BT Analogue to Digital Compulsory Charges
Discussion
Good morning,
Forgive me if this has already been covered but I couldn't find anything in a search.
We are 2 years in to a 7 year phone contract with 5 VOIP phones, and I had a phone call from our supplier last week to tell us that because BT are removing their analogue system, we need to pay £249.99 for the installation of a new line to replace our old copper connection (that is what I understand anyway).
I asked why we would want to pay £250 for something that is of no benefit to us, and that we have not requested (the connection is excellent already), and what would happen if I refused. They said that when the switch off happens that we would simply lose our line and services.
I cannot see how this is legitimate- if BT have decided to remove their old network then surely part of that decision is if the cost is worth replacing the millions of connections to properties, and that they should not be able to force people to pay for their own benefit mid-way through a contract!
Am I right in thinking this is out of order, or is it just one of those things that we have to suck up? I asked for the actual switch off date (as if it wasn't for another 5 years then there is no point us doing it) but they did not have a date- just "it needs to be done soon".
Extract from the email from our supplier below:
Please find attached details for your new SOGEA services we will shortly order to replace your current FTTC connections in line with BT’s plans to withdraw all WLR/analogue products.
As discussed, we will be replacing your analogue line and broadband services on *********** to new SOGEA circuits. The installation charge of £249.99 will be added to your monthly invoice once installed and details of your ongoing monthly costs can be found on the attached document.
Any thoughts/advise welcome, if I have to pay it so be it, but I don't see it as an honest way to do business whilst in contract.
Many thanks, TC.
Forgive me if this has already been covered but I couldn't find anything in a search.
We are 2 years in to a 7 year phone contract with 5 VOIP phones, and I had a phone call from our supplier last week to tell us that because BT are removing their analogue system, we need to pay £249.99 for the installation of a new line to replace our old copper connection (that is what I understand anyway).
I asked why we would want to pay £250 for something that is of no benefit to us, and that we have not requested (the connection is excellent already), and what would happen if I refused. They said that when the switch off happens that we would simply lose our line and services.
I cannot see how this is legitimate- if BT have decided to remove their old network then surely part of that decision is if the cost is worth replacing the millions of connections to properties, and that they should not be able to force people to pay for their own benefit mid-way through a contract!
Am I right in thinking this is out of order, or is it just one of those things that we have to suck up? I asked for the actual switch off date (as if it wasn't for another 5 years then there is no point us doing it) but they did not have a date- just "it needs to be done soon".
Extract from the email from our supplier below:
Please find attached details for your new SOGEA services we will shortly order to replace your current FTTC connections in line with BT’s plans to withdraw all WLR/analogue products.
As discussed, we will be replacing your analogue line and broadband services on *********** to new SOGEA circuits. The installation charge of £249.99 will be added to your monthly invoice once installed and details of your ongoing monthly costs can be found on the attached document.
Any thoughts/advise welcome, if I have to pay it so be it, but I don't see it as an honest way to do business whilst in contract.
Many thanks, TC.
Edited by topcat1 on Tuesday 7th February 11:33
Your supplier is being extremely opportunistic here. BT Local Business?
It sounds like you are already using a VOIP system over an FTTC connection.
The PSTN switch off in 2025 is much misunderstood. When you rent a traditional copper line from Openreach, technical name Wholesale Line Rental 3 (WLR3), you get a pair of copper wires from your premises back to the local exchange connected to the PSTN - this is what provides the dial tone when you plug a phone in. The cable usually goes from your premises to a Distribution Point either up a pole or in a chamber, where it connects to a multi core cable which goes to a green cabinet which aggregates lots of connections onto a really big cable carrying hundreds of pairs of wires back to the exchange.
There is another product called a Metallic Path Facility that is similar, but rather than connecting to the PSTN it connects to a third party providers voice equipment in the exchange - the big ISP’s like Sky and TalkTalk have been deploying these for years so they get the call revenue.
FTTC is delivered from a cabinet placed next (or close to) the green cabinet. When you take FTTC, the copper wire pair serving your house is connected across to a port on the FTTC cabinet. The data element of your connection goes via the fibre from the FTTC cabinet to the handover exchange - which may or may not be your local exchange as only around 1 in 4 exchanges is a handover exchange. FTTP is similar, just the fibre goes to a passive splitter node and a fibre from the splitter goes to the premises.
The 2025 PSTN switch off will essentially remove the copper connection from the green cab back to the exchange. There will still be copper to the premises (unless the area is fully covered by FTTP), but it will only go as far as the cab to enable connection to an FTTC delivered data service. This means all voice calls will need to be delivered over some sort of VOIP service.
SOGEA stands for Single Order Generic Ethernet Access and has been available for a while now. Historically to get FTTC you needed to order a WLR3 or MPF first, then add FTTC on top. SOGEA just allows a single order to be placed for FTTC. There is no technical difference at all on the FTTC side.
Openreach haven’t yet made it clear how CP’s are supposed to move all their WLR/MPF customers to SOGEA, but they have said they will need to before the switch off. There won’t need to be any physical changes, it’s really just an administrative/billing change. There is certainly no justification for charging you £250 for doing this, but any business putting customers on 7 year contracts for voice services is almost certainly operating from the less reputable end of the industry, and I’m not surprised they’re trying it on. I’d bet the salesperson made out they were doing you a favour by fixing your costs for 7 years.
Ultimately Openreach will have to offer something that allows CP’s to move these services at no cost or every CP will banging on Ofcom’s door. My advice would be to sit and wait for now, but I’d ask the supplier which clause in the contract they’re relying on levy this charge given there is no underlying cost to them and if they persist you will submit a complaint to Ofcom.
Incidentally, I still provision new connections on WLR3’s because we put a few on SOGEA early on and had problems with Openreach engineers stealing customers live copper pairs because they thought they were unused because there is no dial tone on the line!
It sounds like you are already using a VOIP system over an FTTC connection.
The PSTN switch off in 2025 is much misunderstood. When you rent a traditional copper line from Openreach, technical name Wholesale Line Rental 3 (WLR3), you get a pair of copper wires from your premises back to the local exchange connected to the PSTN - this is what provides the dial tone when you plug a phone in. The cable usually goes from your premises to a Distribution Point either up a pole or in a chamber, where it connects to a multi core cable which goes to a green cabinet which aggregates lots of connections onto a really big cable carrying hundreds of pairs of wires back to the exchange.
There is another product called a Metallic Path Facility that is similar, but rather than connecting to the PSTN it connects to a third party providers voice equipment in the exchange - the big ISP’s like Sky and TalkTalk have been deploying these for years so they get the call revenue.
FTTC is delivered from a cabinet placed next (or close to) the green cabinet. When you take FTTC, the copper wire pair serving your house is connected across to a port on the FTTC cabinet. The data element of your connection goes via the fibre from the FTTC cabinet to the handover exchange - which may or may not be your local exchange as only around 1 in 4 exchanges is a handover exchange. FTTP is similar, just the fibre goes to a passive splitter node and a fibre from the splitter goes to the premises.
The 2025 PSTN switch off will essentially remove the copper connection from the green cab back to the exchange. There will still be copper to the premises (unless the area is fully covered by FTTP), but it will only go as far as the cab to enable connection to an FTTC delivered data service. This means all voice calls will need to be delivered over some sort of VOIP service.
SOGEA stands for Single Order Generic Ethernet Access and has been available for a while now. Historically to get FTTC you needed to order a WLR3 or MPF first, then add FTTC on top. SOGEA just allows a single order to be placed for FTTC. There is no technical difference at all on the FTTC side.
Openreach haven’t yet made it clear how CP’s are supposed to move all their WLR/MPF customers to SOGEA, but they have said they will need to before the switch off. There won’t need to be any physical changes, it’s really just an administrative/billing change. There is certainly no justification for charging you £250 for doing this, but any business putting customers on 7 year contracts for voice services is almost certainly operating from the less reputable end of the industry, and I’m not surprised they’re trying it on. I’d bet the salesperson made out they were doing you a favour by fixing your costs for 7 years.
Ultimately Openreach will have to offer something that allows CP’s to move these services at no cost or every CP will banging on Ofcom’s door. My advice would be to sit and wait for now, but I’d ask the supplier which clause in the contract they’re relying on levy this charge given there is no underlying cost to them and if they persist you will submit a complaint to Ofcom.
Incidentally, I still provision new connections on WLR3’s because we put a few on SOGEA early on and had problems with Openreach engineers stealing customers live copper pairs because they thought they were unused because there is no dial tone on the line!
Edited by quinny100 on Thursday 9th February 20:32
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