Discussion
I've been looking at taking on the tenancy for my local village pub ( current landlord exiting to run his other pub following a relationship breakdown)
On the face of it, the start up costs look reasonable and I know the business from the other side of the bar. I know the staff, the locals and local businesses ( food suppliers).
Id need to grow the business as it's not been well run recently and I have a concern over costs etc.
Any pub landlords current or past have any thoughts on the trade?
On the face of it, the start up costs look reasonable and I know the business from the other side of the bar. I know the staff, the locals and local businesses ( food suppliers).
Id need to grow the business as it's not been well run recently and I have a concern over costs etc.
Any pub landlords current or past have any thoughts on the trade?
Most people I have talked to who have a lease with a brewery seem to say that as they build the business they see the rents go up to a point where they can’t make money. I think a reasonable income is possible but not proper profit.
My friend has just bought a freehold but I think it will be a 1.5m to 2m project by the time it is up to full potential and still no guarantee of profit.
My friend has just bought a freehold but I think it will be a 1.5m to 2m project by the time it is up to full potential and still no guarantee of profit.
I was in the hospitality business for 16 years. I had my first pub aged 18, followed by bars and nightclubs.
I’ve read a few tenancy agreements / contracts over the years, and I can’t ever remember reading one that I liked. The usual deal was that you’d be tied into getting pretty much everything from one supplier who could dictate whatever prices they wanted to you.
You’re not going to run a successful pub working 40 hours per week. Try 100 hours a week. You’ll be the cleaner, the bartender, the cellar boy, the doorman, the book keeper, the chef, the pot washer and the waiter.
It’s your birthday? You’re working.
Wedding anniversary? You’re working.
Your Wife or kid’s birthday? You’re working.
It’s Christmas? You’re working.
You’ve got severe man flu and are about to be carted off to intensive care? Yep, you’re working.
You’ll be starting at 06:00 every day, and finishing at midnight to 02:00, every day.
Added to which, for the most part it’s a dying industry. I don’t mean to piss on your chips, but why do you think that you’ll be better at this than every other pub in a five mile radius? How much money are you prepared to lose trying this out?
Running a pub isn’t a job. It isn’t a business. It’s a way of life that demands 100% commitment if you plan on eaking out even a meagre living.
I’ve thought of going back into that game several times, both as a Manager or as an owner, and I honestly don’t think I’d have the consistent energy any more.
Good luck though
I’ve read a few tenancy agreements / contracts over the years, and I can’t ever remember reading one that I liked. The usual deal was that you’d be tied into getting pretty much everything from one supplier who could dictate whatever prices they wanted to you.
You’re not going to run a successful pub working 40 hours per week. Try 100 hours a week. You’ll be the cleaner, the bartender, the cellar boy, the doorman, the book keeper, the chef, the pot washer and the waiter.
It’s your birthday? You’re working.
Wedding anniversary? You’re working.
Your Wife or kid’s birthday? You’re working.
It’s Christmas? You’re working.
You’ve got severe man flu and are about to be carted off to intensive care? Yep, you’re working.
You’ll be starting at 06:00 every day, and finishing at midnight to 02:00, every day.
Added to which, for the most part it’s a dying industry. I don’t mean to piss on your chips, but why do you think that you’ll be better at this than every other pub in a five mile radius? How much money are you prepared to lose trying this out?
Running a pub isn’t a job. It isn’t a business. It’s a way of life that demands 100% commitment if you plan on eaking out even a meagre living.
I’ve thought of going back into that game several times, both as a Manager or as an owner, and I honestly don’t think I’d have the consistent energy any more.
Good luck though
Thanks all for the comments - echos my thinking to be honest
I have a call in with the brewery today to look at previous years trading and talk terms so will see what that looks like. I'm not desperate for the pub so happy to negotiate hard.
The pub is the only pub in the village and I would like to get it back to what it was with a big emphasis on the community side BUT only if it makes financial sense. It does not open late most days and I couldn't see a business case for chaging the operating hours as it's a food led business really.
I'm currently retired (I'm 51) so earnings from the pub would be incremental (or not!) to my pension.
Thanks again for all comments
I have a call in with the brewery today to look at previous years trading and talk terms so will see what that looks like. I'm not desperate for the pub so happy to negotiate hard.
The pub is the only pub in the village and I would like to get it back to what it was with a big emphasis on the community side BUT only if it makes financial sense. It does not open late most days and I couldn't see a business case for chaging the operating hours as it's a food led business really.
I'm currently retired (I'm 51) so earnings from the pub would be incremental (or not!) to my pension.
Thanks again for all comments
I guess the biggest question is, do you even have experience in the industry already?
The amount of places and people I come across where people have taken over and lack a clear direction and try to do everything and then wonder why it's not working/not making money blows my mind, it's so simple but so very difficult for people to grasp.
Growing food and labour costs mean that having a good chef who knows his s
t is imperative to making money back of house.
Its not na easy game to make money in at all, oh st the ice machines broken? Dishwasher/glass washer gone down? Oh fk it's the middle of summer and the fridge/freezer with all the stock in has gone down! All things that have to be thought about.
Add to that, if it's the only one in your village you'll be dictated to by the locals, piss them off, you'll haemorrhage money.
The amount of places and people I come across where people have taken over and lack a clear direction and try to do everything and then wonder why it's not working/not making money blows my mind, it's so simple but so very difficult for people to grasp.
Growing food and labour costs mean that having a good chef who knows his s
t is imperative to making money back of house.Its not na easy game to make money in at all, oh s
t the ice machines broken? Dishwasher/glass washer gone down? Oh fk it's the middle of summer and the fridge/freezer with all the stock in has gone down! All things that have to be thought about.Add to that, if it's the only one in your village you'll be dictated to by the locals, piss them off, you'll haemorrhage money.
I ran a tenancy for a couple of years in the late 90's, very hard work but we made quite a bit of money.
Food was where we made the most and that is where all the hard work is and you are only as good as the person doing the cooking. If it is not you then you will find it difficult to find and keep a good chef and they don't come cheap nowadays.
It is not a job, it is a lifestyle and I was glad to get out.
Our local landlady who owns our village pub has had to close it for 3 days a week while she works a second job in the NHS doing three full days followed by four full days in the pub.
Her husband runs a self employed building, odd jobs business, working full time at that. The four days they are open the landlady and her daughter run the pub.
That is the only way they can keep it running financially.
I suspect only pubs that comes to market at the moment are the ones that are losing money, and only keep open due to a quick turnover of landlords who think they can do better than the previous landlords by growing the business, do more food etc
However it never seems to work out that way, and in a couple of years they have run out of money and slink away with their tails between their legs to let the next suckers have a go.
I would avoid being that sucker if possible
Food was where we made the most and that is where all the hard work is and you are only as good as the person doing the cooking. If it is not you then you will find it difficult to find and keep a good chef and they don't come cheap nowadays.
It is not a job, it is a lifestyle and I was glad to get out.
Our local landlady who owns our village pub has had to close it for 3 days a week while she works a second job in the NHS doing three full days followed by four full days in the pub.
Her husband runs a self employed building, odd jobs business, working full time at that. The four days they are open the landlady and her daughter run the pub.
That is the only way they can keep it running financially.
I suspect only pubs that comes to market at the moment are the ones that are losing money, and only keep open due to a quick turnover of landlords who think they can do better than the previous landlords by growing the business, do more food etc
However it never seems to work out that way, and in a couple of years they have run out of money and slink away with their tails between their legs to let the next suckers have a go.
I would avoid being that sucker if possible
Thanks for the additional comments
I have no experience in the industry which is one of my main reservations. I've worked behind a bar many years ago but that gives me no insight at all to the current challenges businesses face.
I do have both financial and mangerial experience. I also know the current staff and I'm confident of retaining the key people (eg chef). Most are happy with the location of work so unlikely to leave.
The comment re: the village and hacking them off is noted. This is partly why I'm considering the pub to be honest. I'm an active member of the community events and I'm being encouraged to take on the pub to help reinvigorate it. Despite the lack of effort from the current landlord people still go in so I'm confident that trade would be increased easily.
I'm not blind to the risks though and the lack of background in the sector makes me uncomfortable.
I've been kicking this idea around for a year now but need to make a decision given the pub is now available.
Thanks all
I have no experience in the industry which is one of my main reservations. I've worked behind a bar many years ago but that gives me no insight at all to the current challenges businesses face.
I do have both financial and mangerial experience. I also know the current staff and I'm confident of retaining the key people (eg chef). Most are happy with the location of work so unlikely to leave.
The comment re: the village and hacking them off is noted. This is partly why I'm considering the pub to be honest. I'm an active member of the community events and I'm being encouraged to take on the pub to help reinvigorate it. Despite the lack of effort from the current landlord people still go in so I'm confident that trade would be increased easily.
I'm not blind to the risks though and the lack of background in the sector makes me uncomfortable.
I've been kicking this idea around for a year now but need to make a decision given the pub is now available.
Thanks all
as a counter point. The local in my village was bought out by an ex teacher about 7 years ago.
It is a Morland pub, ( is that a brewery?)
Anyway it was a neglected local pub in a reasonably affluent area ( country village), poorly decorated, poor food, zero atmosphere frequented by the occasional hard core local. Not open Sunday evening, saturday afternoon etc.
She's basically turned it around, invested in decor, music nights, runs a folk music festival once a year, encourages local clubs to have their meetings in the bar area, good food. It's now very busy. And whilst I am sure she works all hours, she's making enough money to buy a new Range Rover @100k. I think she owns the building however, and lives upstairs. She doesn't have a big TV to watch sports, although she does do events around the world cup for example.
So I think, if you are going to run a pub, you need to run one in a wealthy country village and provide the right kind of atmosphere and it'll probably be a success. I can well imagine a pub on a council estate being a bit of a struggle no matter how good.
It is a Morland pub, ( is that a brewery?)
Anyway it was a neglected local pub in a reasonably affluent area ( country village), poorly decorated, poor food, zero atmosphere frequented by the occasional hard core local. Not open Sunday evening, saturday afternoon etc.
She's basically turned it around, invested in decor, music nights, runs a folk music festival once a year, encourages local clubs to have their meetings in the bar area, good food. It's now very busy. And whilst I am sure she works all hours, she's making enough money to buy a new Range Rover @100k. I think she owns the building however, and lives upstairs. She doesn't have a big TV to watch sports, although she does do events around the world cup for example.
So I think, if you are going to run a pub, you need to run one in a wealthy country village and provide the right kind of atmosphere and it'll probably be a success. I can well imagine a pub on a council estate being a bit of a struggle no matter how good.
105.4 said:
I was in the hospitality business for 16 years. I had my first pub aged 18, followed by bars and nightclubs.
I’ve read a few tenancy agreements / contracts over the years, and I can’t ever remember reading one that I liked. The usual deal was that you’d be tied into getting pretty much everything from one supplier who could dictate whatever prices they wanted to you.
You’re not going to run a successful pub working 40 hours per week. Try 100 hours a week. You’ll be the cleaner, the bartender, the cellar boy, the doorman, the book keeper, the chef, the pot washer and the waiter.
It’s your birthday? You’re working.
Wedding anniversary? You’re working.
Your Wife or kid’s birthday? You’re working.
It’s Christmas? You’re working.
You’ve got severe man flu and are about to be carted off to intensive care? Yep, you’re working.
You’ll be starting at 06:00 every day, and finishing at midnight to 02:00, every day.
Added to which, for the most part it’s a dying industry. I don’t mean to piss on your chips, but why do you think that you’ll be better at this than every other pub in a five mile radius? How much money are you prepared to lose trying this out?
Running a pub isn’t a job. It isn’t a business. It’s a way of life that demands 100% commitment if you plan on eaking out even a meagre living.
I’ve thought of going back into that game several times, both as a Manager or as an owner, and I honestly don’t think I’d have the consistent energy any more.
Good luck though
This. You need the freehold rather than lease. There’s only one person / company making money from a leasehold. I’ve read a few tenancy agreements / contracts over the years, and I can’t ever remember reading one that I liked. The usual deal was that you’d be tied into getting pretty much everything from one supplier who could dictate whatever prices they wanted to you.
You’re not going to run a successful pub working 40 hours per week. Try 100 hours a week. You’ll be the cleaner, the bartender, the cellar boy, the doorman, the book keeper, the chef, the pot washer and the waiter.
It’s your birthday? You’re working.
Wedding anniversary? You’re working.
Your Wife or kid’s birthday? You’re working.
It’s Christmas? You’re working.
You’ve got severe man flu and are about to be carted off to intensive care? Yep, you’re working.
You’ll be starting at 06:00 every day, and finishing at midnight to 02:00, every day.
Added to which, for the most part it’s a dying industry. I don’t mean to piss on your chips, but why do you think that you’ll be better at this than every other pub in a five mile radius? How much money are you prepared to lose trying this out?
Running a pub isn’t a job. It isn’t a business. It’s a way of life that demands 100% commitment if you plan on eaking out even a meagre living.
I’ve thought of going back into that game several times, both as a Manager or as an owner, and I honestly don’t think I’d have the consistent energy any more.
Good luck though
105.4 said:
I was in the hospitality business for 16 years. I had my first pub aged 18, followed by bars and nightclubs.
I’ve read a few tenancy agreements / contracts over the years, and I can’t ever remember reading one that I liked. The usual deal was that you’d be tied into getting pretty much everything from one supplier who could dictate whatever prices they wanted to you.
You’re not going to run a successful pub working 40 hours per week. Try 100 hours a week. You’ll be the cleaner, the bartender, the cellar boy, the doorman, the book keeper, the chef, the pot washer and the waiter.
It’s your birthday? You’re working.
Wedding anniversary? You’re working.
Your Wife or kid’s birthday? You’re working.
It’s Christmas? You’re working.
You’ve got severe man flu and are about to be carted off to intensive care? Yep, you’re working.
You’ll be starting at 06:00 every day, and finishing at midnight to 02:00, every day.
Added to which, for the most part it’s a dying industry. I don’t mean to piss on your chips, but why do you think that you’ll be better at this than every other pub in a five mile radius? How much money are you prepared to lose trying this out?
Running a pub isn’t a job. It isn’t a business. It’s a way of life that demands 100% commitment if you plan on eaking out even a meagre living.
I’ve thought of going back into that game several times, both as a Manager or as an owner, and I honestly don’t think I’d have the consistent energy any more.
Good luck though
I used to have a pub chain as a customer. My contact there told me once that their business model was basically drawing in the bright-eyed and naive, and taking their nest egg from them.I’ve read a few tenancy agreements / contracts over the years, and I can’t ever remember reading one that I liked. The usual deal was that you’d be tied into getting pretty much everything from one supplier who could dictate whatever prices they wanted to you.
You’re not going to run a successful pub working 40 hours per week. Try 100 hours a week. You’ll be the cleaner, the bartender, the cellar boy, the doorman, the book keeper, the chef, the pot washer and the waiter.
It’s your birthday? You’re working.
Wedding anniversary? You’re working.
Your Wife or kid’s birthday? You’re working.
It’s Christmas? You’re working.
You’ve got severe man flu and are about to be carted off to intensive care? Yep, you’re working.
You’ll be starting at 06:00 every day, and finishing at midnight to 02:00, every day.
Added to which, for the most part it’s a dying industry. I don’t mean to piss on your chips, but why do you think that you’ll be better at this than every other pub in a five mile radius? How much money are you prepared to lose trying this out?
Running a pub isn’t a job. It isn’t a business. It’s a way of life that demands 100% commitment if you plan on eaking out even a meagre living.
I’ve thought of going back into that game several times, both as a Manager or as an owner, and I honestly don’t think I’d have the consistent energy any more.
Good luck though
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