working hours regs?
Discussion
Here's the regulation if you want to read it...
www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1998/19981833.htm
Depends on the employment contract definition of working day.
If the day is classed from 00:00 to 23:59 then they have worked 09:00-17:30 on one day, and 00:00-06:00 on the second day - and the employer would be in their rights to claim the 00:00-06:00 as standard working time rather than overtime.
Therefore the employer could claim that in the 24 hour period from 00:00-11:59 that the worker had more than 11 hours of free-time.
The employer could probably not 'force' the worker to work after the 'overtime' period, but there is always the opt-out (which the worker may or may not have signed) - and the worker should have ensured they knew what time their next shift would start after the 'overtime'.
I regularly do 14 hour days (08:00-22:00), but I am still expected to be in at 8am the following day!
>> Edited by m-five on Thursday 24th June 17:22
www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1998/19981833.htm
Depends on the employment contract definition of working day.
If the day is classed from 00:00 to 23:59 then they have worked 09:00-17:30 on one day, and 00:00-06:00 on the second day - and the employer would be in their rights to claim the 00:00-06:00 as standard working time rather than overtime.
Therefore the employer could claim that in the 24 hour period from 00:00-11:59 that the worker had more than 11 hours of free-time.
The employer could probably not 'force' the worker to work after the 'overtime' period, but there is always the opt-out (which the worker may or may not have signed) - and the worker should have ensured they knew what time their next shift would start after the 'overtime'.
I regularly do 14 hour days (08:00-22:00), but I am still expected to be in at 8am the following day!
>> Edited by m-five on Thursday 24th June 17:22
m-five said:
If the day is classed from 00:00 to 23:59 then they have worked 09:00-17:30 on one day, and 00:00-06:00 on the second day - and the employer would be in their rights to claim the 00:00-06:00 as standard working time rather than overtime.
Therefore the employer could claim that in the 24 hour period from 00:00-11:59 that the worker had more than 11 hours of free-time.
Is the above example right? Is it not 11 consecutive hours between periods of work? Or have i misunderstood the regs? Not trying to be pendantic M5, just trying to understand it!
mcecm said:
If the day is classed from 00:00 to 23:59 then they have worked 09:00-17:30 on one day, and 00:00-06:00 on the second day - and the employer would be in their rights to claim the 00:00-06:00 as standard working time rather than overtime.
Therefore the employer could claim that in the 24 hour period from 00:00-11:59 that the worker had more than 11 hours of free-time.
Is the above example right? Is it not 11 consecutive hours between periods of work? Or have i misunderstood the regs? Not trying to be pendantic M5, just trying to understand it!
Don't worry about it as the regulations are not easy to understand anyway.
What I meant to show was that the employer could show 11 consecutive hours in the 24 leading up to and after the normal working day. Although in this case of 'contractual' overtime I can't see how they could manage that.
Maybe the 11 consecutive hours only relate to 'normal working hours'.
Surely if the contract requires this overtime then it is in breach of the WTR unless the average weekly hours over a 13 week period are below 48 - especially if there has been no WTR opt-out signed.
Even without the opt-out you can still work more than 48 - but it is up to the employee and the employer cannot force the employee to do it - although I wouldn't like to try to take an employer to court on the strength of the WTR as I don't know if anyone has managed to read and understand the whole thing.
In my job, if I refuse overtime at any time then I lose out on being on the overtime list for a month or so, so it can become a costly business - it's much better for me to 'not be around' when the overtime question comes up and I've got somewhere else to be.
stooz said:
cheers all. the OT is contractual, ie can't be refused. So im assuming the 11 hour break would be in play?
does it say in your contract that at some point you will be required to work overtime? If not in this case, it could be cassed as change of shift. I.E. your doing the same hours overall but at a different time, so whatever OT you do, can be taken away from another shift on a different day.
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