Gone very quiet

[Paddymcc]

classicaholic said:

In the UK we seem to want to build with bricks and mortar a lot whereas I built a house in the US that was really very quick to build, has great insulation and is warm in the winter and cool enough in the summer at a much higher temperature range than we get in Britain. The house is timber frame with boarded outsides, lots of insulation and then covered with plastic siding, the roof is basically roofing felt and was incredibly quick to build and didnt cost a fortune, 18 years on and its still looking good and is fully watertight, I was sceptical at 1st as it looked like a garden shed build wise but it and millions of others in the US cant be wrong.

I think in the UK there is difficulty getting insurance cover for non standard construction methods? Timber frame with brick outer walls are popular here in Ireland in the North and South.

I posted a picture earlier of the tin bungalows built after WW2 and they surely wouldn't cost much to build these days with prefabricated systems.

[Sheepshanks]

skwdenyer said:

And I've been saying for a long, long time that our economy is broken, a fact only hidden by a variety of smoke and mirrors and Govt policy (including de facto subsidies for low-paid workers). So many on here shouted me down.

Read somewhere the other day that Warren Buffett strongly believes in working tax credits as a way of rebalancing the difference between those on vastly different rates of pay.

[Strocky]

Paddymcc said:

I had this conversation with my accountant recently when he asked was i interested in taking on some more labour so i pointed him at my profit margin % and how much i would have to increase turnover to cover that 24k a year.

Simply not worth the hassle.


With regards the housing posts above i cannot understand how and why local councils are not flat out building those pre-fab bungalows to solve things. My local town still has quite a few of those tin ones constructed after WW2 and they are still perfectly serviceable and liveable.

The solutions are there its just no one wants to do anything about it.

A handy internment camp for those wanting to dodge national service

[skwdenyer]

Paddymcc said:

classicaholic said:

In the UK we seem to want to build with bricks and mortar a lot whereas I built a house in the US that was really very quick to build, has great insulation and is warm in the winter and cool enough in the summer at a much higher temperature range than we get in Britain. The house is timber frame with boarded outsides, lots of insulation and then covered with plastic siding, the roof is basically roofing felt and was incredibly quick to build and didnt cost a fortune, 18 years on and its still looking good and is fully watertight, I was sceptical at 1st as it looked like a garden shed build wise but it and millions of others in the US cant be wrong.

I think in the UK there is difficulty getting insurance cover for non standard construction methods? Timber frame with brick outer walls are popular here in Ireland in the North and South.

I posted a picture earlier of the tin bungalows built after WW2 and they surely wouldn't cost much to build these days with prefabricated systems.

The great thing about Governments is they can self-insure. There are lots of "unconventional" building methods that would be appropriate for large-scale social housing. Obviously we need to be careful (for instance, all those cancerous concrete towers), but social housing is an area ripe to help the progression of British building standards.

If that has the additional feature of making it harder for RTB to operate, that's a good outcome in my book

[Sheepshanks]

Strocky said:

Paddymcc said:

I had this conversation with my accountant recently when he asked was i interested in taking on some more labour so i pointed him at my profit margin % and how much i would have to increase turnover to cover that 24k a year.

Simply not worth the hassle.


With regards the housing posts above i cannot understand how and why local councils are not flat out building those pre-fab bungalows to solve things. My local town still has quite a few of those tin ones constructed after WW2 and they are still perfectly serviceable and liveable.

The solutions are there its just no one wants to do anything about it.

A handy internment camp for those wanting to dodge national service

It's mentioned in another thread today that Britian has the highest proportion of substandard dwellings in Europe. Feels embarrasiing, that.

Also the second lowest number of dwellings relative to population.

[Digga]

Well, this gives a decent handle on the magnitude of decline in constrution:

https://www.cityam.com/speedy-hire-profit-tumbles-...

It also serves to remind that, every year a government fails to keep house construction on an even keel, leads to a huge reduction in capacity of the ancillary industries.

[skwdenyer]

Digga said:

Well, this gives a decent handle on the magnitude of decline in constrution:

https://www.cityam.com/speedy-hire-profit-tumbles-...

It also serves to remind that, every year a government fails to keep house construction on an even keel, leads to a huge reduction in capacity of the ancillary industries.

Indeed. But Labour would have been so much worse

[Digga]

skwdenyer said:

Digga said:

Well, this gives a decent handle on the magnitude of decline in constrution:

https://www.cityam.com/speedy-hire-profit-tumbles-...

It also serves to remind that, every year a government fails to keep house construction on an even keel, leads to a huge reduction in capacity of the ancillary industries.

Indeed. But Labour would have been so much worse

The decline began in 1978 and no government since has halted it.

[skwdenyer]

Digga said:

skwdenyer said:

Digga said:

Well, this gives a decent handle on the magnitude of decline in constrution:

https://www.cityam.com/speedy-hire-profit-tumbles-...

It also serves to remind that, every year a government fails to keep house construction on an even keel, leads to a huge reduction in capacity of the ancillary industries.

Indeed. But Labour would have been so much worse

The decline began in 1978 and no government since has halted it.

I agree. The “revolution” of the 1980s was that the private sector would fix it. Of course the private sector has operated precisely as one would expect, maximising profits not output.

Unfashionable though it may be amongst many on the right, some big Government is actually needed.

[jeremyc]

Let's keep the politics for the N,P&E forum please.

Back on topic to how our businesses are coping now.

[President Merkin]

The past seven days in my end of the pond.

[skwdenyer]

jeremyc said:

Let's keep the politics for the N,P&E forum please.

Back on topic to how our businesses are coping now.

Fair enough.

My commercial landlording operation is ticking along, but there’s no growth in rents (still significantly down on pre-Covid), and having to work hard to keep tenants happy (which isn’t a bad thing). Energy prices are becoming saner - on a 3-year contract I can now get electricity that’s “only” 85% up on my 2018 deal Building materials remain high, and my 10-year plan written in 2020 has been ripped up.

I’m getting more enquiries from other landlords with empty properties they need business rates mitigation strategies for. I’m no longer in the retail fashion business day to day, and thankful for it TBH.

[Digga]

President Merkin said:

The past seven days in my end of the pond.

It's hideous seeing sector upon sector hitting existential challenge.

Not an industry I work in, but one I have a lot of contact with through leisure, the bike industry, is in similar chaos after the boom-to-oversupply that came from the pandemic. It is almost eating itself. Brand that just never discount are all hard at it.

Whilst competition is generally good, I really think the destruction currently being seen within numerous sectors will result, in the future, in less choice and, ultimately, less competition. I see little evidence of the mythical creative destruction.

[kent_phil]

Hospitality update from the deep South West - the weather is definitely improving the mood and short notice bookings are up across the village. Most places are now fully booked for the summer, local pub is busy and restaurants starting to need bookings again.

It has been a slow start to the season but starting to feel normal for the time of year in the village.

Interestingly, our place has had a spike in bookings for summer 2025. It's only our first year renting a holiday home, so there are no patterns to fall back on, but it's odd how over the last week, we have let 5 weeks of next year's peak / near-peak season.

[Louis Balfour]

kent_phil said:

Hospitality update from the deep South West

Geography isn't your strong suit, or your username requires an update.

[sleepezy]

And his profile - Bedfordshire is deep somewhere but definitely not South West

[AB]

We're going into what is normally a couple of slow months (dental and medical supplies/equipment/consumables) as people go on holiday. Our EOY is July 31st so not expecting to do a whole lot more between now and then.

Beaten last years figure but also taken on a couple of new staff so overheads have increased somewhat.

Labour could be a good thing for our business if spending on the NHS and healthcare in general is order of the day.

We're using the next couple of months to investigate new products and income streams (and enjoy the weather).

It is sad to see so many businesses going to the wall, certainly in our industry down to overspending and too many monthly expenditures which aren't sustainable with even the smallest slow down.

Hope everyone is well.

Edited by AB on Wednesday 26th June 05:37

[Brother D]

classicaholic said:

In the UK we seem to want to build with bricks and mortar a lot whereas I built a house in the US that was really very quick to build, has great insulation and is warm in the winter and cool enough in the summer at a much higher temperature range than we get in Britain. The house is timber frame with boarded outsides, lots of insulation and then covered with plastic siding, the roof is basically roofing felt and was incredibly quick to build and didnt cost a fortune, 18 years on and its still looking good and is fully watertight, I was sceptical at 1st as it looked like a garden shed build wise but it and millions of others in the US cant be wrong.

Humm - the roof has to be replaced every 10-15 years or recoated every two years if it made from foam, let alone some of the houses having wood (shingle) roof tiles.

My flat in Chicago had half an inch of ice on the inside window frame in winter at one point, and and strips of moisture where the studs transmitted the cold thru to the internal space. This is a building that is only 15 years old.

The other house in Utah has heating/cooling running pretty much 24x7 (plus being made of wood it constantly loudly creaks in the wind).

95% of houses in the US are grossly ineffecient and stay warm or cool due to very cheap energy costs...

US households use two to three times the energy of european homes but don't take my word for it - From the World Energy Council:

"In the US, typical household power consumption is about 11,700 kWh each year, in France it is 6,400 kWh, in the UK it is 4,600 kWh, and in China around 1,300 kWh. The global average electricity consumption for households with electricity was roughly 3,500 kWh in 2010."

Personally I would take a brick built house with slate tiles over a house built with cheap lumber, plastic sidings and garden shed felt roof tiles.

[skwdenyer]

Brother D said:

classicaholic said:

In the UK we seem to want to build with bricks and mortar a lot whereas I built a house in the US that was really very quick to build, has great insulation and is warm in the winter and cool enough in the summer at a much higher temperature range than we get in Britain. The house is timber frame with boarded outsides, lots of insulation and then covered with plastic siding, the roof is basically roofing felt and was incredibly quick to build and didnt cost a fortune, 18 years on and its still looking good and is fully watertight, I was sceptical at 1st as it looked like a garden shed build wise but it and millions of others in the US cant be wrong.

Humm - the roof has to be replaced every 10-15 years or recoated every two years if it made from foam, let alone some of the houses having wood (shingle) roof tiles.

My flat in Chicago had half an inch of ice on the inside window frame in winter at one point, and and strips of moisture where the studs transmitted the cold thru to the internal space. This is a building that is only 15 years old.

The other house in Utah has heating/cooling running pretty much 24x7 (plus being made of wood it constantly loudly creaks in the wind).

95% of houses in the US are grossly ineffecient and stay warm or cool due to very cheap energy costs...

US households use two to three times the energy of european homes but don't take my word for it - From the World Energy Council:

"In the US, typical household power consumption is about 11,700 kWh each year, in France it is 6,400 kWh, in the UK it is 4,600 kWh, and in China around 1,300 kWh. The global average electricity consumption for households with electricity was roughly 3,500 kWh in 2010."

Personally I would take a brick built house with slate tiles over a house built with cheap lumber, plastic sidings and garden shed felt roof tiles.

You rightly point up the slightly warped economics of a low-energy-cost economy. When watching various "how to build a house" videos on YouTube, it is remarkable how the common methods result in frankly extraordinary cold bridging - the stud issue you highlight above.

There is also, of course, a culture in much of the US that allocates the primary value to the land, with the house being a depreciating asset having a design life of only a few decades.

That said, however, the principles of fast-track building can and should be applied to building in the UK. There's no reason why we can't adopt different approaches, with a lot more off-site build (whether that be steel frames, SIPs, or what have you. Take footings, for instance. For a standard UK house, there's no reason why the whole structure couldn't be supported on just 4 unconnected piles, with a steel frame supporting all floors including ground. Piling isn't awfully efficient for one-off builds, but if constructing an estate all of the footings could be set quickly and - importantly - with a great deal less concrete employed.

[r3g]

If they only have a shelf life of 20 years or so per the US example then the overall cost to replicate it in the UK is going to be far more than what it would cost to just build a proper house in the first place, once you add in costs to demolish and build a fresh one when it expires.

Anyway, this is the business thread, not the 'housing shortage/politics' thread, of which there are several current threads in their own sub-forums without turning this one into another.