Discussion
I feel like I'm doing something wrong in life as I never seem to take advantage of concessions like my CGT allowance and pay myself for using my own vehicle for business use etc.
How can I be more tax efficient and make use of these? What do I have that I can sell at a profit to benefit? Shares, my body?
Eric, if you answer this please let me paypal some money to you!
How can I be more tax efficient and make use of these? What do I have that I can sell at a profit to benefit? Shares, my body?
Eric, if you answer this please let me paypal some money to you!
Eric is right, these guys do so much training and are generally dull for a reason - their brains are consumed by ways and means to help you around paying too much!
Accountants are only the beginning though, and you should avoid any over-reliance on them. Not all tax products and schemes are available through all accountants, and the quality of a/ct varies massively. In the end, like all things, you will generally get what you pay for.
By the way YHM shortly which you may find interesting.
Accountants are only the beginning though, and you should avoid any over-reliance on them. Not all tax products and schemes are available through all accountants, and the quality of a/ct varies massively. In the end, like all things, you will generally get what you pay for.
By the way YHM shortly which you may find interesting.
Trying to "arrange" your tax affairs in an artificial manner in order to optimise your tax liability might fall foul of "tax avoidance" regulations. Just because a scheme or plan complies with the letter of the tax law does not mean that it will be allowed.
Creating an "artificial" Capital Gain just to trigger your annual allowance is distinctly frowned upon by the Inland Revenue and is not really allowed.
Creating an "artificial" Capital Gain just to trigger your annual allowance is distinctly frowned upon by the Inland Revenue and is not really allowed.
Why oh why is everything so difficult. Even when you're following the rules, it can be deemed that you were actually being sneaky - case of husband and wife companies etc?
Why are ministers allowed to claim for trips to EU parliment meetings etc despite sitting at home, employ family members for secretarial duties (licking stamps) and other such scams where as the rest of us have to not only play by the rules but not even use them to our advantage!
Why are ministers allowed to claim for trips to EU parliment meetings etc despite sitting at home, employ family members for secretarial duties (licking stamps) and other such scams where as the rest of us have to not only play by the rules but not even use them to our advantage!
No offence to Eric but all the accountants I have ever had have simply been number crunchers. I give them the books and they churn out my accounts. I’ve never had an accountant come back to me and say “do you realise by doing X you are paying this much more tax, you would be better off doing Y”.
However, I have identified several instances myself (either by accident or word of mouth from business contacts) where I’ve changed my practices and saved on tax. So they were obviously there to be seen. It’s just the accountant never pointed them out to me. He just did my accounts based on the books provided.
I think you need a financial advisor for proactive tax advice not an accountant.
>> Edited by t1grm on Thursday 2nd June 13:22
However, I have identified several instances myself (either by accident or word of mouth from business contacts) where I’ve changed my practices and saved on tax. So they were obviously there to be seen. It’s just the accountant never pointed them out to me. He just did my accounts based on the books provided.
I think you need a financial advisor for proactive tax advice not an accountant.
>> Edited by t1grm on Thursday 2nd June 13:22
t1grm said:
No offence to Eric but all the accountants I have ever had have simply been number crunchers. I give them the books and they churn out my accounts. I’ve never had an accountant come back to me and say “do you realise by doing X you are paying this much more tax, you would be better off doing Y”.
However, I have identified several instances myself (either by accident or word of mouth from business contacts) where I’ve changed my practices and saved on tax. So they were obviously there to be seen. It’s just the accountant never pointed them out to me. He just did my accounts based on the books provided.
I think you need a financial advisor for proactive tax advice not an accountant.
>> Edited by t1grm on Thursday 2nd June 13:22
Nah - you need a decent accountant!! You also need to tell them that you are willing to pay for tax planning - lots of people aren't and we won't do the work for free (remember we are in business too).
Proper tax planning costs money, it can not only save you vast sums of tax however it also makes you consider what you want out of your business. Most people have a 'business plan' even if only in their heads but few consider their personal objectives for afterwards and lets face it selling a business or extracting cash from a business is really where you need tax planning.
It always amazes me that people who run successful business's can't see that you get what you pay for. Its the same with accountancy as anything else. You wouldn't employ a salesman because they were cheap, you'd employ them because they could sell.
erm that seems to have turned into a bit of a rant, sorry about that!
Ali-D, spot on 
What's more, many clients never contact their accountants either. They just sit back and wait for advice to "flow". Both parties should maintain contact and a "casual" relationship. This makes the client feel relaxed about asking their accountant questions.It takes two to tango.
Accountants as a group are not often very "people" orientated so they come across as dour and uncommunicable. However, we're not all like that
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Thursday 2nd June 14:37
What's more, many clients never contact their accountants either. They just sit back and wait for advice to "flow". Both parties should maintain contact and a "casual" relationship. This makes the client feel relaxed about asking their accountant questions.It takes two to tango.
Accountants as a group are not often very "people" orientated so they come across as dour and uncommunicable. However, we're not all like that
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Thursday 2nd June 14:37
I'd agree with Eric and Ali, we changed accountants last year and although we do pay a fair bit more the value is much greater (and they like cars). The do much more than just the 'books' year end and stuff, they are a great sounding board to the effect that we run all sorts of things past them and usually get very good advice.
Look at another way, if you are an accountant and spend a lot of time learning all this stuff then you will wecome someone actually stretching you a bit
The other thing to do (is this now a how to find a decent accountant thread?) is to find an accountant who understands your business, ie our last accountant has a lot of customers who are traditional tradespeople, builders and the like, he understands their businesses and the tax implications very well. An IT company like ours was however beyond his field of experience and so when we mentioned things like R&D tax credits he would change the subject. Our current accountant does really understand our business amd the difference is immense.
The other thing I would suggest is to review the account every couple of years, although chanign is a pain it is sometimes worthwhile getting another acocuntant to have a look through the books to make sure yours is not missing anything.
D
Look at another way, if you are an accountant and spend a lot of time learning all this stuff then you will wecome someone actually stretching you a bit
The other thing to do (is this now a how to find a decent accountant thread?) is to find an accountant who understands your business, ie our last accountant has a lot of customers who are traditional tradespeople, builders and the like, he understands their businesses and the tax implications very well. An IT company like ours was however beyond his field of experience and so when we mentioned things like R&D tax credits he would change the subject. Our current accountant does really understand our business amd the difference is immense.
The other thing I would suggest is to review the account every couple of years, although chanign is a pain it is sometimes worthwhile getting another acocuntant to have a look through the books to make sure yours is not missing anything.
D
I begrudge the level of Tax which this country burdens us with - it's far greater than what is reasonable in my view.
In order to maximise my Tax planning, I have a cunning method which has served me well over time. In short, I utilise two Tax consultants and I let them both know that I'm also dealing with their competitor. That way they know that their advice will be scrutinised by another consultant and they try to "out do" each other in pragmatic Tax planning advice. It works for me, having saved me a lot over the years.
In order to maximise my Tax planning, I have a cunning method which has served me well over time. In short, I utilise two Tax consultants and I let them both know that I'm also dealing with their competitor. That way they know that their advice will be scrutinised by another consultant and they try to "out do" each other in pragmatic Tax planning advice. It works for me, having saved me a lot over the years.
Eric Mc said:
How do they sort thing out from a professional ethics point of view? If they are memebers of recognised accounting or tax institutes, they would be obliged to let each one know what the other is doing.
Beats me, that's there problem! All I know is, is that it works for me. If I've got a medical condition I'm perfectly entitled to get a second opinion, so I take the principle with Tax advice.
Eric Mc said:
Just wondering. I assume, however, that one of them must be your official main "tax agent" and that the other is merely acting in an advisory role.
Correct. The main chappie is ex-Inland Revenue (game keeper turned poacher) - he does my Tax return every year. I have to say he's very good, but he knows that as soon as there's any poor advice he'll be caught out! As I said, it works for me.
srebbe64 said:
In short, I utilise two Tax consultants and I let them both know that I'm also dealing with their competitor. That way they know that their advice will be scrutinised by another consultant and they try to "out do" each other in pragmatic Tax planning advice.
A pity you can't rely on one 'professional' to do the job 100% properly. I thought that's what you were supposed to get...?
Quote from paper today (Sun!)
Euro war on expenses:
Brussels chiefs are demanding hte 'gravy training' Euro MPs accompany their expenses claims with RECEIPTS.
At the moment that are allowed to pocket thousands in first-class travel expenses even if they cycle to meetings!
In future they may only be reimbursed for what they spent.
I could scream! Would I be able to make up a load of b/sh1t expenses and put nothing more than notes in my accounts? I'd be hung drawn and qtr'd.
Euro war on expenses:
Brussels chiefs are demanding hte 'gravy training' Euro MPs accompany their expenses claims with RECEIPTS.
At the moment that are allowed to pocket thousands in first-class travel expenses even if they cycle to meetings!
In future they may only be reimbursed for what they spent.
I could scream! Would I be able to make up a load of b/sh1t expenses and put nothing more than notes in my accounts? I'd be hung drawn and qtr'd.
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