Pandering to Customers
Discussion
A main dealer customer recently booked a replacement windscreen for a car one of their other branches sold. We went along and obliged. It soon became apparent, the owner of the car had engaged this local branch for a few snags on the (used) car he had bought from up north.
The customer contacted the nearest branch to him and highlighted that snag list. It also meant he had to drive the car in (about 15 miles) which he had a moan about this to which the CSA responded by filling up the fuel tank. However, the customer got back in touch about other issues which manifested after that visit. It meant the car had to return again to the branch and he was again necked a tank of fuel, 'for the inconvenience'.
When we removed the windscreen, the first question was about why was it being replaced as it was not damaged in any way. In fact, it looked very new, but was not a genuine 'original equipment' part. However, the issue the customer highlighted was not that it was not an authentic dealer part; it was more about the quality of the edge of the glass (the black 'obscuration' band which is silkprinted onto the inside of the glass wasn't perfectly straight on the outer edges in places) . A very specific detail to highlight, but valid nonetheless.
As the constituent/peripheral parts were systematically removed, it also became clear that the car had had some work done to it, specifically on the roof: a vinyl wrap had been applied. The workmanship in that process was of a poor standard as the trims had been patched back on with bits of double-sided tape, and also the cut lines of the vinyl confirmed the wrap was done either on the cheap, or by someone with a limited skill-set (or both). This was highlighted to the service manager who filed it under, 'it is what it is'.
We fitted the new windscreen [to vehicle manufacturer specification] and tried to steer around the issues of the poor quality wrap, such as the roof trims (also wrapped) were stuck down with number plate pads. However, when the car was handed back, the customer complained (to the franchise) that the windscreen did not look like it was in the correct position. The car was re-booked (yep, another squirt of fuel) and we returned a week later to 'have a look'. We once again demonstrated that the issue was with the wrap (and the trims the wrap people took off to apply it). The issue now was that they had taken the car back in so had to be seen to be doing something as they had promised to have a look (three CSAs now involved and nobody read the notes). We messed about with the trims (mainly the full length roof ones) and got them to look much better but you could not hide the obvious: the wrap was just s
te.
Low and behold, the car returned again. The customer was not having it. The Business Manager was now involved and again, said he would 'see what he could do' about the issue. This time, we removed the new windscreen we had fitted and while it was out, painted the original car colour bits that were showing from under the badly applied (gloss black) wrap. It was still st, but looked a lot better once the windscreen was refitted. We insisted that the issue was with the wrap and not the fitment of the windscreen. Everyone agreed, however, the original CSA was now thinking what to do about handing the car back to the customer. She ordered a specialist full valet, inside and out, as well as chucking in a few freebies. Her concern was about her bonus. If the customer completed the (online) customer survey and gave a low rating, she would lose her bonus!
Now, the issue did get resolved but firstly, it was nothing to do with the franchise. Secondly, the customer had got more than a pound of flesh out of the situation, several times! From a business point of view, sales paid for a new windscreen and some other parts on the snag list. In that process, it snowballed into three full-tank fuel freebies; the rubber mats, cuddly toy etc. Added to that was the free detail plus the extra work we did (out of goodwill to help them out as they are a good trade customer but we could easily have invoiced for it). All this so the CSA gets her bonus. So the business gets the double/triple/quadruple jeopardy and the customer gets his car pampered for free.
I see this pandering so much in the motor trade. Customers holding main dealers to ransom knowing they can blackmail with negative reviews to get their way (notwithstanding there are some genuine/justifiable circumstances). In this instance the customer still could return a negative score on the survey so all this would have been in vain.
(Also, I'm convinced of my suspicion that the windscreen we removed was a brand new 'insurance approved' replacement after an accident during the wrap)
The customer contacted the nearest branch to him and highlighted that snag list. It also meant he had to drive the car in (about 15 miles) which he had a moan about this to which the CSA responded by filling up the fuel tank. However, the customer got back in touch about other issues which manifested after that visit. It meant the car had to return again to the branch and he was again necked a tank of fuel, 'for the inconvenience'.
When we removed the windscreen, the first question was about why was it being replaced as it was not damaged in any way. In fact, it looked very new, but was not a genuine 'original equipment' part. However, the issue the customer highlighted was not that it was not an authentic dealer part; it was more about the quality of the edge of the glass (the black 'obscuration' band which is silkprinted onto the inside of the glass wasn't perfectly straight on the outer edges in places) . A very specific detail to highlight, but valid nonetheless.
As the constituent/peripheral parts were systematically removed, it also became clear that the car had had some work done to it, specifically on the roof: a vinyl wrap had been applied. The workmanship in that process was of a poor standard as the trims had been patched back on with bits of double-sided tape, and also the cut lines of the vinyl confirmed the wrap was done either on the cheap, or by someone with a limited skill-set (or both). This was highlighted to the service manager who filed it under, 'it is what it is'.
We fitted the new windscreen [to vehicle manufacturer specification] and tried to steer around the issues of the poor quality wrap, such as the roof trims (also wrapped) were stuck down with number plate pads. However, when the car was handed back, the customer complained (to the franchise) that the windscreen did not look like it was in the correct position. The car was re-booked (yep, another squirt of fuel) and we returned a week later to 'have a look'. We once again demonstrated that the issue was with the wrap (and the trims the wrap people took off to apply it). The issue now was that they had taken the car back in so had to be seen to be doing something as they had promised to have a look (three CSAs now involved and nobody read the notes). We messed about with the trims (mainly the full length roof ones) and got them to look much better but you could not hide the obvious: the wrap was just s
te. Low and behold, the car returned again. The customer was not having it. The Business Manager was now involved and again, said he would 'see what he could do' about the issue. This time, we removed the new windscreen we had fitted and while it was out, painted the original car colour bits that were showing from under the badly applied (gloss black) wrap. It was still s
t, but looked a lot better once the windscreen was refitted. We insisted that the issue was with the wrap and not the fitment of the windscreen. Everyone agreed, however, the original CSA was now thinking what to do about handing the car back to the customer. She ordered a specialist full valet, inside and out, as well as chucking in a few freebies. Her concern was about her bonus. If the customer completed the (online) customer survey and gave a low rating, she would lose her bonus!Now, the issue did get resolved but firstly, it was nothing to do with the franchise. Secondly, the customer had got more than a pound of flesh out of the situation, several times! From a business point of view, sales paid for a new windscreen and some other parts on the snag list. In that process, it snowballed into three full-tank fuel freebies; the rubber mats, cuddly toy etc. Added to that was the free detail plus the extra work we did (out of goodwill to help them out as they are a good trade customer but we could easily have invoiced for it). All this so the CSA gets her bonus. So the business gets the double/triple/quadruple jeopardy and the customer gets his car pampered for free.
I see this pandering so much in the motor trade. Customers holding main dealers to ransom knowing they can blackmail with negative reviews to get their way (notwithstanding there are some genuine/justifiable circumstances). In this instance the customer still could return a negative score on the survey so all this would have been in vain.
(Also, I'm convinced of my suspicion that the windscreen we removed was a brand new 'insurance approved' replacement after an accident during the wrap)
At the other end of the scale, an Aston Martin independent in Norfolk totally messed up a diagnosis on my car and then lied to the bank to keep their money. I got it back via S75, but they got paid to be incompetent (the bank took the hit). I don't expect pandering, but I do expect fairness and honesty.
It's a shame that 'professional complainers' spoil what should be a level playing field.
It's a shame that 'professional complainers' spoil what should be a level playing field.
Simpo Two said:
At the other end of the scale, an Aston Martin independent in Norfolk totally messed up a diagnosis on my car and then lied to the bank to keep their money. I got it back via S75, but they got paid to be incompetent (the bank took the hit). I don't expect pandering, but I do expect fairness and honesty.
It's a shame that 'professional complainers' spoil what should be a level playing field.
As someone who owned a business in the motor trade for 5 years, amongst other things, I can categorically tell you that dealerships/salesmen for vehicles like Ford, Nissan, Toyota, VW, Renault, etc will absolutely bend over backwards for difficult customers (most of the time) because they operate under massively strict rules whereby they get absolutely shafted to pieces by the brand if a customer complains about them. They will lose commission, lose bonus, get a warning, and probably be taken round the back and put to death by firing squad.It's a shame that 'professional complainers' spoil what should be a level playing field.
Contrast that with dealers/salesmen for brands like Aston Martin, Porsche, Ferrari, Bentley, and so on, where frankly, the customer can go f
k themselves, and this will likely all get backed up by the brand. Porsche UK, for example, usually don’t give a toss if some has been treated like dog dirt by one of their dealerships.This is mostly because of the target audience.
£14,000 for used Nissan is probably all the money in the entire world as far as the purchaser thinks, and therefore they want everything to be absolutely f
king perfect. No stonechips, no scratches, no marks on the interior. They literally want it to be like a brand new car and will kick off if it isn’t.I’ve seen a woman go absolutely insane and start shouting at a VW salesmen because she found a stone chip on one of the alloys of a 3 year old Golf she was buying. She pretty much inspected the car on her hands and knees looking for any tiny marks. The salesman was practically begging for her forgiveness and sent arranged to have the wheel painted, some new mats, tank of fuel… etc etc, just to try to make her happy.
Someone purchasing a Porsche or an Aston Martin is generally considered to have plenty of money, and therefore buying a car, no matter how expensive, isn’t such a big deal to them, and they are less likely to be fussy about issues, and weirdly in many cases, much more likely to be treated like dirt by a dealership.
It’s a funny old world.
There may be some truth in that. But my take on it having worked for a couple of car manufacturers at the volume end is that the quality of service was poor, and the car was also poor. So something had to improve. Else you could get poor service but a good car at say BMW.
Also Motab customers are absolutely entitled throbber when it come to their new car paid for by the taxed. They slate everything, so , if you rely on MOTAB to hit your sales volumes you end up with a lower CSI rating. So stupid st like mentioned above becomes the norm.
Oh yes and finally CS monkeys are often very young, don’t own a car and have no ideas what is or Ian it reasonable, coupled with the fact that they are not assertive enough.
Also Motab customers are absolutely entitled throbber when it come to their new car paid for by the taxed. They slate everything, so , if you rely on MOTAB to hit your sales volumes you end up with a lower CSI rating. So stupid s
t like mentioned above becomes the norm.Oh yes and finally CS monkeys are often very young, don’t own a car and have no ideas what is or Ian it reasonable, coupled with the fact that they are not assertive enough.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
There may be some truth in that. But my take on it having worked for a couple of car manufacturers at the volume end is that the quality of service was poor, and the car was also poor. So something had to improve. Else you could get poor service but a good car at say BMW.
Also Motab customers are absolutely entitled throbber when it come to their new car paid for by the taxed. They slate everything, so , if you rely on MOTAB to hit your sales volumes you end up with a lower CSI rating. So stupid st like mentioned above becomes the norm.
Oh yes and finally CS monkeys are often very young, don’t own a car and have no ideas what is or Ian it reasonable, coupled with the fact that they are not assertive enough.
Great use of the word throbber Also Motab customers are absolutely entitled throbber when it come to their new car paid for by the taxed. They slate everything, so , if you rely on MOTAB to hit your sales volumes you end up with a lower CSI rating. So stupid s
t like mentioned above becomes the norm.Oh yes and finally CS monkeys are often very young, don’t own a car and have no ideas what is or Ian it reasonable, coupled with the fact that they are not assertive enough.
Lord Marylebone said:
As someone who owned a business in the motor trade for 5 years, amongst other things, I can categorically tell you that dealerships/salesmen for vehicles like Ford, Nissan, Toyota, VW, Renault, etc will absolutely bend over backwards for difficult customers (most of the time) because they operate under massively strict rules whereby they get absolutely shafted to pieces by the brand if a customer complains about them. They will lose commission, lose bonus, get a warning, and probably be taken round the back and put to death by firing squad.
I have to say that's not my experience of mutliple new cars from those, and similar, manufacturers. Honda used to be good, but they went off a few years ago. Any VW Group company has always been awful. Several times I've used the "just before I do the CSAT survey can I query.....? It hasn't made the slightest difference..
I'd been keen to know the dealer the OP is talking about - I've never heard of tanks of fuel being lashed out, never mind multiple times. The usual drill from dealers is to simply ignore compliants.
.
For giggles, bearing in mind a recent thread, it might be worth pointing out to the car owner that if it's been wrapped they may well have voided the insurance!
Sheepshanks said:
I'd been keen to know the dealer the OP is talking about - I've never heard of tanks of fuel being lashed out, never mind multiple times. The usual drill from dealers is to simply ignore complaints.
I know they did it but I don't know if it was done legitimately. There may even have been words said about it, but I think the car owner played them very well from the moment he got a sniff of weakness. Sorry, will not name franchise as they are still a customer.
Sheepshanks said:
.
I'd been keen to know the dealer the OP is talking about - I've never heard of tanks of fuel being lashed out, never mind multiple times. The usual drill from dealers is to simply ignore compliants.
!
Glassman's experience has all the hall marks of a Nissan dealer ( ask me how I know) He's based in Herts so that means it's most likely a Glyn Hopkin dealership, being directed by Nissan Customer Services at head office.I'd been keen to know the dealer the OP is talking about - I've never heard of tanks of fuel being lashed out, never mind multiple times. The usual drill from dealers is to simply ignore compliants.
!
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Glassman's experience has all the hall marks of a Nissan dealer ( ask me how I know) He's based in Herts so that means it's most likely a Glyn Hopkin dealership, being directed by Nissan Customer Services at head office.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Sorry, but you are wrong. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
I find this incredible that a dealer would pander to customers, but then I haven't been to a main dealer in 20 years. Back then it seemed to be that as soon as the dealer had your money, they no longer cared about the car and would do whatever they could to fob you off.
The tactic seemed to be that the person you asked for on the phone never seemed to be there and then they never bothered returning your calls. I have even had main dealers who were not interested in doing warranty work on a car as it all seemed too much hassle. If they did any work on your car they would make such a mess of it or damage your car so you would never want them to touch it again.
It just seemed to me that they would fob you off and mess you around until you got to the point that you couldn't be bothered to fight anymore and stopped hassling them anymore.
It is one of the reasons I stopped buying new cars so I wouldn't be required to pay £300 for an oil change and have some 18 year old YTS boy scratch the hell out of my car.
Weird, are you seriously telling me main dealers give a st about customer service these days?
The tactic seemed to be that the person you asked for on the phone never seemed to be there and then they never bothered returning your calls. I have even had main dealers who were not interested in doing warranty work on a car as it all seemed too much hassle. If they did any work on your car they would make such a mess of it or damage your car so you would never want them to touch it again.
It just seemed to me that they would fob you off and mess you around until you got to the point that you couldn't be bothered to fight anymore and stopped hassling them anymore.
It is one of the reasons I stopped buying new cars so I wouldn't be required to pay £300 for an oil change and have some 18 year old YTS boy scratch the hell out of my car.
Weird, are you seriously telling me main dealers give a s
t about customer service these days?Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Also Motab customers are absolutely entitled throbber when it come to their new car paid for by the taxed. They slate everything, so , if you rely on MOTAB to hit your sales volumes you end up with a lower CSI rating. So stupid st like mentioned above becomes the norm.
Having Ex in laws who got Motability cars I can 100% confirm this is the case. Always surreal to me as someone who drives sheds going to the in laws house who had never worked a day in their life and them moaning about the Brand new Vauxhall Astra they had just collected and how it was "rubbish on fuel" based on the £5 they put in a time.t like mentioned above becomes the norm.Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 28th February 11:00
I am the customer in this instance - just purchased a Velar for my wife.
My local JLR did not have the correct spec in stock but directed me via the online approved stock to a branch about 1.5hrs away.
Did the deal over the phone and via video call etc, paid on Monday for collection on Friday - excellent service, quick, polite and car seemed as advertised.
Fancy reveal, check over and we set off home. A couple of stone chips and an ok repaired alloy found, that they had already shown us via pictures.
Sales lady and general manager push us heavily to leave a 10/10 review and anything under full marks will cause them issues ‘it’s easy to sell, but the real experience is the after sales’ is spouted to us.
Nearly home and we are playing with all the functions and find the roof blind doesn’t work and there are crisp packets in the pockets of the front seats.
Once home I give it a proper wash and in between all the badges, around the lights and window rubbers there is heavy polish residue that takes an age to remove.
Email sent to the sales lady - no response after 3working days so call her, she asks for a video which we send and she accepts she has received and will be back in touch within the hour.
Another 2 days we call her, she tells us to take it to our nearest JLR as it will be covered under warranty.
Go to our nearest JLR who are excellent and get it booked in, but confirm it wont be covered under warranty as was present on collection - they/us will speak to who we purchased from.
We contact them again and ask them to agree to cover any costs associated to the repair, they say they will as long as we leave a 10/10 review.
Car not in for repair until April 11th and supplying dealer saying they want the review completed in March, i am wanting to hold off until the repair is complete and make sure they do cover any costs.
Getting daily emails and texts from them asking them to complete my 10/10 review.
No apologies for poor prep.
My local JLR did not have the correct spec in stock but directed me via the online approved stock to a branch about 1.5hrs away.
Did the deal over the phone and via video call etc, paid on Monday for collection on Friday - excellent service, quick, polite and car seemed as advertised.
Fancy reveal, check over and we set off home. A couple of stone chips and an ok repaired alloy found, that they had already shown us via pictures.
Sales lady and general manager push us heavily to leave a 10/10 review and anything under full marks will cause them issues ‘it’s easy to sell, but the real experience is the after sales’ is spouted to us.
Nearly home and we are playing with all the functions and find the roof blind doesn’t work and there are crisp packets in the pockets of the front seats.
Once home I give it a proper wash and in between all the badges, around the lights and window rubbers there is heavy polish residue that takes an age to remove.
Email sent to the sales lady - no response after 3working days so call her, she asks for a video which we send and she accepts she has received and will be back in touch within the hour.
Another 2 days we call her, she tells us to take it to our nearest JLR as it will be covered under warranty.
Go to our nearest JLR who are excellent and get it booked in, but confirm it wont be covered under warranty as was present on collection - they/us will speak to who we purchased from.
We contact them again and ask them to agree to cover any costs associated to the repair, they say they will as long as we leave a 10/10 review.
Car not in for repair until April 11th and supplying dealer saying they want the review completed in March, i am wanting to hold off until the repair is complete and make sure they do cover any costs.
Getting daily emails and texts from them asking them to complete my 10/10 review.
No apologies for poor prep.
Blakeatron said:
Car not in for repair until April 11th and supplying dealer saying they want the review completed in March, i am wanting to hold off until the repair is complete and make sure they do cover any costs.
Getting daily emails and texts from them asking them to complete my 10/10 review.
No apologies for poor prep.
Polish residue? That's outrageous! Definitely worth High Court action.Getting daily emails and texts from them asking them to complete my 10/10 review.
No apologies for poor prep.
But they should (a) just have taken the car back and fixed the blind, (2) not badgered you for a review.
Two years ago I bought an XKR by 'click and collect' from a distant dealer. As soon as the car was delivered they wanted a review; my first thought was 'that's a bit sudden'. I held off for a bit to let the car settle in, and it was as well that I did, because after 40 miles the engine blew up. The looming spectre of a review evidently encouraged them to reimburse the £125 I'd lost on VED and insurance
The main issue here is the way Main Dealer's market their 'approved used' standards. Having purchased many AUC's, the standard is woefully low and as a buyer you have to check everything yourself. You can almost guarantee that they haven't checked and certainly haven't properly documented their ten million points. It's buyer beware and you and as a customer you should ask for everything to be rectified ASAP. You're certainly paying a premium for this.
shopper150 said:
The main issue here is the way Main Dealer's market their 'approved used' standards. Having purchased many AUC's, the standard is woefully low and as a buyer you have to check everything yourself. You can almost guarantee that they haven't checked and certainly haven't properly documented their ten million points.
The best way to get a good review is to do the job well... otherwise you're sure to get unhappy customers, extra work and bad reviews. Why is doing something well so hard?Simpo Two said:
The best way to get a good review is to do the job well... otherwise you're sure to get unhappy customers, extra work and bad reviews. Why is doing something well so hard?
Because dealers save money by cutting corners and trusting/naive/elderly people think they are getting a top quality AUC thats been meticulously checked and maintained with no expense spared. Blakeatron said:
I am the customer in this instance - just purchased a Velar for my wife.
My local JLR did not have the correct spec in stock but directed me via the online approved stock to a branch about 1.5hrs away.
Did the deal over the phone and via video call etc, paid on Monday for collection on Friday - excellent service, quick, polite and car seemed as advertised.
Fancy reveal, check over and we set off home. A couple of stone chips and an ok repaired alloy found, that they had already shown us via pictures.
Sales lady and general manager push us heavily to leave a 10/10 review and anything under full marks will cause them issues ‘it’s easy to sell, but the real experience is the after sales’ is spouted to us.
Nearly home and we are playing with all the functions and find the roof blind doesn’t work and there are crisp packets in the pockets of the front seats.
Once home I give it a proper wash and in between all the badges, around the lights and window rubbers there is heavy polish residue that takes an age to remove.
Email sent to the sales lady - no response after 3working days so call her, she asks for a video which we send and she accepts she has received and will be back in touch within the hour.
Another 2 days we call her, she tells us to take it to our nearest JLR as it will be covered under warranty.
Go to our nearest JLR who are excellent and get it booked in, but confirm it wont be covered under warranty as was present on collection - they/us will speak to who we purchased from.
We contact them again and ask them to agree to cover any costs associated to the repair, they say they will as long as we leave a 10/10 review.
Car not in for repair until April 11th and supplying dealer saying they want the review completed in March, i am wanting to hold off until the repair is complete and make sure they do cover any costs.
Getting daily emails and texts from them asking them to complete my 10/10 review.
No apologies for poor prep.
Polish residue should have been obvious at handover tbf. Hardly a deal breaker.My local JLR did not have the correct spec in stock but directed me via the online approved stock to a branch about 1.5hrs away.
Did the deal over the phone and via video call etc, paid on Monday for collection on Friday - excellent service, quick, polite and car seemed as advertised.
Fancy reveal, check over and we set off home. A couple of stone chips and an ok repaired alloy found, that they had already shown us via pictures.
Sales lady and general manager push us heavily to leave a 10/10 review and anything under full marks will cause them issues ‘it’s easy to sell, but the real experience is the after sales’ is spouted to us.
Nearly home and we are playing with all the functions and find the roof blind doesn’t work and there are crisp packets in the pockets of the front seats.
Once home I give it a proper wash and in between all the badges, around the lights and window rubbers there is heavy polish residue that takes an age to remove.
Email sent to the sales lady - no response after 3working days so call her, she asks for a video which we send and she accepts she has received and will be back in touch within the hour.
Another 2 days we call her, she tells us to take it to our nearest JLR as it will be covered under warranty.
Go to our nearest JLR who are excellent and get it booked in, but confirm it wont be covered under warranty as was present on collection - they/us will speak to who we purchased from.
We contact them again and ask them to agree to cover any costs associated to the repair, they say they will as long as we leave a 10/10 review.
Car not in for repair until April 11th and supplying dealer saying they want the review completed in March, i am wanting to hold off until the repair is complete and make sure they do cover any costs.
Getting daily emails and texts from them asking them to complete my 10/10 review.
No apologies for poor prep.
Customer had the roof blind issue, it’s a £1700 fix
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