Fraud

Author
Discussion

b17nns

Original Poster:

18,506 posts

254 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
We have recently discovered a fraud at work.

The person in question was dismissed shortly before we discovered the fraud but we had our suspicions and after we had 'let her go' we started to investigate.

Anyway, we have found that she has helped herself to nearly £50k so far but we suspect a lot more.

My question is this.

There are a few transactions on our bank statement (they are online payments which she has disguised as payments to suppliers).

The transactions do not show an account number or sort code and the people sho are supposed to have received them (the suppliers) havent.

So how do I find out where the money ended up?

john75

5,303 posts

254 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
Bank should be able to help with this also Local Police as they can access stuff that you can not.

PetrolTed

34,443 posts

310 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
Speak to the bank/police?

b17nns

Original Poster:

18,506 posts

254 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
not involved the police yet.

we are going the private prosecution route (apparently more chance of recovery).

Our bank are proving a little unhelpful.

AC79xxx

62,260 posts

256 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
You'll need to do some forensic accountancy I'm afraid but it's worth chasing.

Mrs AC had suspicions that one of her employees was taking the company for a ride a couple of years ago when all this guy's accounts were 2 - 3 months late. She did a bit of digging and found out he'd either pocketed or snorted £15k+ worth of commercial rents.

He spent all last summer behind bars even though it was his first offence.

Definitely speak to the BiB.

mudfish

151 posts

253 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
You'll find data protection hard to get around.
Get the Bobbies onto it.

rude-boy

22,227 posts

240 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
b17nns said:
We have recently discovered a fraud at work.

The person in question was dismissed shortly before we discovered the fraud but we had our suspicions and after we had 'let her go' we started to investigate.

Anyway, we have found that she has helped herself to nearly £50k so far but we suspect a lot more.

My question is this.

There are a few transactions on our bank statement (they are online payments which she has disguised as payments to suppliers).

The transactions do not show an account number or sort code and the people sho are supposed to have received them (the suppliers) havent.

So how do I find out where the money ended up?


1. Call the bank, get them to pull all their records on transactions from any accounts she had access to in the last 3 months, 6 if you can handle the paperwork. If you have specific dates/trasactions you are worried about tell them that you want those in particular. they will have records of where all payments were made to.

2. Go see your Solicitor and fast, like this afternoon or tomorrow morning. Don't take any 'next week crap' you need to act NOW and fast.

Didn't read profile so not sure where you are but make sure that you get the best possible solicitor for the job, one who has a good understanding of these things, a proper Civil Litigation expert (rotwhiler), not some PI bod or General Private Client law.

They will tell you that you need to alert the Police, and you will have to, but first you want to see them to get them to slap a freezing order on all her assets asap. You will also need to sue her to recover your assets.

Think how much you know about this woman as well. If she is likely to have assets such a a house, etc then you would be well advised to try to recover and you may well get it all back. If not you may have to write it all off.

b17nns

Original Poster:

18,506 posts

254 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
We have already received a copy of every cheque we have written for the past 2 years. (This took months)

We have a solicitor (a very good one) who specialises in this kind of matter.

So far we have had a judgement put against her for just under £30k (all we had evidence for at the time) and have since had a bankruptcy order passed by the court so she is now bankrupt.

She is still refusing to speak to our solicitor and appears to have no representation.

She lives locally, had worked for us for 16 years.

These other transactions that we have found are different to the other type of activity she has used.

I think these transactions point to another account somewhere where she might have diverted nearly £70k.

I need to know how to find out where this money ended up.

Davel

8,982 posts

265 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
Suspect only the BiB will be able to do this, through the fraud squad.

Data Protection Act makes it very difficult otherwise.

Good luck though - don't you just hate this type of thing.....

b17nns

Original Poster:

18,506 posts

254 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
Davel said:
don't you just hate this type of thing.....


she nearly sent us under.

words fail to describe how angry it has made me.

JonRB

76,120 posts

279 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
Embezzlement is a criminal act, isn't it? In which case you probably have little choice but to involve the Police.

Eric Mc

122,860 posts

272 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
NCIS will probably have to be notified too - plus your accountants/auditors.

steviebee

13,600 posts

262 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
Is it just me or is this sort of thing becoming more prevelant?

Is it a question of fraud or did she screw up monumentaly and tried to cover her tracks, digging a bigger hole. (I think I know the answer though!)

Might be worth employing a private detective. I would have thought that £50k + will somehow show. If she was driving a Corsa and now owns a Crossfire, then one has to ask why?

Either way, good luck.

poorcardealer

8,542 posts

248 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all


The police you will find a joke in fraud cases.......this sounds like theft and false accountancy which the police are a little more adept at sorting out, but dont expect a fraud squad investigation for amounts less than £250K.I am afraid you will probably get a uniformed P.C........I am speaking from recent experience and i wish I hadnt involved the police as they were useless.

2 Smokin Barrels

30,609 posts

242 months

Monday 24th January 2005
quotequote all
Just to be really cheerful, if you've found £50k already the total is likely to be double that! Get the experts involved ASAP.

b17nns

Original Poster:

18,506 posts

254 months

Tuesday 25th January 2005
quotequote all
we have people on it already.

our accountants are involved.

we now have evidence of her stealing (either by cheques or internet transfers from our account to hers) just shy of £50,000.

we have not yet contacted the police for the precise reasons some of you have already mentioned.

we have a good firm of solicitors (this is one of their specialist areas) dealing with the case.

we have had a judgement awarded in court for an interim payment of around £25k.

She has of course defaulted on this and will not reply to our solicitors.

We have made her bankrupt. The receivers have been appointed and this should be progressing shortly.

We have suspicions however of another £70k. The reason for this is that last year our cashflow was in a very poor state. On analysing our year end figures it became apparent that cash into the bank was £70k short of the amount we had invoiced despite very little bad debt.

She has 'lost' all of our paying in books for the period.

We suspect she has opened an account in our name and as and when clients have paid by cheque it has been a case of 'one for me, one for you'.

We need to find evidence of this account.

We have a few transactions on our statements that show as BACS payments to suppliers. The suppliers
however have not received these payments.

My question is how (when my bank says it is not possible) do I find out where these transfers ended up.

If we find out the account number and sort code we can obtain a court order to have a look and hopefully find more evidence.

Eric Mc

122,860 posts

272 months

Tuesday 25th January 2005
quotequote all
GO TO THE POLICE.

They should be able to obtain a warrant allowing them to seize her personal bank and credit card records which might show the income she allegedly defrauded from your business going into her bank accounts(s) or funding credit card expenses.

If you do not involve the police, you will probably get nowhere.

I would like to know what types of controls there were in the company (or lack of same) which allowed this individual to perpetrate this fraud over a period of time and, more imporatantly, what steps has the company made to cut down the liklehood of this happening again.

poorcardealer

8,542 posts

248 months

Tuesday 25th January 2005
quotequote all


LET US KNOW HOW THE POLICE PERFORM IF YOU DO GO.

JustTheTip

1,035 posts

243 months

Thursday 3rd February 2005
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Hey Ben, how's things? Any developments?

Chin up buddy!