Range Rover Classic 3.9 HGF and performance cam
Discussion
After I have just convinced the OH to take the RRC I bought back in December for the summer holidays, I fear my car has a failed head gasket... 
I noticed a tiny built of water loss before, and I had to top up the reservoir with with water before about twice, maybe three times. It never needed more than 0.2l each time to fill it up and get the warning light to go off. I planed to have a look at it, but never got around to do it (stupid, I know).
I did a 250miles round trip in 35°C weather the other day without an issue and the warning light didn't come on once. Also, the (dampened, no doubt) temperature gauge for the water never showed an increased temperature above normal. Also no loss in performance I could notice.
But when I drove home last Saturday, the warning light came on. Since I had no water and home was only 2 miles away, I drove home and left the car. Today, I had a look and was shocked the reservoir was near empty
And it smelled of petrol
I filled it up with 1.5l of water and drove about 15 miles, when the light came back on again. Off to my mechanic I go to for the old classic stuff....
But I fear the worst. Hopefully a new head gasket (and possible a planing of the head) will do the trick.
As I always like to tackle other things while at it, I thought of changing the cam while at it, since a worn camshaft is a known fault with the Rover V8. Car/engine has 110k miles btw.
So looking around, I came across two options: The Kent H180 or the Piper mild road and auto.
Kent cam
Piper cam
What do you recon is best suited for an auto RRC 3.9?
Who has experience with either of them?
Any insight regarding HGF and/or cams on one of these is much appreciated!
I noticed a tiny built of water loss before, and I had to top up the reservoir with with water before about twice, maybe three times. It never needed more than 0.2l each time to fill it up and get the warning light to go off. I planed to have a look at it, but never got around to do it (stupid, I know).
I did a 250miles round trip in 35°C weather the other day without an issue and the warning light didn't come on once. Also, the (dampened, no doubt) temperature gauge for the water never showed an increased temperature above normal. Also no loss in performance I could notice.
But when I drove home last Saturday, the warning light came on. Since I had no water and home was only 2 miles away, I drove home and left the car. Today, I had a look and was shocked the reservoir was near empty
And it smelled of petrol
I filled it up with 1.5l of water and drove about 15 miles, when the light came back on again. Off to my mechanic I go to for the old classic stuff....
But I fear the worst. Hopefully a new head gasket (and possible a planing of the head) will do the trick.
As I always like to tackle other things while at it, I thought of changing the cam while at it, since a worn camshaft is a known fault with the Rover V8. Car/engine has 110k miles btw.
So looking around, I came across two options: The Kent H180 or the Piper mild road and auto.
Kent cam
Piper cam
What do you recon is best suited for an auto RRC 3.9?
Who has experience with either of them?
Any insight regarding HGF and/or cams on one of these is much appreciated!
I can't help with the cam, other that it can be a bit of a faff as you have to access it via the front of the engine, which takes a fair amount of dismantling... Including the radiator, etc. I'm aware of the lobes wearing but @ 110k, it should still be OK (my last 3.9 had 160k and was still going strong on the original cam).
As for the HGF, when you're checking the coolant, you're probably also finding the system pressurised. On these engines, it'll almost certainly have failed between the coolant channel and one of the front or one of the rear cylinders. If the engine hasn't been cooked, you might be lucky and the head hasn't warped either.
Work out which cylinder is leaking (compression test or simply looking at the plugs), whip the head off and go from there.
HTH
M
As for the HGF, when you're checking the coolant, you're probably also finding the system pressurised. On these engines, it'll almost certainly have failed between the coolant channel and one of the front or one of the rear cylinders. If the engine hasn't been cooked, you might be lucky and the head hasn't warped either.
Work out which cylinder is leaking (compression test or simply looking at the plugs), whip the head off and go from there.
HTH
M
Well, my go to mechanic for classic stuff has become old. (He is well over 70) I haven‘t seen him, since I had no classic car for some time.
He wasn‘t really able to help me, but had a good look around zhe car nonetheless.
Good things:
There is no smoke coming from the engine.
The oil looks clean and the engine runs smoothly.
No visable sign of the engine sweeping coolant around the block/head.
I habe the exact same symptoms as this lad on LandyZone some 8 years ago:
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/3-9i-v8-ran...
Unfortunately the thread ended without any result being shared
I have allteady decided to take the Volvo for the family holidays and deal with the Range when I come back.
I‘m still hoping for some minor hose leakage or the like….
Hope dies last!
He wasn‘t really able to help me, but had a good look around zhe car nonetheless.
Good things:
There is no smoke coming from the engine.
The oil looks clean and the engine runs smoothly.
No visable sign of the engine sweeping coolant around the block/head.
I habe the exact same symptoms as this lad on LandyZone some 8 years ago:
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/3-9i-v8-ran...
Unfortunately the thread ended without any result being shared
I have allteady decided to take the Volvo for the family holidays and deal with the Range when I come back.
I‘m still hoping for some minor hose leakage or the like….
Hope dies last!
Hmmm... OK. If you're _really_ lucky, it could be an airlock sorting itself out. However, if it's running a bit rough and losing coolant, I'd be looking at the HGF option (you generally won't see anything in the exhaust with the RV8). Checking the plugs would be a good starting point if that's the case.
Alternatively, is there a damp smell in the cabin? If so, that could indicate problems with the heater matrix.
Otherwise, you're back to running it up to temperature and looking for leaks (laser pointers are perfect for this, as they will highlight any fine misting).
Good luck
M
Alternatively, is there a damp smell in the cabin? If so, that could indicate problems with the heater matrix.
Otherwise, you're back to running it up to temperature and looking for leaks (laser pointers are perfect for this, as they will highlight any fine misting).
Good luck
M
A problem with looking for small leaks with the engine hot is that the coolant may evaporate instantly & be very difficult to find.
One of the leaks on my RRC only showed itself when I pressurised the cold engine with one of the mityvac type vacuum/pressure pumps - only needed a hose clamp nipping up so an easy cheap fix for a change!
Bit of googling turns this up.
https://www.ringautomotive.com/en/product/rld2
I have no idea if it's any good.
On ebay for under £10 - you'll need a UV light source.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234812615214
Can't help with the cam choice as I used a standard one when I did my 3.5EFi a couple of years ago.
Changed the cam chain & both sprockets whilst I was at it.
Both heads tiny bit out, well under 10 thou each.
New valve springs, the valves were in vgc & only needed a quick grind with paste.
Strip & thorough clean of rocker shafts (hollow) & rockers (passageway from shaft to top of pushrods).
Elring composite head gaskets.
Composite valley gasket.
One of the leaks on my RRC only showed itself when I pressurised the cold engine with one of the mityvac type vacuum/pressure pumps - only needed a hose clamp nipping up so an easy cheap fix for a change!
Bit of googling turns this up.
https://www.ringautomotive.com/en/product/rld2
I have no idea if it's any good.
On ebay for under £10 - you'll need a UV light source.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234812615214
Can't help with the cam choice as I used a standard one when I did my 3.5EFi a couple of years ago.
Changed the cam chain & both sprockets whilst I was at it.
Both heads tiny bit out, well under 10 thou each.
New valve springs, the valves were in vgc & only needed a quick grind with paste.
Strip & thorough clean of rocker shafts (hollow) & rockers (passageway from shaft to top of pushrods).
Elring composite head gaskets.
Composite valley gasket.
Edited by paintman on Wednesday 19th July 21:38
You wont go wrong by speaking to any of the below:
https://johnealesroverv8.co.uk/
https://www.v8developments.co.uk/camshaft.htm
https://johnealesroverv8.co.uk/
https://www.v8developments.co.uk/camshaft.htm
Thanks for all the suggestions so far! They are much appreciated!
After the holidays, I will try mixing some UV dye in the coolant.
The next step is to bring the car to my usual LR wizard and see what he has to say (currently away on holiday, hence my visit to the other mechanic).
Being in Switzerland, the two engine shops suggested are a bit far away I'm afraid. But thank you anyhow!
I will keep you posted ...
After the holidays, I will try mixing some UV dye in the coolant.
The next step is to bring the car to my usual LR wizard and see what he has to say (currently away on holiday, hence my visit to the other mechanic).
Being in Switzerland, the two engine shops suggested are a bit far away I'm afraid. But thank you anyhow!
I will keep you posted ...
https://www.automotivecomp.com/ gets my vote as a specialist and for advice.
Thank you for the advice. I'm sure this will help others who seek help in a similar situation in the UK.
Since I'm based in Switzerland, I will most likely go to Landy Point in nearby Germany.
https://landy-point.de
I have ordered parts from them before, but didn't realize they have a workshop and are considered to be one of the leading specialists on the continent. They even have a Land Rover museum!
Since I'm based in Switzerland, I will most likely go to Landy Point in nearby Germany.
https://landy-point.de
I have ordered parts from them before, but didn't realize they have a workshop and are considered to be one of the leading specialists on the continent. They even have a Land Rover museum!
I haven't had time to drive the RRC in the last months, but glad to report to have found this yesterday:
OK, hard to see in the photographs, but I have never been happier to find a real puddle of water
Yesterday I filled the expansion tank with some fluorescent dye, drove for over 20 miles (no low water light this time).
Needs further investigation, but seems to be a hose or more likely the waterpump leaking onto the V of the engine.
OK, hard to see in the photographs, but I have never been happier to find a real puddle of water
Yesterday I filled the expansion tank with some fluorescent dye, drove for over 20 miles (no low water light this time).
Needs further investigation, but seems to be a hose or more likely the waterpump leaking onto the V of the engine.
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