Trademark help!
Discussion
So long story short we have a trademark application if for our company name I’ll use ”our name” for example we have had it and used it locally for our business ever since
And have went limited company in Jan of this year.
This is a logo for “our name” we got done in 2017 that was a remix Of an old logo from a company long bust in the 1970s
We have an email from the logo designer stating they done the logo “our name” in 2017 and re worked it little bit in 2022 (colour variation) this says we have full copyright of this logo
Now it’s came to our attention this week there is another company who are using the exact same bloody name and logo “our name” albeit it in a different colour in a different part of the uk in the same industry. They have added services to the end of their name right enough
Had them phone up stating were copying them as they’ve had this logo since 2021 and they are objecting to
Our trademark application and have filed form
TM7A
Now this company of theirs is limited as “our name” services and changed this from their original Ltd co name in 2019
We own the uk domain name for “our name” also
Basically where do we stand ? This guy is saying he’s traded as this name since 2018 although his ltd co changed in 2019 and he uses practically the same logo but a different colour!
Does he have grounds to object to our trademark and where’s the burden of proof regards to who used that logo first
He’s never had a prior trademark either
And have went limited company in Jan of this year.
This is a logo for “our name” we got done in 2017 that was a remix Of an old logo from a company long bust in the 1970s
We have an email from the logo designer stating they done the logo “our name” in 2017 and re worked it little bit in 2022 (colour variation) this says we have full copyright of this logo
Now it’s came to our attention this week there is another company who are using the exact same bloody name and logo “our name” albeit it in a different colour in a different part of the uk in the same industry. They have added services to the end of their name right enough
Had them phone up stating were copying them as they’ve had this logo since 2021 and they are objecting to
Our trademark application and have filed form
TM7A
Now this company of theirs is limited as “our name” services and changed this from their original Ltd co name in 2019
We own the uk domain name for “our name” also
Basically where do we stand ? This guy is saying he’s traded as this name since 2018 although his ltd co changed in 2019 and he uses practically the same logo but a different colour!
Does he have grounds to object to our trademark and where’s the burden of proof regards to who used that logo first
He’s never had a prior trademark either
That's a bit difficult to understand.
You appear to have trademarked a name not a logo. When exactly was your trademark registered?
The owner of the logo can likely engage a solicitor to write a cease and desist letter to the third party to stop using their logo.
They appear to have got in with their Ltd name before you, so unless they are trying to pass themselves off as you I fear there isn't a lot you can do about that.
You appear to have trademarked a name not a logo. When exactly was your trademark registered?
The owner of the logo can likely engage a solicitor to write a cease and desist letter to the third party to stop using their logo.
They appear to have got in with their Ltd name before you, so unless they are trying to pass themselves off as you I fear there isn't a lot you can do about that.
Edited by Rufus Stone on Friday 10th March 17:45
Rufus Stone said:
That's a bit difficult to understand.
You appear to have trademarked a name not a logo. When exactly was your trademark registered?
The owner of the logo can likely engage a solicitor to write a cease and desist letter to the third party to stop using their logo.
They appear to have got in with their Ltd name before you, so unless they are trying to pass themselves off as you I fear there isn't a lot you can do about that.
Hi sorry, the name and the logo is what we have as a trademark application at the moment You appear to have trademarked a name not a logo. When exactly was your trademark registered?
The owner of the logo can likely engage a solicitor to write a cease and desist letter to the third party to stop using their logo.
They appear to have got in with their Ltd name before you, so unless they are trying to pass themselves off as you I fear there isn't a lot you can do about that.
Edited by Rufus Stone on Friday 10th March 17:45
What I’m saying is I think this other company are going to try and claim that this is their logo (when it’s not) and have objected to our trademark application
It sounds a little 'six of one and half a dozen of the other', from what you have said. I can't see that either party has an obvious long standing claim on the logo over the other party.
If it turns into a legal matter though the only real winners will be the solicitors. Would it be advisable for one of you to bite the bullet and alter your logo so it differs from the other?
If it turns into a legal matter though the only real winners will be the solicitors. Would it be advisable for one of you to bite the bullet and alter your logo so it differs from the other?
Simpo Two said:
Why are they objecting if you had the logo (proveably) four years before they did?
Likely because they were using it before the trademark application was submitted.It appears to me the person that owns the copyright to the logo is the one that should be taking action against the third party. That appears to be the business that purchased it from the artist, and not the Ltd company that has applied for the trademark.
Rufus Stone said:
Simpo Two said:
Why are they objecting if you had the logo (proveably) four years before they did?
Likely because they were using it before the trademark application was submitted.It appears to me the person that owns the copyright to the logo is the one that should be taking action against the third party. That appears to be the business that purchased it from the artist, and not the Ltd company that has applied for the trademark.
This other company has used the same logo as us and has now objected to our trademark we’re the limited company ?
Simpo Two said:
Cole1 said:
This is a logo for “our name” we got done in 2017...
Had them phone up stating were copying them as they’ve had this logo since 2021 and they are objecting...
Why are they objecting if you had the logo (proveably) four years before they did?Had them phone up stating were copying them as they’ve had this logo since 2021 and they are objecting...
Absolute headache
Cole1 said:
We purchased the logo from the design company in 2017
This other company has used the same logo as us and has now objected to our trademark we’re the limited company ?
But 'we' is not the Ltd that was established in Jan 2023.This other company has used the same logo as us and has now objected to our trademark we’re the limited company ?
Who has applied for the trademark, the Ltd or the owner of the copyright?
Cole1 said:
Simpo Two said:
Cole1 said:
This is a logo for “our name” we got done in 2017...
Had them phone up stating were copying them as they’ve had this logo since 2021 and they are objecting...
Why are they objecting if you had the logo (proveably) four years before they did?Had them phone up stating were copying them as they’ve had this logo since 2021 and they are objecting...
Absolute headache
A couple of things to note.
Firstly; copyright. Copyright is automatically assigned to the creator of original content (there is no need or any means to 'officially' register copyright) - in your case, the Graphic Designer would have owned the copyright to your logo. He may well have passed that copyright ownership to you upon receipt of fees but there must exist explicit documented evidence that this is the case or ask then to provide written confirmation.
Regardless of any Trade Mark, if you can prove that you were using your logo before them, then you can claim breach of copyright; normally remedied via a cease-and-desist letter unless you can prove any financial loss as a result of the breach.
Next, whilst rare it's not unheard of for Designers to use the same design for different clients if they believe the two clients are never likely to cross paths. It would be worth doing a little enquiry as to the likelihood of this having happened as both you and the other company would have beef with the designer rather than each other.
Firstly; copyright. Copyright is automatically assigned to the creator of original content (there is no need or any means to 'officially' register copyright) - in your case, the Graphic Designer would have owned the copyright to your logo. He may well have passed that copyright ownership to you upon receipt of fees but there must exist explicit documented evidence that this is the case or ask then to provide written confirmation.
Regardless of any Trade Mark, if you can prove that you were using your logo before them, then you can claim breach of copyright; normally remedied via a cease-and-desist letter unless you can prove any financial loss as a result of the breach.
Next, whilst rare it's not unheard of for Designers to use the same design for different clients if they believe the two clients are never likely to cross paths. It would be worth doing a little enquiry as to the likelihood of this having happened as both you and the other company would have beef with the designer rather than each other.
StevieBee said:
A couple of things to note.
Firstly; copyright. Copyright is automatically assigned to the creator of original content (there is no need or any means to 'officially' register copyright) - in your case, the Graphic Designer would have owned the copyright to your logo. He may well have passed that copyright ownership to you upon receipt of fees but there must exist explicit documented evidence that this is the case or ask then to provide written confirmation.
Regardless of any Trade Mark, if you can prove that you were using your logo before them, then you can claim breach of copyright; normally remedied via a cease-and-desist letter unless you can prove any financial loss as a result of the breach.
Next, whilst rare it's not unheard of for Designers to use the same design for different clients if they believe the two clients are never likely to cross paths. It would be worth doing a little enquiry as to the likelihood of this having happened as both you and the other company would have beef with the designer rather than each other.
Stevie could I email you ?Firstly; copyright. Copyright is automatically assigned to the creator of original content (there is no need or any means to 'officially' register copyright) - in your case, the Graphic Designer would have owned the copyright to your logo. He may well have passed that copyright ownership to you upon receipt of fees but there must exist explicit documented evidence that this is the case or ask then to provide written confirmation.
Regardless of any Trade Mark, if you can prove that you were using your logo before them, then you can claim breach of copyright; normally remedied via a cease-and-desist letter unless you can prove any financial loss as a result of the breach.
Next, whilst rare it's not unheard of for Designers to use the same design for different clients if they believe the two clients are never likely to cross paths. It would be worth doing a little enquiry as to the likelihood of this having happened as both you and the other company would have beef with the designer rather than each other.
I'm a director of a patent and trade mark attorney firm. Fighting these disputes costs money as others have said; however, I'm more than happy to arrange a free consultation with one of my trade mark attorney colleagues, so you have a sense for the scenarios and costs involved. Please PM if you'd like to discuss further.
If one side has the right to stop the other from using the name and/or logo, this may not necessarily take a long time (=money) for a trade mark attorney to work out and resolve. Even if both sides have rights, a simple coexistence agreement would help to avoid future disputes. Finally, there is the option of rebranding which may have a high or a low cost depending on your situation.
Sorry I can't be of more help personally, but my background is in patents and designs, and my knowledge of trade marks is too broad for your specific situation. I agree with what others have said about copyright ownership and passing off being relevant to the discussion.
If one side has the right to stop the other from using the name and/or logo, this may not necessarily take a long time (=money) for a trade mark attorney to work out and resolve. Even if both sides have rights, a simple coexistence agreement would help to avoid future disputes. Finally, there is the option of rebranding which may have a high or a low cost depending on your situation.
Sorry I can't be of more help personally, but my background is in patents and designs, and my knowledge of trade marks is too broad for your specific situation. I agree with what others have said about copyright ownership and passing off being relevant to the discussion.
Cole1 said:
StevieBee said:
A couple of things to note.
Firstly; copyright. Copyright is automatically assigned to the creator of original content (there is no need or any means to 'officially' register copyright) - in your case, the Graphic Designer would have owned the copyright to your logo. He may well have passed that copyright ownership to you upon receipt of fees but there must exist explicit documented evidence that this is the case or ask then to provide written confirmation.
Regardless of any Trade Mark, if you can prove that you were using your logo before them, then you can claim breach of copyright; normally remedied via a cease-and-desist letter unless you can prove any financial loss as a result of the breach.
Next, whilst rare it's not unheard of for Designers to use the same design for different clients if they believe the two clients are never likely to cross paths. It would be worth doing a little enquiry as to the likelihood of this having happened as both you and the other company would have beef with the designer rather than each other.
Stevie could I email you ?Firstly; copyright. Copyright is automatically assigned to the creator of original content (there is no need or any means to 'officially' register copyright) - in your case, the Graphic Designer would have owned the copyright to your logo. He may well have passed that copyright ownership to you upon receipt of fees but there must exist explicit documented evidence that this is the case or ask then to provide written confirmation.
Regardless of any Trade Mark, if you can prove that you were using your logo before them, then you can claim breach of copyright; normally remedied via a cease-and-desist letter unless you can prove any financial loss as a result of the breach.
Next, whilst rare it's not unheard of for Designers to use the same design for different clients if they believe the two clients are never likely to cross paths. It would be worth doing a little enquiry as to the likelihood of this having happened as both you and the other company would have beef with the designer rather than each other.
If you do want to email, the address on my profile is wrong (haven't worked out how to change it) so find me via mobiusagency.org.uk
StevieBee said:
If you do want to email, the address on my profile is wrong (haven't worked out how to change it)
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