Employment terminated whilst sick
Discussion
A friends husband started a new job in January 2004 which was going well until he was taken ill at the middle of May 2004. Doctors kept signing him off suffering from palpitations, chest pains & panic attacks. Doctors put it down to stress. He is still being treated for stress and also depression. To be fair to him it is not work related and he has had a torrid time in the last year and was in quite a bad way when I saw him a few weeks ago.
His employer, a small company employing about 20 people, didn't provide any pay except the standard SSP or whatever it is (about £300 pm) but that is not an issue here.
They owner of the business rang him to find out what was happening at the beginning of July. He told them what was going on, that he was still having different blood tests etc to eliminate various other ailments and that he could not give any indication of when he would be likely to return to work.
In the middle of July the boss came to visit him and told him that they would have to let him go as they needed to cover his work and they needed to get someone else. So a few days later his wage slip & P45 turn up, he was paid 1 weeks notice and for some outstanding holiday due.
Now finally my question,
Can they do this? He said that since starting work with this company that he has not signed a contract of any sort.
His employer, a small company employing about 20 people, didn't provide any pay except the standard SSP or whatever it is (about £300 pm) but that is not an issue here.
They owner of the business rang him to find out what was happening at the beginning of July. He told them what was going on, that he was still having different blood tests etc to eliminate various other ailments and that he could not give any indication of when he would be likely to return to work.
In the middle of July the boss came to visit him and told him that they would have to let him go as they needed to cover his work and they needed to get someone else. So a few days later his wage slip & P45 turn up, he was paid 1 weeks notice and for some outstanding holiday due.
Now finally my question,
Can they do this? He said that since starting work with this company that he has not signed a contract of any sort.
I am afraid they could sack him at any time sick or not after that little time with the company, infact they have been bloody good to keep him on for as long as they have done. He should have signed a contract, and they should have goven him one, but that does not make any difference to his leaving or not. Best thing to do is to put it behind him get well and then get a new job.
cheers
Dan
cheers
Dan
do you think it morally wrong to let someone go becasue they cant do the job and dont know when they will be back at work? No of course not.
wheather its legall wrong is another kettle of fish but as earlier posts said, such a short period of employment normally gives fewer 'rights' then the mirard of protection given.
even if he had been employed longer than a year, it would still be morally right to let him go. job for life? what about whats fair for the employer?
wheather its legall wrong is another kettle of fish but as earlier posts said, such a short period of employment normally gives fewer 'rights' then the mirard of protection given.
even if he had been employed longer than a year, it would still be morally right to let him go. job for life? what about whats fair for the employer?
Unfortunately the law disagrees with some of the rational and sensible answers put forward so far:
Background:
My wife is a Masters CIPD qualified HR manager and frequently attends industrial tribunals.
The misconception is that an employee only gains protection rights after 1 years service. This is incorrect.
An employee gains statutory redundancy rights after 1 year. ie If you make them redundant they get 1 weeks pay for each complete year up to a maximum of 12 weeks pay at a max cap of £225ish per week.
An employee also gains protection from unfair dismissal for work related issues - eg Poor performance.
All other rights such as maternity, statutory sick pay (assuming your NI is up to date), discrimination etc exist from the moment you join a firm. Written contract or otherwise.
A written contract is essential for determining a firms disciplinary procedure, working hours and any additional benefits. However the absence of a contract doesn't remove any of your statutory rights.
Dismissal for sickness is a tough one. From a business point of view it may be a wise course, but from a legal point of view its dangerous ground.
Stress related illness has recently be upheld as being classed as a disability. Especially when it is believed that the condition is unlikely to improve or return in the future.
Dismissal for a disability is discrimination. Specifically where the employer has made little or no effort to accommodate the employee.
Prolonged absence from work (which can be a reason for dismissal) is not a factor as the absence is caused by an illness or disability. The employer is open to an unfair dismissal claim due to discrimination.
This is of particular concern where the employer has not done the following things
- Consultation meeting with the employee
- Independant doctors report on the condition
- Provided evidence of their disciplinary procedure.
It's not an straightforward choice for the employee to challenge the dismissal, as the burden of proof is on the employee to prove that the illness is likely to be long term and that the firm has discriminated against them, however if the employer has not followed std employment rules then a tribunal would take a very dim view of the employers actions.
Edited to correct some appalling spelling mistakes!
>> Edited by apguy on Friday 13th August 13:39
Background:
My wife is a Masters CIPD qualified HR manager and frequently attends industrial tribunals.
The misconception is that an employee only gains protection rights after 1 years service. This is incorrect.
An employee gains statutory redundancy rights after 1 year. ie If you make them redundant they get 1 weeks pay for each complete year up to a maximum of 12 weeks pay at a max cap of £225ish per week.
An employee also gains protection from unfair dismissal for work related issues - eg Poor performance.
All other rights such as maternity, statutory sick pay (assuming your NI is up to date), discrimination etc exist from the moment you join a firm. Written contract or otherwise.
A written contract is essential for determining a firms disciplinary procedure, working hours and any additional benefits. However the absence of a contract doesn't remove any of your statutory rights.
Dismissal for sickness is a tough one. From a business point of view it may be a wise course, but from a legal point of view its dangerous ground.
Stress related illness has recently be upheld as being classed as a disability. Especially when it is believed that the condition is unlikely to improve or return in the future.
Dismissal for a disability is discrimination. Specifically where the employer has made little or no effort to accommodate the employee.
Prolonged absence from work (which can be a reason for dismissal) is not a factor as the absence is caused by an illness or disability. The employer is open to an unfair dismissal claim due to discrimination.
This is of particular concern where the employer has not done the following things
- Consultation meeting with the employee
- Independant doctors report on the condition
- Provided evidence of their disciplinary procedure.
It's not an straightforward choice for the employee to challenge the dismissal, as the burden of proof is on the employee to prove that the illness is likely to be long term and that the firm has discriminated against them, however if the employer has not followed std employment rules then a tribunal would take a very dim view of the employers actions.
Edited to correct some appalling spelling mistakes!
>> Edited by apguy on Friday 13th August 13:39
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