Car share........ (Radical)
Discussion
Just looking into buying a Radical as a shared car. Basically we would rent the car out to people on trackdays & also have days where we could use it ourselves. This would allow us to have days that are paid for & hopefully also some return on the investment. It wouldnt be a large investment & dont foreseen the value of the car dropping much if at all... so was wondering whether anyone would be interested in having a share??
Nick
PS. if you are seriously interested then pls email me!
Nick
PS. if you are seriously interested then pls email me!
It would be insured for trackdays... that wouldnt be a problem. If one of the punters writes it off then they pay the excess & we get the money from the insurance!
Althought to be honest if they look like they are gonna crash it... ie driving carelessly or recklessly, then they would be pulled in, either by me or one of the marshalls.
Althought to be honest if they look like they are gonna crash it... ie driving carelessly or recklessly, then they would be pulled in, either by me or one of the marshalls.
laserblues2 said:
It would be insured for trackdays... that wouldnt be a problem. If one of the punters writes it off then they pay the excess & we get the money from the insurance!
Umm.... that would work for a private policy and you driving the car. But you are proposing an 'any driver' policy - and you are also doing it for commercial gain: 'hire or reward'. Hence you will get fleeced I fear.
Be interested to see how your numbers add up. I reckoned it was a nice idea but you'd have to run several cars to make it worthwhile. Are you going to do transport and trackside support?
Plus, in spite of what the factory say I suspect Radicals are quite expensive to run.
AdrianR
p.s. Typical track day insurance doesn't cover engines, gearboxes or loss of use
Plus, in spite of what the factory say I suspect Radicals are quite expensive to run.
AdrianR
p.s. Typical track day insurance doesn't cover engines, gearboxes or loss of use
laserblues2 said:
At present I rent an Elise out... I have never had to pay OTT for this policy & its an any driver policy.... insurance isnt a prob!
ah - Simpo clarified what I was getting at....does the tax man know you rent your elise out? there is a big difference between getting an 'any driver' policy just cos you happen to lend your car to people and a 'getting a policy cos this is a commercial venture'
im nr St Albans.....
OK looking for investors of £3k each, there would be 5 investors in total! This gives a budget to buy the car, have a trailer/transport for it & also money for advertising it!
Why does the tax man need to know (aside from income tax) that lots of people are driving it on track? The car isnt driven by anyone else on the roads...
We would hope to give a return of 10% of the £3k although the main reason for it, is to have a bit of fun & have few (if any) personal costs, other than the £3k which could be returned when sold or a new investor comes in?
Nick
Why does the tax man need to know (aside from income tax) that lots of people are driving it on track? The car isnt driven by anyone else on the roads...
We would hope to give a return of 10% of the £3k although the main reason for it, is to have a bit of fun & have few (if any) personal costs, other than the £3k which could be returned when sold or a new investor comes in?
Nick
laserblues2 said:
Why does the tax man need to know (aside from income tax) that lots of people are driving it on track? The car isnt driven by anyone else on the roads...
You'll be receiving money which means you'll need to keep accounts: you can't run a business like this 'under the table'. However my point is still the original one: once you start using your car for hire or reward, insurance becomes a very different matter. Nobody's going to insure you on anything like normal terms if they know that you'll be making money out of letting people (very likely) damage your car. Forgive me for countering your enthusiasm, but you really need to think this through and get some quotes from an insurance broker. You are planning a high profile, high risk business where things can go very wrong.
But if you can address all the potential pitfalls now, good luck
laserblues2 said:
OK looking for investors of £3k each, there would be 5 investors in total! This gives a budget to buy the car, have a trailer/transport for it & also money for advertising it! Nick
Silent investors? Take our money and you deal with it all, in return for a regular cheque and some free rides?
Or would we need to be involved?
£15k? so you're stumping up the other £40k?
Where would the car live..
£3k one off? or £3k plus share on ongoing expenses.
etc
Always interested in a good punt, but the devil is in the details!
Jamie...
The car would probably live @ my house, as if we were to get premises to keep it then we are wasting money!! The car is not an SR3/4, but a Clubsport, so the intial costs are much much lower... £15k includes everything. A £10k car, some £ for a trailer & some £ for advertising etc! Also leaves a little for a contingency plan if the thing needs work!
So the £3k is a one off.... if this worked & was very successful we could look at 2nd/3rd/4th cars in the future?! Although there would be no commitment to get involved with those ideas or plans.
Basically it would be nice if we could all market & sell the car to potential users & therefore make some more money. The car could either be taken to the circuit by myself, or an instructor or tdo. Or if one of the investors does want to take it then thats another possiblity.
Where are you based??
Sorry forgotten the other person posting about insurance.... trust me this has been considered & I know that its covered for the prices mentioned. It does not matter to the insurance that it is being hired out... & has not affected the track insurance used on my Elise ever.....
Yes it is a slightly different venture to mine & everything would be announced to the tax man.... but @ present I havent needed to with my car!
Any more questions??
Any serious interest? If so pls email me, as the car is currently up for sale & is a very good one!! We'd need to move asap!
Thanks, Nick
The car would probably live @ my house, as if we were to get premises to keep it then we are wasting money!! The car is not an SR3/4, but a Clubsport, so the intial costs are much much lower... £15k includes everything. A £10k car, some £ for a trailer & some £ for advertising etc! Also leaves a little for a contingency plan if the thing needs work!
So the £3k is a one off.... if this worked & was very successful we could look at 2nd/3rd/4th cars in the future?! Although there would be no commitment to get involved with those ideas or plans.
Basically it would be nice if we could all market & sell the car to potential users & therefore make some more money. The car could either be taken to the circuit by myself, or an instructor or tdo. Or if one of the investors does want to take it then thats another possiblity.
Where are you based??
Sorry forgotten the other person posting about insurance.... trust me this has been considered & I know that its covered for the prices mentioned. It does not matter to the insurance that it is being hired out... & has not affected the track insurance used on my Elise ever.....
Yes it is a slightly different venture to mine & everything would be announced to the tax man.... but @ present I havent needed to with my car!
Any more questions??
Any serious interest? If so pls email me, as the car is currently up for sale & is a very good one!! We'd need to move asap!
Thanks, Nick
And in reply to your questions...
Ok, so you have the insurance angle covered. I take that point and trust that you know what you are talking about.
Id like to know how you arrive at the 10% return.
I have based that return as the car being rented for 12 trackdays a year, each costing £795, after maintance and running costs (including £1k allowance for bodywork) there will be enough money to give a return (10% is a guide) or slightly less and allow the shareholders to run a few owners trackdays. The return given would depend heavily on the amount of owners trackdays that we do!!
Id also like to know how comprehensive your costs analysis is?
The cost analysis includes a full engine rebuild once a year (at the max cost poss) it also includes 3 sets of tyres & 1 set of brakes. Obviously this is extreme considering the car has assumed to be used for 12 rental track days & 4/5 owners track days. I have also allowed £400 for oil & filters.
Whats the estimated fuel usage per event ?
This has been estimated at £90 per event.
Estimated life of tyres and cost?
Tyres should last fairly well, as they can last up to 3/4 race meetings. I do not foresee the car being driven that hard & also at race meetings they have to have better grip etc etc. So I feel 3 sets of tyres for 16 track days is adequate!
Estimated life and cost of suspension / bushes / wearable through high use parts ?
Suspension should not wear out that quickly & I would estimate having to have a renewal once every 2 years. The car would hopefully be rented slightly more in the 2nd year, therefore allowing money to be saved (for when this is necessary)/spent on these costs. There is also an intial contigency budget which would be saved in case of any problems/emergencies!
Cost of fuel to all events bearing in mind distance etc ?
As each event is a different distance, I had budgeted allowing the customer to pay for delivery of the car at a reasonable rate. This rate would only cover the costs of getting the car to the day.
Cost of the trackdays themselves and how many there are throughout the year?
The cost of the trackday is generally covered by the user of the vehicle & we may be able to do some deals to include both, depending on the tdo & event.
Cost of the helmet that would have to be made available ? how many sizes would we need ? Can there be a hire charge on the helmet ?
We could hire helmets, although as this is a specialist trackday car, I would personally prefer to target those drivers who are trackday regulars & should have their own helmet. I have 2 helmets of different sizes that could be used initially if necessary tho.
Would word of mouth marketing be the only real advertising initially ?
In the 1st year I have budgeted £1k for advertising. Not a huge budget but should allow us to have some pistonheads advertising & also in a magazine or 2. We may be able to get Circuit Driver to do a deal or advertise in their magazine!
Cost of servicing and of inspection after each outing ?
Cost of servicing & inspection after each day is minimal...
I could go on but...... anyway. I dont want to sound harsh in this post, but its best to consider everything.
If you have any other questions, pls feel free to ask them! Either on here or email me!
So anyone serious about investing....??
Nick
Ok, so you have the insurance angle covered. I take that point and trust that you know what you are talking about.
Id like to know how you arrive at the 10% return.
I have based that return as the car being rented for 12 trackdays a year, each costing £795, after maintance and running costs (including £1k allowance for bodywork) there will be enough money to give a return (10% is a guide) or slightly less and allow the shareholders to run a few owners trackdays. The return given would depend heavily on the amount of owners trackdays that we do!!
Id also like to know how comprehensive your costs analysis is?
The cost analysis includes a full engine rebuild once a year (at the max cost poss) it also includes 3 sets of tyres & 1 set of brakes. Obviously this is extreme considering the car has assumed to be used for 12 rental track days & 4/5 owners track days. I have also allowed £400 for oil & filters.
Whats the estimated fuel usage per event ?
This has been estimated at £90 per event.
Estimated life of tyres and cost?
Tyres should last fairly well, as they can last up to 3/4 race meetings. I do not foresee the car being driven that hard & also at race meetings they have to have better grip etc etc. So I feel 3 sets of tyres for 16 track days is adequate!
Estimated life and cost of suspension / bushes / wearable through high use parts ?
Suspension should not wear out that quickly & I would estimate having to have a renewal once every 2 years. The car would hopefully be rented slightly more in the 2nd year, therefore allowing money to be saved (for when this is necessary)/spent on these costs. There is also an intial contigency budget which would be saved in case of any problems/emergencies!
Cost of fuel to all events bearing in mind distance etc ?
As each event is a different distance, I had budgeted allowing the customer to pay for delivery of the car at a reasonable rate. This rate would only cover the costs of getting the car to the day.
Cost of the trackdays themselves and how many there are throughout the year?
The cost of the trackday is generally covered by the user of the vehicle & we may be able to do some deals to include both, depending on the tdo & event.
Cost of the helmet that would have to be made available ? how many sizes would we need ? Can there be a hire charge on the helmet ?
We could hire helmets, although as this is a specialist trackday car, I would personally prefer to target those drivers who are trackday regulars & should have their own helmet. I have 2 helmets of different sizes that could be used initially if necessary tho.
Would word of mouth marketing be the only real advertising initially ?
In the 1st year I have budgeted £1k for advertising. Not a huge budget but should allow us to have some pistonheads advertising & also in a magazine or 2. We may be able to get Circuit Driver to do a deal or advertise in their magazine!
Cost of servicing and of inspection after each outing ?
Cost of servicing & inspection after each day is minimal...
I could go on but...... anyway. I dont want to sound harsh in this post, but its best to consider everything.
If you have any other questions, pls feel free to ask them! Either on here or email me!
So anyone serious about investing....??
Nick
Suggest you talk to Willie Ball (WilliamBall here, he of Tuscan Challenge car fame) since he has set up and run exactly such a company for a couple of years.
(Was on www.trackdaycarhire.co.uk, but seems to have disappeared - wonder why!).
(Was on www.trackdaycarhire.co.uk, but seems to have disappeared - wonder why!).
Was that the same outfit as Richard Ellingworth?
I hired his Formula Renault a couple of times - 2nd time was much more expensive; claimed he'd had to take out a lot of public liability and motor traders cover to cover him and his mechanic for supporting cars at track.
I can see how it could work as a members only syndicate, but hiring dangerous toys to 3rd parties is a whole different ball game. How do you intend to protect investors against liability claims for negligence in, say case of personal injusry due to an accident allegedly caused by mechanical failure?
AdrianR
I hired his Formula Renault a couple of times - 2nd time was much more expensive; claimed he'd had to take out a lot of public liability and motor traders cover to cover him and his mechanic for supporting cars at track.
I can see how it could work as a members only syndicate, but hiring dangerous toys to 3rd parties is a whole different ball game. How do you intend to protect investors against liability claims for negligence in, say case of personal injusry due to an accident allegedly caused by mechanical failure?
AdrianR
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff