advice please?

[tigerk]

Hi there, I'm a refugee from the kit car forum, and in need of help. (cue joke about kit car owners needing help)

I'm planning to buy a Defender 90 in the £5 - 7k price range. A couple of questions..

Is the 300 tdi the better engine to go for. I've read somewhere on here that they can be unreliable?

What extras does a County Pack give me?

thanks in anticipation

Kevin

[JSG]

300 tdi generally seen as smoother and more efficient than the 200 tdi. It needs to have been serviced regularly and has a timing belt that needs replacement, other than that the 'bad reputation' is undeserved. A lot of people prefer the 300 tdi to the TD5 due to the lack of complex electronics and the 300 tdi is still used for some export markets.

The County Pack gives mainly trim extras such as headlining, alpine roof lights etc over the base model.

[tigerk]

Many thanks JSG. Had a look at a 1990 defender today with a 300TDi engine which was fitted some 40K miles ago. Seems like a good example, but all down to price now.

Cheers

[steve-p]

JSG said:

The County Pack gives mainly trim extras such as headlining, alpine roof lights etc over the base model.

Not forgetting the stereo radio/cassette, rear wash/wipe, folding side and rear steps, sunroof, cuddly toy... OK I made that last one up. Prices are higher for genuine Countys compared to home brew lookalikes, so if you are paying the price for an original County, make sure it is the real deal.

I don't know too much about the 300Tdi apart from what I have read about improved refinement compared to the 200Tdi, but I still find it impressive that the 200Tdi in my 110 CSW still returns 30mpg and respectable performance after 12 years and 163,000 miles. But, refined it is not.

[Mrs Fish]

James speaking:

Interestingly a gamekeeper I was speaking to recently reckoned the 200TDi had more grunt than his current 300TDi.

I wouldn,t know as I haven't driven either. Mines going to have a V8

[Buffalo]

From what i can remember of my extensive land rover mag collection (just given away because of lack of LR - sob), the 200TDi and 300TDi as mentioned have identical power outputs, however the 200TDi is far more simple in design. I can't remember the exact number of new parts between the two engines, but reckon its was over 90% despite them being the "same".

Mostly this was because the 200TDi was criticised for being rather agricultural sounding and of course LR were trying to push upmarket. To make it sound better it had to become more sophisticated - Japanese competitors were making some pretty creamy diesels, most of which were higher in capacity than the 2.5L of the LR unit as well as sounding better and giving feel of being the better engine (not true in my opinion).

You can buy some very good sound deadening kits for a 200TDi engine, which look similar in appearance to some of the bits a 300 will have. I remember James Taylor once of LRO retrofitted a 200TDi into his RR and then afterwards fitted mild upgrades, including these sound deadeners....

I think if i was contemplating lots of offroading i would take the 200 for its simplicity, otherwise i dn't think its an issue.

In terms of comparison to the TD5, having driven both and speaking to chaps that use them off road all the time, bizarrely the TD5 is criticised for having less grunt that the 200/300TDi's - absolutely no idea why as again i think they are similar/same outputs.

I think to be honest, given that i drove one LR following a chaps disgruntled moaning after he got it stuck inthe same situation as him and was unscathed, you just need to drive the 5cyl differently and the gearbox requires a bit more use. The TDi units are definitely for the more brutal off-road operators! The 5cyl is definitely smoother however.

[JSG]

Buffalo said:

In terms of comparison to the TD5, having driven both and speaking to chaps that use them off road all the time, bizarrely the TD5 is criticised for having less grunt that the 200/300TDi's - absolutely no idea why as again i think they are similar/same outputs.

The TD5 is very smooth (and quiet for a Defender). My TD5 CSW has an overdrive fitted and you can talk and listen to the stereo at 85 - 90 mph no problem.

As for off road I've not found the TD5 to be a problem, it's always had enough grunt to get through (traction control helps though). The TD5 use a 'fly by wire' throttle which does give a different feel that some people don't like.

[tigerk]

Thanks all. I was told yesterday by the founder of a LR main dealers yesterday that the 200 and 300 should be similar in power output, and having driven one of each I can't really tell the difference. I think the TD5 is out for me, partly on cost grounds, and partly on maintenance grounds (I'd like to DIY some of it at least) All the above makes interesting reading though

[Buffalo]

Both 200/300TDi are 111BHP, IIRC

Can't remember torque figure, but respectable enough!

[gadget110]

JSG said:

The TD5 use a 'fly by wire' throttle which does give a different feel that some people don't like.

And if you spend any time at all in water that can come over the fbw throttle etc your are seriously *d. Electronics + water = knackerness.

[gadget110]

tigerk said:

Thanks all. I was told yesterday by the founder of a LR main dealers yesterday that the 200 and 300 should be similar in power output, and having driven one of each I can't really tell the difference. I think the TD5 is out for me, partly on cost grounds, and partly on maintenance grounds (I'd like to DIY some of it at least) All the above makes interesting reading though

Speak to Andy at Allisport. If you uprate the intercooler on either a 200 or 300 you are looking at nearer 150bhp. V8 eating torque!

[heightswitch]

I have ovned a 96 300tdi for about 2 months now it is the best thing I ever did. My First landy. Its Brill.

After a lot of advice I decided on the following

300tdi better than the 200tdi, slightly smoother,better ancillaries, single belts etc, the best you can get without going to the non DIY TD5

the 300tdi also has the R380 gearbox which has a much smoother change and operation than the LT77 fitted to the 200tdi.

Both gearboxes have a "reputation" but I think the pro's of the R380 outweigh the cons.

The TD5 (in std trim) is not as good off road, cos it has anti roll bars and less articulation. it is smoother on road, (but who buys a landy worrying about that)

Total offroad magazine came to the conclusion that a late (95-on 300tdi) before anti roll bars but after discs standardised on the rear was as good as the TD5, and far better when considering its servicing needs and fix ability.

My tuppence worth for what its worth!

I paid £6400 plus a citroen ZX diesel (£800) for my 96 model with 70K miles and all the toys fitted. Buy the best chassis you can afford and keep £500 in your back pocket for a thorough specialist service and inspection when you have bought it.

You won't regret it.

Neil

[tigerk]

Thanks again for the informationand advice.. I've taken the plunge and got a '95 300 tdi CSW. Paid a little more than expected but it was by far the cleanest I've seen, has full service history, and lots of extras. Had it four weeks now and having fixed a couple of small problems am really pleased with it. Will try and post some pictures soon.

[heightswitch]

Glad to see that you have joined the clan. You will now enter a world where you feel chilled out on road and over the next few months start to do things that you would never have contemplated with a car. I have now climbed a pennine hillside to walk the dogs off lead for example and towed 2 tons of car and trailer to hampshire from Rochdale whilst still achieving mid 20,s to the gallon.

again. It's the best car experience I have ever had. you won't look back.

Neil.

[-bacchus-]

One big difference between the 200 & the 300 is the gearbox.

IIRC, the 300 has the unit straight out of a disco, whereas the 200 had a "de-rated one".

Having owned both, I wopuld not agree that the 200 had more grunt.

I had both in 90 T/C form, and the 300 was a County.

Although the 300Tdi, pictured below did get bored out, and had some custom pistons fitted, amongst other modifications.



I would rate the new TD5, higher than the first porduction models, as they did suffer teething troubles. But the engine will take about 40k to be fully run in!!

[tigerk]

Just driven the landrover to work today after having got it through MOT successfully this week. I never thought 60 mph on a motorway could be fun, but there's something very satisfying about looking down on people in their ford mundaneos and just grinning from ear to ear!

[Graham]

>> would rate the new TD5, higher than the first porduction models, as they did suffer teething troubles. But the engine will take about 40k to be fully run in!!<<<


40k bloody hell it will have driven me mad by then..

so far after 8k my impressions of the td5 are

1) Noisey and harsh
2)crap mpg 25 ish ( ok so the air con is on constantly)
3) terrible throttle response
4) No grunt.

DOnt get me wrong i love the disco but the engine is shit.. and nothing compaired to a V8 and it only gets about 7mpg more anyway than the v8.

My mates Sii td5 auto only gets about the same mpg..


I might try a re-chip intercooler and see if i can find a sports exhaust..

G

[sagalout]

sense of deja vu there Graham.

Keep seeing a light blue metalic Defender on a Y plate around Cramlington. Looks absolutly lovely. Owner told me it was Monte Carlo blue and a standard colour but its the only one I've seen.

Really fancy one in the New Year. You guys make me v. jealous,love Mr & Mrs Fishes project. Also seen pick up body on a Range Rover chassis. Painted orange and called an "ORange Rover". Could have cuddled it....

[Graham]

just mean i feel double strong about it

actaually i was very tempted recently.

s1 fixed head wedge on e-bay 410 quid

90 rolling chassis with docs 500 quid..

add to that a new 4.6 and an r380 gearbox and that would be fun....

4x4 v8 wedge

[zumbruk]

Graham said:

DOnt get me wrong i love the disco but the engine is shit.. and nothing compaired to a V8 and it only gets about 7mpg more anyway than the v8. My mates Sii td5 auto only gets about the same mpg..

I've been told on the QT by my LR mender that the TD5 sucks donkey poo and I'd be better off sticking with a V8. So I will.