Cost of submitting a VAT return

Cost of submitting a VAT return

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PurpleFox

Original Poster:

447 posts

92 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
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Hi All

My accountant invoices me after submitting a quarterly VAT return. The last invoice was £344+vat which seems steep to me.

Interested to hear if this is sensible or not?

I compile the data and send to the accountant, they review it, make a couple of tweaks and submit it. I usually get a refund, (property development). My last return was a spend of £33,500 gross with a VAT refund of £3500. There was no income / sales. Less than 100 transactions.


Ham_and_Jam

2,567 posts

104 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
PurpleFox said:
Hi All

My accountant invoices me after submitting a quarterly VAT return. The last invoice was £344+vat which seems steep to me.

Interested to hear if this is sensible or not?

I compile the data and send to the accountant, they review it, make a couple of tweaks and submit it. I usually get a refund, (property development). My last return was a spend of £33,500 gross with a VAT refund of £3500. There was no income / sales. Less than 100 transactions.
Not sure of your specific situation, but 100 invoices that you are already compiling the data for seems a no brainer to submit yourself.

Mr Pointy

11,855 posts

166 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
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How much time would it take for you to do the returns yourself & is that time worth £344?

Wombat3

12,898 posts

213 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
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What's his hourly rate & how long do you reckon he spends on it?

PurpleFox

Original Poster:

447 posts

92 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
One of the juniors does it, surely it can't take more than an hour, I send the data sorted into the correct format in a spreadsheet all totaled up. Cost is fairly consistent being about 10% of the vat refund (around £250 to £350).


Would happily do it myself, I didn't know it was an option to be honest. I will look into it but I don't have any fancy software.

I think he must charge well over £350 an hour, I asked him for some advice this week about the sale of a property, received an email in response which was mostly copy and paste by the looks of it and then followed up with an invoice for £367.50+vat cry

Mr Pointy

11,855 posts

166 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
PurpleFox said:
One of the juniors does it, surely it can't take more than an hour, I send the data sorted into the correct format in a spreadsheet all totaled up. Cost is fairly consistent being about 10% of the vat refund (around £250 to £350).


Would happily do it myself, I didn't know it was an option to be honest. I will look into it but I don't have any fancy software.

I think he must charge well over £350 an hour, I asked him for some advice this week about the sale of a property, received an email in response which was mostly copy and paste by the looks of it and then followed up with an invoice for £367.50+vat cry
If you are going to do this yourself then you should read up on MTD (Making Tax Digital) as the submission needs to be electronic & there are some requirements around how records are kept. Here's one of the more recent threads on the subject:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I don't know how you keep your records but it seems you have a spreadsheet so you could use linking software which will do the upload to HMRC - there are several suggestions in that thread.

Alternatively given your level of transactions have you thought about using something like Xero to run your accounts? If your accountant is doing other tax returns for you maybe ask what package they use or support.

Countdown

42,069 posts

203 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
PurpleFox said:
One of the juniors does it, surely it can't take more than an hour, I send the data sorted into the correct format in a spreadsheet all totaled up. Cost is fairly consistent being about 10% of the vat refund (around £250 to £350).


Would happily do it myself, I didn't know it was an option to be honest. I will look into it but I don't have any fancy software.

I think he must charge well over £350 an hour, I asked him for some advice this week about the sale of a property, received an email in response which was mostly copy and paste by the looks of it and then followed up with an invoice for £367.50+vat cry
He's taking the mick.


PurpleFox

Original Poster:

447 posts

92 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
Mr Pointy said:
If you are going to do this yourself then you should read up on MTD (Making Tax Digital) as the submission needs to be electronic & there are some requirements around how records are kept. Here's one of the more recent threads on the subject:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I don't know how you keep your records but it seems you have a spreadsheet so you could use linking software which will do the upload to HMRC - there are several suggestions in that thread.

Alternatively given your level of transactions have you thought about using something like Xero to run your accounts? If your accountant is doing other tax returns for you maybe ask what package they use or support.
Thanks for the thread link and yes, I have looked into the likes of quickbooks, xero and sage etc but they just seem to do so much more than what I actually need to the point where they are bewildering. I have an old accounting package (Quicken from 2004) which works for me. I appreciate that I will have to move with the times and get something more up to date for MTD.

Will give it another look.

Ham_and_Jam

2,567 posts

104 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
PurpleFox said:
One of the juniors does it, surely it can't take more than an hour, I send the data sorted into the correct format in a spreadsheet all totaled up. Cost is fairly consistent being about 10% of the vat refund (around £250 to £350).


Woulda happily do it myself, I didn't know it was an option to be honest. I will look into it but I don't have any fancy software.

I think he must charge well over £350 an hour, I asked him for some advice this week about the sale of a property, received an email in response which was mostly copy and paste by the looks of it and then followed up with an invoice for £367.50+vat cry
When you say ‘totalled up’, is that already in the box 1-9 format for a VAT return.

Does sound like he is taking the Mick though. I often get advice from my accountant, and don’t get charged other than my normal end of year charges.

Jordie Barretts sock

6,018 posts

26 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
Agree with others. He's having your pants down.

Have a look at Quickbooks or Xero, for your needs should be absolutely simple and cheap. No need to be bewildered, they both have excellent online and phone back up. If you link your business bank account, it becomes even simpler. Should be a hell of a lot cheaper than your accountant. Who, by the way you need to get rid of. Plenty of others out there happy to give you a quote for your annual requirements.

PurpleFox

Original Poster:

447 posts

92 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies.

I remember the reason I didn't go for it last time I investigated.....I have three separate (small) companies and for most of the big online packages that would need three separate subscriptions, albeit they could use the same log-on.

Jordie Barretts sock

6,018 posts

26 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
Even so, three subscriptions would be seriously cheaper than your accountant.

Mr Pointy

11,855 posts

166 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
PurpleFox said:
I remember the reason I didn't go for it last time I investigated.....I have three separate (small) companies and for most of the big online packages that would need three separate subscriptions, albeit they could use the same log-on.
I've had a quick look at Xero & that does seem to be the case & although they say that they apply a discount for multiple companies they don't tell you what it would be. Three Standard Plans would be £252 a quarter less discount.

Do you do three separate VAT returns, one for each company?

REDGTA

160 posts

250 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
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I am using the Anna Money free excel plug-in. It is super simple and the entire making-tax-digital thing is not scary any more..

https://anna.money/free-tools/vat-filing/?utm_sour...

There are other tools.

Douglas Quaid

2,440 posts

92 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
I submit my own. It’s free. Extremely easy. Get xero and do it yourself. It couldn’t be more simple to be honest, you just click a button. If he’s charging you hundreds to click a button he’s ripping you off.

You link your bank account and business credit card to xero and once a week or so just get on and confirm your transactions. It is honestly dead easy.

Every quarter you submit your vat return, but it takes a few seconds that’s all.

Edited by Douglas Quaid on Thursday 9th February 16:24

goingonholiday

284 posts

188 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
Mrs Goingonholiday is a book keeper, one of her clients is a property developer. She handles everything, he just gives her the invoices, hundreds every month. Her rates are a lot lower than accountants rates. I'm pretty sure there are multiple companies and returns involved and the Xero, kashflow, quickbooks fees weren't that bad. Might be worth looking for a local book keeper?

PurpleFox

Original Poster:

447 posts

92 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
Mr Pointy said:
PurpleFox said:
I remember the reason I didn't go for it last time I investigated.....I have three separate (small) companies and for most of the big online packages that would need three separate subscriptions, albeit they could use the same log-on.
I've had a quick look at Xero & that does seem to be the case & although they say that they apply a discount for multiple companies they don't tell you what it would be. Three Standard Plans would be £252 a quarter less discount.

Do you do three separate VAT returns, one for each company?
Only one of the companies is registered for VAT.

robdcfc

523 posts

165 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
When you are logged in on Xero it does have a heading for "add another organisation" I assume this means you can run more than one company on a single log in?

PurpleFox

Original Poster:

447 posts

92 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
Ham_and_Jam said:
PurpleFox said:
One of the juniors does it, surely it can't take more than an hour, I send the data sorted into the correct format in a spreadsheet all totaled up. Cost is fairly consistent being about 10% of the vat refund (around £250 to £350).


Woulda happily do it myself, I didn't know it was an option to be honest. I will look into it but I don't have any fancy software.

I think he must charge well over £350 an hour, I asked him for some advice this week about the sale of a property, received an email in response which was mostly copy and paste by the looks of it and then followed up with an invoice for £367.50+vat cry
When you say ‘totalled up’, is that already in the box 1-9 format for a VAT return.

Does sound like he is taking the Mick though. I often get advice from my accountant, and don’t get charged other than my normal end of year charges.
I export from my accounting package and then put it into their preferred spreadsheet. I have seen the ANNA template with the 1-9 format and it would take me ten minutes to convert. Obviously if I had a better software package there would be no need for the spreadsheet but I expect I would still be charged a fair amount.

I have looked myself this afternoon but getting an error on the gov gateway portal due to the VAT filing being registered to a different gateway, presumably the accountants......

VeeReihenmotor6

2,342 posts

182 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
quotequote all
Does sound a lot if you're doing much of the work but you need to remember the accountant needs to make a living, pay overheads and although the junior is probably leading on the work there will be a senior review internally.

Personally I'd look for other options. Do you really need an Accountant with a big team and assume premises to pay? An online firm might suit you better for rates or as someone else has said why not use a bookkeeper instead and use some property business consultancy services for advice?