Purchaseing a Mid 90s Range Rover
Discussion
Mid 90's was the start of the P38a, the second generation. For £10 grand you should be able to find a very nice example.
Bad points - 4.6 engines have a "reputation" for knackering blocks.
- The air suspension has a reputation for being expensive to fix.
Don't go to a main stealer, find an independant and get reasonably priced servicing.
Bad points - 4.6 engines have a "reputation" for knackering blocks.
- The air suspension has a reputation for being expensive to fix.
Don't go to a main stealer, find an independant and get reasonably priced servicing.
beechy said:
I'm thinking of purchaseing a mid 90's Range Rover and have a budget of about 10k. What are my options and are there any things I should look out for or be aware of?
Electrics, electrics, electrics and electrics. And the air suspension. Which is electrically operated.
Make sure *everything* works. It's all a *lot* of money to fix - £112 for an electric seat switch, for example.
If you go for the P38 make sure its a 97 model year onwards (some 'P' reg but generally 'R' onwards), this has improved electronics and is identified by the twin exit exhausts (i.e. one each side of the vehicle). In addition to electrics and engine as already mentioned, also the heater blender motors fail and is dash out job = expensive, so make sure heater/climate control works as it should.
This is a question I have been thinking of asking..... I am looking at £10-11k to put myself in a P38, preferably with an LPG conversion to help the running costs.
With this reputation for 4.6 engines, is it better to track down a 4.0, or is thereanything you can do to check if a 4.6 engine has the potetntial o give you (expensive) problems?
With this reputation for 4.6 engines, is it better to track down a 4.0, or is thereanything you can do to check if a 4.6 engine has the potetntial o give you (expensive) problems?
Cheers guys.
i wont be makeing the purchase till early may as this is when my company car lease runs out.
I currently have very little knowledge on Range rovers. Could someone please explain what the diferences are between some of the number modles that have been quoted in this thread.
Thanks again.
i wont be makeing the purchase till early may as this is when my company car lease runs out.
I currently have very little knowledge on Range rovers. Could someone please explain what the diferences are between some of the number modles that have been quoted in this thread.
Thanks again.
Where to begin!!!
Range Rover P38A (P38) refers to the model from 1994-2002, comes with either 2.5 BMW 6 cylinder diesel with manual/auto depending on spec and year, 4.0 V8 petrol with manual or auto depending on spec/year or the 4.6V8 only in HSE spec and auto. Quick summary is that base model is cloth trim (optional climate control), SE gives leather/climate/heated seats/heated screen/cruise control, HSE as SE plus auto-dip mirror, Harmon Kardon CD stereo, electric memory seats and more wood trim and other gizmos. Vogue came out in 2000, added sat-nav and other bits. County and other editions are normally around SE money and spec. All models have air-suspension and decent safety (ABS, Air-bags etc). Prices go from £3k for a 4.0 manual from 1994 with 150k miles upto £25k for a 2002 Vogue with 10k miles. If you can afford the juice then 4.6HSE is best value (or LPG it), otherwise the 2.5 DSE Auto is most popular as a all rounder, but in my opinion is not powerful enough.
Range Rover "Classic" is the iconic model, if your looking at mid 90's (94 model year)then thats the "soft dash" model which has twin air-bags and basically a Discovery dashboard and some other improvement. These will either be 3.9V8 (manual or auto) or 2.5 (300 Tdi) diesel (manual or auto) in base, Vogue or Vogue SE specs, or 4.2V8 Auto LSE which has 8 inch longer wheelbase (rear doors) and is very desirable. Also these years have air-suspension on top models, standard on LSE. The "classic" was still being built when P38 came out as there was strong feeling for the model, in 1996 the "classic" was discontinued. Prices for these soft dash models vary considerably due to condition and popularity among enthusiasts, range from £4k for a tired one to £12k for a mint low mileage LSE.
Hope this has helped.
Range Rover P38A (P38) refers to the model from 1994-2002, comes with either 2.5 BMW 6 cylinder diesel with manual/auto depending on spec and year, 4.0 V8 petrol with manual or auto depending on spec/year or the 4.6V8 only in HSE spec and auto. Quick summary is that base model is cloth trim (optional climate control), SE gives leather/climate/heated seats/heated screen/cruise control, HSE as SE plus auto-dip mirror, Harmon Kardon CD stereo, electric memory seats and more wood trim and other gizmos. Vogue came out in 2000, added sat-nav and other bits. County and other editions are normally around SE money and spec. All models have air-suspension and decent safety (ABS, Air-bags etc). Prices go from £3k for a 4.0 manual from 1994 with 150k miles upto £25k for a 2002 Vogue with 10k miles. If you can afford the juice then 4.6HSE is best value (or LPG it), otherwise the 2.5 DSE Auto is most popular as a all rounder, but in my opinion is not powerful enough.
Range Rover "Classic" is the iconic model, if your looking at mid 90's (94 model year)then thats the "soft dash" model which has twin air-bags and basically a Discovery dashboard and some other improvement. These will either be 3.9V8 (manual or auto) or 2.5 (300 Tdi) diesel (manual or auto) in base, Vogue or Vogue SE specs, or 4.2V8 Auto LSE which has 8 inch longer wheelbase (rear doors) and is very desirable. Also these years have air-suspension on top models, standard on LSE. The "classic" was still being built when P38 came out as there was strong feeling for the model, in 1996 the "classic" was discontinued. Prices for these soft dash models vary considerably due to condition and popularity among enthusiasts, range from £4k for a tired one to £12k for a mint low mileage LSE.
Hope this has helped.
Beechy, I have had a couple of these all 4.6's if you get one there is a chip conversion that stops he mixture being weakened off at 55-65MPH. The chip change stops the hot spot problems and prolong engine life by miles. If the engine does let go it is normally the liners that slip, £1400 buys you a new engine, not recon, with stepped liners that do not slip again. Air suspension it a weak point, worth investing is a hand held computer to reset the faults, if the air suspension redgesters a spurious fault it shuts down until reset by a dealer, most relieve you of £50 for the privilage. Other wise a really good car to drive and very capable off road.
Just to add (with tongue firmly in cheek!) you could always buy a P38, and make it look like a new Rangie.....
www.rangeroverkits.com/
www.rangeroverkits.com/
I think the choice between Classic and P38 may depend on how you intend to use it.
I had a 94 (L Reg) Classic with Air-suspension and I've had a 98(R Reg)P38 for the last 4yrs.
Main things I noticed when I changed:
1) Wind noise - P38 is a huge improvement at motorway speeds(85-90), the Classic flaps the door tops open at similar speeds.
2) Ease of back seat lowering - you have to remove the headrests before folding in the Classic, whereas you just fold the seats in the P38 - so much easier.
3) Stereo very good in P38, inc steering wheel controls.
4) Getting in & out of the back - the wheelarch is too prominent in the Classic. The P38 is the same wheelbase as the LSE Classic, so it's much easier to get in/out. This lack of wheelarch intrusion also makes the back seat much wider so it's much more comfortable for 3 people.
5) Air suspension hasn't been a problem on my P38 (tempting fate huh!?) but it was quite problematic on the Classic.
6) Can't see as many places to rust on P38 (newer design). My Classic had to have a new upper tailgate (the surround rusted so badly it wouldn't stay shut when driving) and the doors reacted with the door frames and started bubbling. My P38 doesn't seem to have any rusty bits...yet!
However, although I think the P38 is the better design, better drive etc, it has cost me an absolute packet to run. Within the last year I've had to replace exhaust including Cats (1500 for full sports from Rimmer Bros), had to replace Pressure Plate (between engine and auto box I believe), and I've just rx'ed bill for total of £3700 for new short engine (engine = 1995 from RPI Eng as it went porous at 72K miles) and new rockers etc.
I had my P38 converted to LPG as soon as I got it. It cost £2K and it paid for itself within 2yrs (30K miles). I tried a new 2000 P38 DHSE (Diesel) before buying the 4.6. It was incredibly slow from a standstill, I felt very vunerable pulling out of junctions etc. It was fine once underway and would cruise 80 no probs, but it made me so tense I couldn't have lived with it.
The LPG does decrease performance a fair bit, but if you need to pass something on an A-road, it's simply a case of toggling to petrol and back via switch on dash. It becomes second nature. I get 200-220 miles to a £35ish tank full of gas (80ish litres).
Hope this is helpful(?), feel free to ask anything else.
Regards,
Shentodj
I had a 94 (L Reg) Classic with Air-suspension and I've had a 98(R Reg)P38 for the last 4yrs.
Main things I noticed when I changed:
1) Wind noise - P38 is a huge improvement at motorway speeds(85-90), the Classic flaps the door tops open at similar speeds.
2) Ease of back seat lowering - you have to remove the headrests before folding in the Classic, whereas you just fold the seats in the P38 - so much easier.
3) Stereo very good in P38, inc steering wheel controls.
4) Getting in & out of the back - the wheelarch is too prominent in the Classic. The P38 is the same wheelbase as the LSE Classic, so it's much easier to get in/out. This lack of wheelarch intrusion also makes the back seat much wider so it's much more comfortable for 3 people.
5) Air suspension hasn't been a problem on my P38 (tempting fate huh!?) but it was quite problematic on the Classic.
6) Can't see as many places to rust on P38 (newer design). My Classic had to have a new upper tailgate (the surround rusted so badly it wouldn't stay shut when driving) and the doors reacted with the door frames and started bubbling. My P38 doesn't seem to have any rusty bits...yet!
However, although I think the P38 is the better design, better drive etc, it has cost me an absolute packet to run. Within the last year I've had to replace exhaust including Cats (1500 for full sports from Rimmer Bros), had to replace Pressure Plate (between engine and auto box I believe), and I've just rx'ed bill for total of £3700 for new short engine (engine = 1995 from RPI Eng as it went porous at 72K miles) and new rockers etc.
I had my P38 converted to LPG as soon as I got it. It cost £2K and it paid for itself within 2yrs (30K miles). I tried a new 2000 P38 DHSE (Diesel) before buying the 4.6. It was incredibly slow from a standstill, I felt very vunerable pulling out of junctions etc. It was fine once underway and would cruise 80 no probs, but it made me so tense I couldn't have lived with it.
The LPG does decrease performance a fair bit, but if you need to pass something on an A-road, it's simply a case of toggling to petrol and back via switch on dash. It becomes second nature. I get 200-220 miles to a £35ish tank full of gas (80ish litres).
Hope this is helpful(?), feel free to ask anything else.
Regards,
Shentodj
That's an interesting point, Shentodj, and shows that the later car is an improvement on the earlier one.
My reason for not liking the P38 is that I know of a couple of people who have bought P38s and have had so many problems that they are now trying to sell. My boss sold me his Disco and bought a P38 Diesel and has had nothing but problems with it, and has also found it painfully slow (even compared with the 300Tdi Disco). It cost him the best part of £17k 18 months ago, and recently tried to sell it for £12k with no response!
My reason for not liking the P38 is that I know of a couple of people who have bought P38s and have had so many problems that they are now trying to sell. My boss sold me his Disco and bought a P38 Diesel and has had nothing but problems with it, and has also found it painfully slow (even compared with the 300Tdi Disco). It cost him the best part of £17k 18 months ago, and recently tried to sell it for £12k with no response!
shentodj said:
I've just rx'ed bill for total of £3700 for new short engine (engine = 1995 from RPI Eng as it went porous at 72K miles) and new rockers etc.
Like Beechy, I am considering a P38, and if I do, I will also convert to LPG (If I don't buy one that has already been converted)
Looking at Autotrader, you do see a lot of 4.6's that have had replacement engines, which you have also needed.
Why is this so common, and:
a) Is there anything you can do to prevent this requirement
b) If you buy a car that has had it's engine replaced, is a similar fault likely to rear it's head again in the future?
In addition to the question above. I have noticed that many of the ones for sale have really high milage. I know with some cars you are some times better getting a car that is over a cirtain milage as cirtain big things have to be done as specific milages. Is this true of the range rover?
I bought a '94 Range Rover classic a couple of months ago, and had similar questions to you, but a smaller budget. For 10k you should get a nice P38 model from the late 90's - a quick search on Autotrader shows plenty of '99-00 models with 50-70k miles on the clock. If you prefer the look of the classic, as some do, then you can get a good late model for 3-4k. The ultimate classic (IMO ) is the long wheelbase 4.2 LSE soft dash (same dash as the Discovery), but there aren't a huge number of these around.
This is a useful site, with loads of info on the different models and a handy breakdown of any changes that were made for each model year.
Most parts are actually pretty cheap to buy from places like Famous Four and Rimmer Bros, and ebay is a good source of used bits too.
From my limited experience in looking (I bought the first one I saw!), the main things to look out for are:
1) Rust (especially rear tailgate, wheel arches, sills and bonnet on the classic)
2) Electrics - check cruise control, stereo + speakers, heated/powered seats, mirrors, sunroof, air-con, heater etc...
3) Mechanicals - watch out for clunks or strange noises in the drive train (especially when turning slowly on full-lock), water in oil/oil in water, engines that use lots of water or run hot. Make sure the low/high ratio transfer box works as it should too, and that the ABS actuator pump only kicks in after 4-5 presses of the brake pedal (this is for the classic - not sure if it's the same on the P38 though).
4) Air suspension - I was told by a specialist that the classic air suspension is actually more reliable than the P38, however he couldn't explain why this was. The springs are quite easy to replace, and aren't too expensive - about £100 each, but the other bits are a bit more pricey. Some people have converted their cars to coils, but the air is great - especially if you tow or carry heavy weights.
5) The disel is slower than a dog with 3 legs so IMHO the V8 is the only one worth going for. The previous owner of my one removed the LPG as it wasn't great for towing, and I've got no intention of putting it back in as it takes up too much space.
They are great to drive though - very easy considering the size, and depending on engine size they can be surprisingly quick for something that weighs 2+ tons!
There's nothing quite like wafting around in a Range Rover - definitely to be recommended
) is the long wheelbase 4.2 LSE soft dash (same dash as the Discovery), but there aren't a huge number of these around. This is a useful site, with loads of info on the different models and a handy breakdown of any changes that were made for each model year.
Most parts are actually pretty cheap to buy from places like Famous Four and Rimmer Bros, and ebay is a good source of used bits too.
From my limited experience in looking (I bought the first one I saw!), the main things to look out for are:
1) Rust (especially rear tailgate, wheel arches, sills and bonnet on the classic)
2) Electrics - check cruise control, stereo + speakers, heated/powered seats, mirrors, sunroof, air-con, heater etc...
3) Mechanicals - watch out for clunks or strange noises in the drive train (especially when turning slowly on full-lock), water in oil/oil in water, engines that use lots of water or run hot. Make sure the low/high ratio transfer box works as it should too, and that the ABS actuator pump only kicks in after 4-5 presses of the brake pedal (this is for the classic - not sure if it's the same on the P38 though).
4) Air suspension - I was told by a specialist that the classic air suspension is actually more reliable than the P38, however he couldn't explain why this was. The springs are quite easy to replace, and aren't too expensive - about £100 each, but the other bits are a bit more pricey. Some people have converted their cars to coils, but the air is great - especially if you tow or carry heavy weights.
5) The disel is slower than a dog with 3 legs so IMHO the V8 is the only one worth going for. The previous owner of my one removed the LPG as it wasn't great for towing, and I've got no intention of putting it back in as it takes up too much space.
They are great to drive though - very easy considering the size, and depending on engine size they can be surprisingly quick for something that weighs 2+ tons!
There's nothing quite like wafting around in a Range Rover - definitely to be recommended
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