cheating the system
Discussion
I had to go vat registered a whlie back, and have a query...
I discuss projects with new clients, agree a working specification, and right before we start after everything is agreed issue them with a VAT invoice.
Trouble is, clients often at the last minute, change their mind. About the price. Spec. Sometimes even whether they want a web site at all. And they are left with a nice VAT receipt with a big fat vat figure.
What happens to these invoices, and what should I do? I make a note for my accountants that the invoice/project was cancelled.
Can clients put these invoices through, claim vat, and get away with it. Im assuming becuase I have a vat number they cant, or dont, and certainly shouldnt...
bottom line... should I only invoice them when they have paid, or...?
I discuss projects with new clients, agree a working specification, and right before we start after everything is agreed issue them with a VAT invoice.
Trouble is, clients often at the last minute, change their mind. About the price. Spec. Sometimes even whether they want a web site at all. And they are left with a nice VAT receipt with a big fat vat figure.
What happens to these invoices, and what should I do? I make a note for my accountants that the invoice/project was cancelled.
Can clients put these invoices through, claim vat, and get away with it. Im assuming becuase I have a vat number they cant, or dont, and certainly shouldnt...
bottom line... should I only invoice them when they have paid, or...?
UK Bob
Am I right in thinking that you get paid up front?
If so in your situation I would issue a proforma invoice, then when you get paid issue a real invoice.
If you want to remove 'real' invoices off your accounting system, you will need to raise a credit note to the same value, thus cancelling the Net amount and the VAT
Hope that helps
davidy
Am I right in thinking that you get paid up front?
If so in your situation I would issue a proforma invoice, then when you get paid issue a real invoice.
If you want to remove 'real' invoices off your accounting system, you will need to raise a credit note to the same value, thus cancelling the Net amount and the VAT
Hope that helps
davidy
davidy said:50/50, 50/90/10, or third/third/third is the payment structure, whatever suits clients.
UK Bob
Am I right in thinking that you get paid up front?
If so in your situation I would issue a proforma invoice, then when you get paid issue a real invoice.
If you want to remove 'real' invoices off your accounting system, you will need to raise a credit note to the same value, thus cancelling the Net amount and the VAT
Hope that helps
davidy
What bugs me is clients to say they are ready to begin, some quite quickly with little conversation, and end up with a vat invoice and I never hear from them again. Im not sure if quickbooks generates proforma invoices
Basic rule of VAT is that you raise a VAT invoice when the work is done and issue it to your customer. Your customer claims the Input VAT on the invoice, you pay the VAT the Output VAT on the invoice.
If the invoice is not paid in full for some reason, there are a number of options, depending on the circumatsances.
If you have agreed with your customer to reduce the level of your fee - because of a renegotiation or because you made some errors in providing the goods or services, then you should issue a Sales Credit Note. That will allow you to claim back from the VAT man an element of the Output VAT you originally declared on the Sales Invoice. Converssely, your customer should ensure that he should process the Credit Note so that he "unclaims" the original Input VAT.
If your customer refuses to pay you and becomes a bad debt, you can claim back the original Output VAT on the Sales Invoice by claiming VAT Bad Debt Relief. You are obliged under VAT law to notify your customer that you are writing off the original Sales Invoice. This should then ensure that he pays back to the VAT man the Input VAT he originally claimed.
If the invoice is not paid in full for some reason, there are a number of options, depending on the circumatsances.
If you have agreed with your customer to reduce the level of your fee - because of a renegotiation or because you made some errors in providing the goods or services, then you should issue a Sales Credit Note. That will allow you to claim back from the VAT man an element of the Output VAT you originally declared on the Sales Invoice. Converssely, your customer should ensure that he should process the Credit Note so that he "unclaims" the original Input VAT.
If your customer refuses to pay you and becomes a bad debt, you can claim back the original Output VAT on the Sales Invoice by claiming VAT Bad Debt Relief. You are obliged under VAT law to notify your customer that you are writing off the original Sales Invoice. This should then ensure that he pays back to the VAT man the Input VAT he originally claimed.
UKBob
What Eric says is 100% correct. We do consultancy work but only issue proforma invoices rarely. Usually we just invoice (as Eric says) when the work is done.
We too are Quickbooks users (haven't found a proforma invoice capability), but when we require a proforma invoice we just raise it in Excel.
We also never issue invoices without a purchase order (written) from our customer, so they have at least made a committment.
davidy
What Eric says is 100% correct. We do consultancy work but only issue proforma invoices rarely. Usually we just invoice (as Eric says) when the work is done.
We too are Quickbooks users (haven't found a proforma invoice capability), but when we require a proforma invoice we just raise it in Excel.
We also never issue invoices without a purchase order (written) from our customer, so they have at least made a committment.
davidy
Proformas are a bit of a "loophole" in the VAT regulations in that something that LOOKS like an invoice can be raised (and can even show the VAT content etc). However, it is not a valid VAT invoice so the issuer does not declare the Output VAT on the "proforma" and the customer cannot claim back the "Input VAT" on the proforma.
They play merry hell with computer based invoicing systems as you should not really enter invoices onto your computer until a real, genuine, bona fide invoice (i.e. NOT a proforma) is issued. Obviously, if you delay raising and entering invoices onto your book-keeping system until your customer actually pays you, you are losing some of the major benefits of the credit control function of your system.
They play merry hell with computer based invoicing systems as you should not really enter invoices onto your computer until a real, genuine, bona fide invoice (i.e. NOT a proforma) is issued. Obviously, if you delay raising and entering invoices onto your book-keeping system until your customer actually pays you, you are losing some of the major benefits of the credit control function of your system.
I hate pro-formas too. I regard them as a sort of premature 'invoice' whose sole purpose is to enable the client to raise a Purchase Order, if that's the way they work. Sending in an invoice before the project is done or even fully agreed is a recipe for admin headaches.
My normal route is:
1) Discuss project
2) Send estimate
3) If accepted, request PO
4) Do work
5) Send Invoice
6) Receive payment
If changes are made during the course of the project which increase the cost, I say so at the time. For projects lasting longer than a month I usually ask for stage payments, usually on a work-to-date basis.
My normal route is:
1) Discuss project
2) Send estimate
3) If accepted, request PO
4) Do work
5) Send Invoice
6) Receive payment
If changes are made during the course of the project which increase the cost, I say so at the time. For projects lasting longer than a month I usually ask for stage payments, usually on a work-to-date basis.
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