Can we sue a new recruit who hasn't started?
Discussion
In December, we offered a senior position to a candidate which she accepted, due to start in early April.
This is an important position within the company and much has been pinned on her presence here, particularly in one key sector in which we work.
We've committed to considerable spend already in advance of her starting.
Now, with three weeks to go, the signs are that she is getting cold feet, asking for a latter start date without giving a reason and the like.
Question is, if she doesn't join us, do we have any legal recourse for the money we have already spent, etc?
Or is it just one huge pain in the @rse?
This is an important position within the company and much has been pinned on her presence here, particularly in one key sector in which we work.
We've committed to considerable spend already in advance of her starting.
Now, with three weeks to go, the signs are that she is getting cold feet, asking for a latter start date without giving a reason and the like.
Question is, if she doesn't join us, do we have any legal recourse for the money we have already spent, etc?
Or is it just one huge pain in the @rse?
No - assuming she has not yet signed a contract which is in force already (and even then you'd be onto a loser really)
Yes - Huge Pain. gutted
Matt.
Edited to Add... you could always ask her outright if she's got any issues that need discussing.. a quick tweak of a renumeration package could go a long way to solving your problem.
>> Edited by M@H on Wednesday 9th March 14:21
Yes - Huge Pain. gutted
Matt.
Edited to Add... you could always ask her outright if she's got any issues that need discussing.. a quick tweak of a renumeration package could go a long way to solving your problem.
>> Edited by M@H on Wednesday 9th March 14:21
Just sack the HR manager for being such a knob and picking the wrong person.
Lets face it someone screwed up !!!
Imadgine if the law allowed you to sue someone, okay so they'd turn up on day one, go off sick for a week, resign, go off sick for 3 months and then finish.
I know my Doctor would sign that sick note (He'll do anything that 'helps the little man or woman')
Lets face it someone screwed up !!!
Imadgine if the law allowed you to sue someone, okay so they'd turn up on day one, go off sick for a week, resign, go off sick for 3 months and then finish.
I know my Doctor would sign that sick note (He'll do anything that 'helps the little man or woman')
jacko lah said:
Just sack the HR manager for being such a knob and picking the wrong person.
I think thats a bit harsh... anything could have happened in the new employees personal life in the last couple of months to make them change their mind or re-assess their goals, the HR manager can't be blamed for that.
Matt.
Alternatively, sack the directors and the HR manager for mis-managing the company to the point where a single individual (and not even someone who has been integral to the operation of the company for years!) can cause serious disruption by not being there.
If the company is properly managed, one individual should not be so key to its operation. People get offered better jobs, get sick, get killed in accidents...all sorts of things. It is up to the management to make sure that these sort of glitches are not critical.
If the company is properly managed, one individual should not be so key to its operation. People get offered better jobs, get sick, get killed in accidents...all sorts of things. It is up to the management to make sure that these sort of glitches are not critical.
jacko lah said:
Just sack the HR manager for being such a knob
Well, that would be me then!
Whilst understanding your tone, without being aware of the background information, I don't see how you (and Martin S) can make assumed judgement as to the abilities of my fellow Directors or me.
Had you been, you would not have posted the replies you did.
Forums place things into the public domain and I have no intention of publishing potentially libellous details about a situation that may well be resolved anyway.
I was just after a bit of freindly advice in case it doesn’t – that’s all!
steviebee said:I think you'll find he was pulling your leg.
Just sack the HR manager for being such a knob
Well, that would be me then!
Whilst understanding your tone, without being aware of the background information, I don't see how you (and Martin S) can make assumed judgement as to the abilities of my fellow Directors or me.
Had you been, you would not have posted the replies you did.
Forums place things into the public domain and I have no intention of publishing potentially libellous details about a situation that may well be resolved anyway.
I was just after a bit of freindly advice in case it doesn’t – that’s all!
I was being tongue-in-cheek about the sacking bit!
And not intending to make any judgements about anyone's abilities as a director, but this is one of the most basic rules of HR management.
You simply cannot rely on one individual being there; too many random events could prevent it.
If you insist on taking such extreme gambles with your business, you really can't complain if things go pear shaped.
Friendly advice? : Make sure you don't disproprtionately expose yourself with a single risk.
Same goes for clients, etc. : no single individual, client, product, or whatever, should ever be so crucial to a business that you can't afford to lose them.
And not intending to make any judgements about anyone's abilities as a director, but this is one of the most basic rules of HR management.
You simply cannot rely on one individual being there; too many random events could prevent it.
If you insist on taking such extreme gambles with your business, you really can't complain if things go pear shaped.
Friendly advice? : Make sure you don't disproprtionately expose yourself with a single risk.
Same goes for clients, etc. : no single individual, client, product, or whatever, should ever be so crucial to a business that you can't afford to lose them.
Martin_S said:
I was being tongue-in-cheek about the sacking bit!
And not intending to make any judgements about anyone's abilities as a director, but this is one of the most basic rules of HR management.
You simply cannot rely on one individual being there; too many random events could prevent it.
If you insist on taking such extreme gambles with your business, you really can't complain if things go pear shaped.
Friendly advice? : Make sure you don't disproprtionately expose yourself with a single risk.
Same goes for clients, etc. : no single individual, client, product, or whatever, should ever be so crucial to a business that you can't afford to lose them.
I agree on all counts and practice all you preach.
If this particular person was not start, there are plenty of others out there equally suitable but it would be another 4 to 5 months before we would see them working here.
The business' survival and growth is certainly not dependant upon her (or anyone individual with the possible exception of me), but her contribution to it would be great and expidate growth into new markets more so than without her.
The money we have spent on the assumption that she will be starting is money we would have spent anyway - just not right now.
The emphasis of my original post should perhaps be on the "pain in th @rse" bit!
Cutting through the vitriol, I do appreciate the advice.
One of the companies I run in Bristol specialises in Marketing and PR recruitment. During the last 2 months we have noticed a massive increase in demand for well qualified Account Directors etc for this particular market sector.
Your situation, should it prove to turn out negatively is unfortunately indicitive of a high demand for particular skillsets in your marketplace at present, we have had it happen to us with one of our clients recently where an offer was accepted and the candidate was subsequently made a better offer elsewhere and declined to start. Its very annoying to say the least, but unless you know exactly what she is after for herself in terms of career prospects and renumeration its difficult to know if she is 100% happy with the offer you have made.
This may well not be the case and there could well be other contributing factors such as travelling distance or changes in her personal situation, howver the best thing to try and do would be to approach her in an open way and voice your concerns, hoping things may be resolved.
If you have used an agency to fill this post, then they should ahve all the facts. check with them.
Hope it works out.
Your situation, should it prove to turn out negatively is unfortunately indicitive of a high demand for particular skillsets in your marketplace at present, we have had it happen to us with one of our clients recently where an offer was accepted and the candidate was subsequently made a better offer elsewhere and declined to start. Its very annoying to say the least, but unless you know exactly what she is after for herself in terms of career prospects and renumeration its difficult to know if she is 100% happy with the offer you have made.
This may well not be the case and there could well be other contributing factors such as travelling distance or changes in her personal situation, howver the best thing to try and do would be to approach her in an open way and voice your concerns, hoping things may be resolved.
If you have used an agency to fill this post, then they should ahve all the facts. check with them.
Hope it works out.
911nutter said:You're not allowed to think things like that, let alone say them.
she
therein lies the problem.
everytime i have hired a 'she' there have been untold problems, grief and issues. in my experience it's like throwing good money after bad.
i shall say no more.
superlightr said:
ask her if she is pregnant?
(oh my what a can of worms that would be! - )
>> Edited by superlightr on Friday 11th March 19:27
Don't get me started on that one!!
As it turns out - there is an issue but not an insurmountable one ( and one that is understandable).
So thanks for the feedback. I can rest easy knowing I no longer have to sack myself!
go on whats the gist of the understandable reason......
her gay lesbian lover is having a sex change?
she is pregnant?
she is having a sex change
she works for Labour and thinks they may now get re-elected and she wont get sacked?
she has just bought a holiday home in France and the paperwork is taking longer then expected?
Her asylum claim 7th appeal is on the start date?
She wont be released from prison until then?
she has some other sensitive persoanl matter that really is understandable and boy does it makes this postlook very insensitive?
her gay lesbian lover is having a sex change?
she is pregnant?
she is having a sex change
she works for Labour and thinks they may now get re-elected and she wont get sacked?
she has just bought a holiday home in France and the paperwork is taking longer then expected?
Her asylum claim 7th appeal is on the start date?
She wont be released from prison until then?
she has some other sensitive persoanl matter that really is understandable and boy does it makes this postlook very insensitive?
An employment contract is not enforceable until the individual has started work. When my mate chucked his job over to become the HR Director of a small Building Society he had no recourse against them when they dropped him a line a few days before he was due to start saying "We don't want you any more" The same applies th eother way around
A second question is that if the person is so unenthusiatic about joining you - is this something you really want to pursue?....
A second question is that if the person is so unenthusiatic about joining you - is this something you really want to pursue?....
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