absolutely nothing to do with the motor trade) sold off a couple of old vans to members of the public. One van shat it's engine a little while after sale, and it turned out, that ANY business selling ANYTHING including a van, had to offer some sort of 'fit for purpose' money back warranty for that item. The seller ended up getting stung for it, even though the advert was factual and the van was clearly advertised as 'Sold as seen. No warranty. I am a plumber not a van trader' etc
The legal bods on PH did confirm that even if a florist sold an old flower delivery van, and were fully upfront about know knowing a single thing about the vehicle mechanically, they would still be "A business selling something to the public and it must be fit for use"
It's why you see so many business dispose of such assets via auction house to rid themselves of any such comebackss
Evidence of this could be seen when the police disposed of their BMW *30d and *35d vehicles at auction by putting a holes in the blocks too.
Lord Marylebone said:
It wasn’t anything to do with it being a van, it was to do with ‘someone trading or acting as a business of any sort, selling an item that belonged to their business, to a member of the public, and therefore it must be fit for purpose
But the person selling it is a member of the public too. In this instance Judge Simpo finds the law to be an ass. 
Paddymcc said:
It's why you see so many business dispose of such assets via auction house to rid themselves of any such comebacks
And also much easier/quicker of course.My first Jaguar (XJ40 Sovereign) had a list price of £36,000 and had been used by a director of Norcros. I bought it at three years old for just £10,500 from an auction. Norcros lose, me win!!
Sy1441 said:
Sell the car to yourself or your partner from the business then sell it on.
Again we run into the woolly term 'business'. If you're a sole trader you can't sell it to yourself because you already own it (unless it's on finance).So if I'm unemployed I can sell my car as a private sale - 'sold as seen'. But if I pick up my camera and earn £10 by taking a photo, legal theory above says I can't.
ian_c_uk said:
If a business (that has nothing to do with the motor trade) sells a vehicle, can it be "sold as seen" as per a private sale?
As a business, even if they make plastic grommets, would they have the same liabilities as a motor trader?
I have done this with ex-company cars and vans after we have run them for a few years. Just sold them as you would privately with a receipt detailing no warranty or come back. As a business, even if they make plastic grommets, would they have the same liabilities as a motor trader?
If you sell something to a consumer you as a business are bound by the consumer rights act (CRA.) selling something not part of your business expertise is not relevant to this.
You might not be deemed an "expert" so a car dealer would be liable for things an expert should know, in addition to the CRA a plumber or plasterer would not.
We used to sell our old 7.5T truck chassis on ebay as they are quite popular for conversion to horse boxes (lots of people can still drive them without an HGV) when the CRA came in we were advised to stop as the potential costs massively outweighed the extra £1-2K we made compared to selling them to a trader.
Unless there is a huge price difference from selling privately its not worth the grief.
You might not be deemed an "expert" so a car dealer would be liable for things an expert should know, in addition to the CRA a plumber or plasterer would not.
We used to sell our old 7.5T truck chassis on ebay as they are quite popular for conversion to horse boxes (lots of people can still drive them without an HGV) when the CRA came in we were advised to stop as the potential costs massively outweighed the extra £1-2K we made compared to selling them to a trader.
Unless there is a huge price difference from selling privately its not worth the grief.
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