Credit card chargeback
Discussion
Humph.
I did some filming work last October (yep, one YEAR ago) for a client. It was on a Sunday and whilst we normally ask the client to be present, he preferred to go windsurfing instead. He wasn't entirely satisfied with what we did, but we did our best and without guidance, we were left entirely to our own devices to decide what to film and from what abgle etc. Payment was by credit card, in two chunks of roughly £740 and £215. We delivered the goods and no more was heard about it.
Today I get a letter from my CC company saying that 'the cardholder claims not to have authorised or participated in this purchase' and if I do nothing they will take the money back from my account.
It may all be a mistake, or perhaps it's 'buyer's remorse'. Anyway, before I ring the culprit up, I'd be very interested in your views on the matter. Thanks guys!
I did some filming work last October (yep, one YEAR ago) for a client. It was on a Sunday and whilst we normally ask the client to be present, he preferred to go windsurfing instead. He wasn't entirely satisfied with what we did, but we did our best and without guidance, we were left entirely to our own devices to decide what to film and from what abgle etc. Payment was by credit card, in two chunks of roughly £740 and £215. We delivered the goods and no more was heard about it.
Today I get a letter from my CC company saying that 'the cardholder claims not to have authorised or participated in this purchase' and if I do nothing they will take the money back from my account.
It may all be a mistake, or perhaps it's 'buyer's remorse'. Anyway, before I ring the culprit up, I'd be very interested in your views on the matter. Thanks guys!
Well. I'd get in touch with your soon to be ex-customer a.s.a.p.
Clearly you are in dispute over the goods/services. Is this *really* the first you've heard of his dissatisfaction? Hell of way to tell you!
I'd go in with the "Clearly there is a problem. What is it that you are unhappy with." approach.
If he doesn't want to tell you then I'm afraid the Credit Card Company will take the loot back - nowt you can do about it. We lose some money every year to people who get their CD (we have a "home" software package) and then never contact us and just claim their money back from the CC company.
You are lucky in that you know who the customer is. In our volume business it is virtually impossible to work out who has decided not to pay...
Clearly if your customer gets his money back you can then dispute this yourself. That amount of money could be dealt with in small claims court.
BUT a lot less hassle for both of you would be to negotiate. Find out why he's not happy. Fix it if possible. If he's just determined to cheat you you'll end up doing small claims...
Clearly you are in dispute over the goods/services. Is this *really* the first you've heard of his dissatisfaction? Hell of way to tell you!
I'd go in with the "Clearly there is a problem. What is it that you are unhappy with." approach.
If he doesn't want to tell you then I'm afraid the Credit Card Company will take the loot back - nowt you can do about it. We lose some money every year to people who get their CD (we have a "home" software package) and then never contact us and just claim their money back from the CC company.
You are lucky in that you know who the customer is. In our volume business it is virtually impossible to work out who has decided not to pay...
Clearly if your customer gets his money back you can then dispute this yourself. That amount of money could be dealt with in small claims court.
BUT a lot less hassle for both of you would be to negotiate. Find out why he's not happy. Fix it if possible. If he's just determined to cheat you you'll end up doing small claims...
Having refreshed myself with the matter, once he had seen the footage on VHS, he then asked us to grab specific stills and put them on CD for him (which we did). I would have thought that constituted acceptance of the work - for if he was not happy, he wouldn't have asked us to do this!
The bank say that such a long period is very unusual. Never mind, I'm a bit too peeved at present to call him; I'll collect my thoughts, scribble down likely protests and answers (the kind you never think of on the spur) and go in tomorrow.
Time for one of my favourite mottos: 'Tread softly but carry a big stick'
The bank say that such a long period is very unusual. Never mind, I'm a bit too peeved at present to call him; I'll collect my thoughts, scribble down likely protests and answers (the kind you never think of on the spur) and go in tomorrow.
Time for one of my favourite mottos: 'Tread softly but carry a big stick'
how long after the event can you do this then , i would have thought it would only be a few weeks tops 
The brutal reality is that you're knackered.
We get this all the time, it costs us a fortune and 99% of the time there's bugger all you can do about it.
Credit card law, like family law, favours the bullshitting cardholder to an extent that's equally bankrupt morally or ethically. The card issuers just aren't interested in your obviously hooky whining...
You're a merchant? Tough sh1t - you can afford it, so in the twinkle of a cardholder's eye, you get the money effectively stolen from your bank account and your only redress is the impossibly time consuming tedium of legal action which you'll lose anyway because of the merchant agreement you signed in the first place...
It's a first class fit up and no mistake. It f@cking stinks but without B.M.Ussolini at No.10 there's naff all to do but cry into thine Boddies.
The one time we actually had the time to follow one up, the perp was a commercial airline pilot (I kid ye not) who, on moving house thought it might be a neat idea to scam several grands' worth of electrical kit, by taking delivery at the recently departed, now critically unregistered address, thence to spirit it away to Mock Tudor Res B and deny all knowledge...
I was up for a stoning when this one broke but fortunately the local CID fancied it and eventually arrested the thieving toe-rag, dragged him up to the a northern cells and gave him a right going over: the bloke had his brief with him and was Captain Cocksure but he was banged to rights (Guv)...broke down in the interview, apparently, confessed everything...the police got onto the card authorities and due purely to their intervention, within 7 days we had our cash back.
Captain Shagger got away with a caution and was told not to be so naughty again lest he feel the wrath of Big Vern in C block but that's the only time in 15 years I've seen a result.
Join your local mafia, it's a damn sight cheaper and far more effective on a time-management basis. Plus, regional crime lords are slightly less slithery than the card authorities.
Arkwright.
>> Edited by Derestrictor on Thursday 14th October 15:38
It's true, they're a bugger.
I sell the odd bit of shareware, one of which is a bit of novelty amusement called AutoInsult which generates random insults in a variety of styles.
Every so often I get a chargeback, usually because 13 year-old Johnny has taken a break from a late-night porn-surfing w*nkfest and nicked his mum's credit card to register my shareware.
Mum get's her bill, says "What's this $14 / £7.80 (*) doing on my bill?" (* delete as applicable), does a chargeback and little Johnny gets my software for free, the bastard.
But I still have to pay the sodding fees though, so, worse, I've just PAID little Johnny to use my software.
I sell the odd bit of shareware, one of which is a bit of novelty amusement called AutoInsult which generates random insults in a variety of styles.
Every so often I get a chargeback, usually because 13 year-old Johnny has taken a break from a late-night porn-surfing w*nkfest and nicked his mum's credit card to register my shareware.
Mum get's her bill, says "What's this $14 / £7.80 (*) doing on my bill?" (* delete as applicable), does a chargeback and little Johnny gets my software for free, the bastard.
But I still have to pay the sodding fees though, so, worse, I've just PAID little Johnny to use my software.
Blimey, DeR! How disgraceful!
We sell a software package that one of our people wrote for a laugh one time to help his Mrs Feng Shui the house. We all took the piss and got on with our business systems stuff.
Sorted out an on-line shop. Took credit cards. Bingo - we're selling hundreds.
Its all gone out of fashion now but we still sell the odd one and its money for old rope.
So all that is by the by. What our experience is is that regularly we do not get our cash...
We sell a software package that one of our people wrote for a laugh one time to help his Mrs Feng Shui the house. We all took the piss and got on with our business systems stuff.
Sorted out an on-line shop. Took credit cards. Bingo - we're selling hundreds.
Its all gone out of fashion now but we still sell the odd one and its money for old rope.
So all that is by the by. What our experience is is that regularly we do not get our cash...
[quote=Derestrictor you get the money effectively stolen from your bank account [/quote]
If I can't reason with the client (ex-client) I shall seriously consider taking all the funds out of my business account and closing it.
Then they can sue me if they want, and I can say 'bog off'. I can handle a CCJ if it means saving £1,000; I have all the credit I need.
What do you think?
If I can't reason with the client (ex-client) I shall seriously consider taking all the funds out of my business account and closing it.
Then they can sue me if they want, and I can say 'bog off'. I can handle a CCJ if it means saving £1,000; I have all the credit I need.
What do you think?
simpo two said:Yes, but the trouble is the chargeback comes out of your merchant account with the credit card company, not your bank account.
If I can't reason with the client (ex-client) I shall seriously consider taking all the funds out of my business account and closing it.
So you would have the credit card company on your back, not the customer.
If you feel happy never being able to take credit card payments again, then by all means go ahead. Otherwise you're somewhat over a barrel.
JonRB said:
So you would have the credit card company on your back, not the customer.
Oh yes, I realise that.
JonRB said:
If you feel happy never being able to take credit card payments again, then by all means go ahead. Otherwise you're somewhat over a barrel.
£1,000 is worth far more to me than a CC facility - whic I only took out to satisfy one particular customer who's no longer trading. If I need to take payment in advance, which is what it was used for, a bank transfer is probably better anyway as there are no chargebacks. And all my customers are businesses, not consumers.
Thanks for the input: anything else I should look out for as I strap my flak-jacket on?
I get a couple of chargebacks every other day. No word from the buyer, no exchange, no discussion...people just buy and chargeback. It's a way of life for some.
Absolutely nobody is interested in what the vendor has to say, it's got to the point now where I just treat it as par for the course because arguing about them grinds everything else to a halt.
This is a strange one: I currently use eSellerate who are complete w*nkers, the guy I previously posted about initiated his chargeback three months after the buy, which you would think would alert anyone to the fact he's a thief and a fraudster! I contested it for a further three months and eventually, flippantly, said hey, charge it back I've had enough...which they did. I was furious as I meant it sarcastically. This was for a few thousand $ so it wasn't like chickenfeed. eSellerate, which I'm really sick of now, take over a month to pay out as well as charging extortionate commission.
I digress, my point...Paypal has quiet a poor reputation, yet now and then for stuff like custom development I'll let people pay on that. Along comes Mr. Ripoff, gets software done but 36 days later decides to pull the chargeback trick. Paypal though emailed me saying it wont process it as its over 30 days later! I thought that was pretty cool actually and I'm now in the process of moving all of my payment processing to paypal, which is about 8 times cheaper than esellerate too.
Chargebacks, how I hate them.
Absolutely nobody is interested in what the vendor has to say, it's got to the point now where I just treat it as par for the course because arguing about them grinds everything else to a halt.
This is a strange one: I currently use eSellerate who are complete w*nkers, the guy I previously posted about initiated his chargeback three months after the buy, which you would think would alert anyone to the fact he's a thief and a fraudster! I contested it for a further three months and eventually, flippantly, said hey, charge it back I've had enough...which they did. I was furious as I meant it sarcastically. This was for a few thousand $ so it wasn't like chickenfeed. eSellerate, which I'm really sick of now, take over a month to pay out as well as charging extortionate commission.
I digress, my point...Paypal has quiet a poor reputation, yet now and then for stuff like custom development I'll let people pay on that. Along comes Mr. Ripoff, gets software done but 36 days later decides to pull the chargeback trick. Paypal though emailed me saying it wont process it as its over 30 days later! I thought that was pretty cool actually and I'm now in the process of moving all of my payment processing to paypal, which is about 8 times cheaper than esellerate too.
Chargebacks, how I hate them.
Some people are complete vermin: last month, a bloke came in and spent just over £3k on something I won't mention because it morally offends Wedg1e (
).
This chump signed for it in store, took it away with him and that, was that...or so we thought.
Only yesterday, the merchant services sent their routine "cardholder disputes the transaction" chargeback form.
Basically, respond in 7 days or we'll nick your cash.
Now, this cheeky bastard had signed in-store, we have a copy of the signiature and it was the shop manager who served him (and yes, we always check the signiatures [which can never be 100% anyway])!
Point is, this will be one where the chargeback is successfully rebutted with a glorious "get stuffed" and yet it doesn't stop the outrageous abuse of credit card merchant terrorism by unscrupulous sheisters.
A return to the simplified glories of poultry-based barter.
And the stocks, ruddy villains.
). This chump signed for it in store, took it away with him and that, was that...or so we thought.
Only yesterday, the merchant services sent their routine "cardholder disputes the transaction" chargeback form.
Basically, respond in 7 days or we'll nick your cash.
Now, this cheeky bastard had signed in-store, we have a copy of the signiature and it was the shop manager who served him (and yes, we always check the signiatures [which can never be 100% anyway])!
Point is, this will be one where the chargeback is successfully rebutted with a glorious "get stuffed" and yet it doesn't stop the outrageous abuse of credit card merchant terrorism by unscrupulous sheisters.
A return to the simplified glories of poultry-based barter.
And the stocks, ruddy villains.
Derestrictor said:
Some people are complete vermin: last month, a bloke came in and spent just over £3k on something I won't mention because it morally offends Wedg1e (
This chump signed for it in store, took it away with him and that, was that...or so we thought.
Only yesterday, the merchant services sent their routine "cardholder disputes the transaction" chargeback form.
Basically, respond in 7 days or we'll nick your cash.
Now, this cheeky bastard had signed in-store, we have a copy of the signiature and it was the shop manager who served him (and yes, we always check the signiatures [which can never be 100% anyway])!
Point is, this will be one where the chargeback is successfully rebutted with a glorious "get stuffed" and yet it doesn't stop the outrageous abuse of credit card merchant terrorism by unscrupulous sheisters.
A return to the simplified glories of poultry-based barter.
And the stocks, ruddy villains.
Blimey! How on earth does he think he's going to get away with that!
Could it have been a "joint" card and there's been a row with the Mrs or something?
Some people...
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