Range Rover: is there any substitute?
Discussion
This car probably started the whole luxury SUV thing and IMHO with the exception of the end of the P38's run when the X5 and Mercedes ML came out, has probably dominated it since. In the process, it has probably killed off the large luxury saloon too, becoming the powerfully-built company director's vehicle of choice over the S-Class/7-Series/A8/XJ that they might have driven in the 90s. I've never been a big SUV kind of guy but it has probably even won over me at this point, having experienced but not owned L322/L405 Range Rovers. I've traditionally favoured an estate over an SUV but objectively something like an RS6 is probably too fast and big for B-roads, very expensive to run and won't offer as good a ride or as much comfort and practicality as a Range Rover, which at similar money is still quick enough to dispatch slow-moving traffic.
The luxury SUV market is a pretty crowded one these days and although the Range Rover is not the fastest or sportiest and is definitely not the cheapest, most reliable and cheapest to run but on balance is it still the best? Some versions of the X5, F-Pace and Cayenne are probably more sporty, the Urus faster and the Bentayga/Cullinan more luxurious but somehow those cars still seem a bit "try hard" and the Range Rover is still the classier choice?
So, have you owned Range Rovers and if so, why do you continue to buy them despite perhaps less than stellar reliability and high running costs or why perhaps did you choose something else instead? Are any of the competitors as good or does the Range Rover just have an X-factor that all the other luxury SUVs lack?
The luxury SUV market is a pretty crowded one these days and although the Range Rover is not the fastest or sportiest and is definitely not the cheapest, most reliable and cheapest to run but on balance is it still the best? Some versions of the X5, F-Pace and Cayenne are probably more sporty, the Urus faster and the Bentayga/Cullinan more luxurious but somehow those cars still seem a bit "try hard" and the Range Rover is still the classier choice?
So, have you owned Range Rovers and if so, why do you continue to buy them despite perhaps less than stellar reliability and high running costs or why perhaps did you choose something else instead? Are any of the competitors as good or does the Range Rover just have an X-factor that all the other luxury SUVs lack?
white_goodman said:
This car probably started the whole luxury SUV thing and IMHO with the exception of the end of the P38's run when the X5 and Mercedes ML came out, has probably dominated it since. In the process, it has probably killed off the large luxury saloon too, becoming the powerfully-built company director's vehicle of choice over the S-Class/7-Series/A8/XJ that they might have driven in the 90s. I've never been a big SUV kind of guy but it has probably even won over me at this point, having experienced but not owned L322/L405 Range Rovers. I've traditionally favoured an estate over an SUV but objectively something like an RS6 is probably too fast and big for B-roads, very expensive to run and won't offer as good a ride or as much comfort and practicality as a Range Rover, which at similar money is still quick enough to dispatch slow-moving traffic.
The luxury SUV market is a pretty crowded one these days and although the Range Rover is not the fastest or sportiest and is definitely not the cheapest, most reliable and cheapest to run but on balance is it still the best? Some versions of the X5, F-Pace and Cayenne are probably more sporty, the Urus faster and the Bentayga/Cullinan more luxurious but somehow those cars still seem a bit "try hard" and the Range Rover is still the classier choice?
So, have you owned Range Rovers and if so, why do you continue to buy them despite perhaps less than stellar reliability and high running costs or why perhaps did you choose something else instead? Are any of the competitors as good or does the Range Rover just have an X-factor that all the other luxury SUVs lack?
No, Yes, sort of, Probably The luxury SUV market is a pretty crowded one these days and although the Range Rover is not the fastest or sportiest and is definitely not the cheapest, most reliable and cheapest to run but on balance is it still the best? Some versions of the X5, F-Pace and Cayenne are probably more sporty, the Urus faster and the Bentayga/Cullinan more luxurious but somehow those cars still seem a bit "try hard" and the Range Rover is still the classier choice?
So, have you owned Range Rovers and if so, why do you continue to buy them despite perhaps less than stellar reliability and high running costs or why perhaps did you choose something else instead? Are any of the competitors as good or does the Range Rover just have an X-factor that all the other luxury SUVs lack?
The RR was the 1st for the UK/EU, but the Americans really beat us to the market with a luxury SUV.
As for the RR, I think they are still one of the best choices. The look ace, have great presence and nearly everyone likes them.
But it does depend on what you want. There are lots of options out there. Most of the German offerings are less off roady and more on roady vehicles. And for me, they are generally a bit too German inside. But that appeals to lots of people.
I guess it comes down to budget and what sort of model you are considering.
Arguably the biggest competitors to Range Rovers are the rest of the JLR product line up!!!!
In reality the new Defender (aka Discovery 6) sits in the market place the original Range Rover did.
But something like a Velar or F-Pace are going to be sharper on road vehicles than the RRS or FFRR and more road biased. So if you aren't towing, going to take it off road or want pretty much the best tow car you can get, they might be more sensible offerings to consider.
300bhp/ton said:
No, Yes, sort of, Probably
The RR was the 1st for the UK/EU, but the Americans really beat us to the market with a luxury SUV.
I was thinking Cadillac Escalade but wasn't that 90s or were you thinking something like the Jeep Wagoneer?The RR was the 1st for the UK/EU, but the Americans really beat us to the market with a luxury SUV.
It's the interior that really lifts the L322- Range Rovers over everything else for me and this is where the P38 (and probably the Classic) wasn't quite there IMHO. I'm sure that the Bentayga/Cullinan offer an even more luxurious interior experience but then you're perilously close to brash/tasteless territory but I concede that the Bentley probably drives really well.
white_goodman said:
I was thinking Cadillac Escalade but wasn't that 90s or were you thinking something like the Jeep Wagoneer?
It's the interior that really lifts the L322- Range Rovers over everything else for me and this is where the P38 (and probably the Classic) wasn't quite there IMHO. I'm sure that the Bentayga/Cullinan offer an even more luxurious interior experience but then you're perilously close to brash/tasteless territory but I concede that the Bentley probably drives really well.
Yep Jeep had the first SUV. But you can see a lot of parallels between LR and Jeep right up until the early 80’s. It's the interior that really lifts the L322- Range Rovers over everything else for me and this is where the P38 (and probably the Classic) wasn't quite there IMHO. I'm sure that the Bentayga/Cullinan offer an even more luxurious interior experience but then you're perilously close to brash/tasteless territory but I concede that the Bentley probably drives really well.
Interior wise. Well the p38 is what really moved the game along. Leather and wood everywhere. Plus it introduced the Autobiography models, where money was your only object. Any colours you desire inside and out. TV’s, DVD players etc.
The only real limitation was technology of the late 1990s. You can’t expect tech that didn’t exist to have been available.
The L322 continued this. Although personally I prefer the p38 interior ethos. The L322 seems to have a lot of BMW influence in the look and feel of the interior.
Mrs Yex has the Evoque, so the smallest car with the RR badge on it. It's a P250 MHEV and really does nothing for me at all. A couple of weeks ago I dropped into a LR Dealer to look at an SVR Sport (purely for research purposes of course
) and was lucky enough to park next to one of the very latest FFRR in P530 guise. It was absolutely lovely and very desirable as a car, but dear God it was huge 
I'm all for having a luxury 4*4 in a few years once I reach a certain age but I'm not 100% sure I'd be comfortable with a car that size on British single carriageway roads. I can't help thinking we are going the same way as the US with car sizes but don't have the road network capable of coping.
Plus the £200K+ cost that was mentioned to me by one of the sales team killed the idea off entirely.
) and was lucky enough to park next to one of the very latest FFRR in P530 guise. It was absolutely lovely and very desirable as a car, but dear God it was huge I'm all for having a luxury 4*4 in a few years once I reach a certain age but I'm not 100% sure I'd be comfortable with a car that size on British single carriageway roads. I can't help thinking we are going the same way as the US with car sizes but don't have the road network capable of coping.
Plus the £200K+ cost that was mentioned to me by one of the sales team killed the idea off entirely.
I owned an L322 Vogue SE TDV8 for a few years, frankly nothing else I've sat in has come close. It was very easy to do big mileage in, the car ate miles like most others do a trip to the shops. One of my jobs during that time was in Plymouth, and it meant leaving my house at 01:30 to get to work for 07:00. With the exception of a coffee stop at Gordano services Starbucks, the FFRR demolished the run in about a 3rd of a tank, and left me feeling like I'd not even been driving. The only thing I can imagine being comparable is a Jaguar XJ. Then you start talking about the road presence, the toys, the shear unstoppable prowess in all weathers and terrain (I took my partner to a secluded cottage in the Peak District one Christmas, which involved a steep farm track and a rutted pathway, the only other thing I saw make it was a Defender 110).
So no. Yes the Yanks make SUVs. So do the Germans. None of them are a Range Rover beater.
So no. Yes the Yanks make SUVs. So do the Germans. None of them are a Range Rover beater.
I'm on my third FFRR. Previously my big barges of choice had been XJs of various models from series III up to the last X351 XJR variant. None of these being new cars,usually bought about 5 years old.
Then bought an old 2001 P38 as a tip car and just loved it, bumbling and bouncing around at the weekends. When I was next between contracts I sold on the Jag and used the P38 mainly.
Got a new contract, needed something I could run up and down the M4 in, so got myself a L322 TDV8. What a fantastic all rounder, quick, quiet, relatively frugal (a car that did well over 20mpg, hadn't had that in many years and just so comfy and useful.
Then after a few years I got fed up with with the turbo lag on the TDV8 (split second lag when hoofing away from roundabouts) so decided to go FFRR 5.0 S/C. Still got it 7 years later, it's now a 12 year old car.
For me, particularly with the L322s, they give all the benefits of the XJs, but can seat 5 in utmost comfort, still have a boot big enough to just load in anything you could want, quick enough to never feel slow especially the 5.0 S/C and the high seating gives a much more relaxed driving experience as can see so much further ahead.
When time comes to replace my L322, it'll be a L405, probably a 4.4 TDV8, I'll go for a 8-10 year old for about £20k once they get down there, getting close now. None of the other potential alternatives have the combination of comfort, speed, presence and price of a FFRR , not for me anyways!
Then bought an old 2001 P38 as a tip car and just loved it, bumbling and bouncing around at the weekends. When I was next between contracts I sold on the Jag and used the P38 mainly.
Got a new contract, needed something I could run up and down the M4 in, so got myself a L322 TDV8. What a fantastic all rounder, quick, quiet, relatively frugal (a car that did well over 20mpg, hadn't had that in many years
and just so comfy and useful.Then after a few years I got fed up with with the turbo lag on the TDV8 (split second lag when hoofing away from roundabouts) so decided to go FFRR 5.0 S/C. Still got it 7 years later, it's now a 12 year old car.
For me, particularly with the L322s, they give all the benefits of the XJs, but can seat 5 in utmost comfort, still have a boot big enough to just load in anything you could want, quick enough to never feel slow especially the 5.0 S/C and the high seating gives a much more relaxed driving experience as can see so much further ahead.
When time comes to replace my L322, it'll be a L405, probably a 4.4 TDV8, I'll go for a 8-10 year old for about £20k once they get down there, getting close now. None of the other potential alternatives have the combination of comfort, speed, presence and price of a FFRR , not for me anyways!
If you want a FFRR then there is no substitute; beyond that truism, it certainly is a car that has a unique and enviable market position - perceived as more special than a Q7/X7/GLS but somehow less gauche than a Bentley or Royce. To my mind it's also the legitimate entity in the market place, the rest are having a stab at something that's not really their thing - squatters trying to flip a buck on someone else's front lawn (Jeep excepted...)
There were various renders of an S-Class estate in 2020, which I'd view as a proper RR alternative for those who don't care for the umpire's chair experience. Again, it's something that dovetails much better with the brand - MB doing what they do as opposed to having a pop at something their heart's not into.
There were various renders of an S-Class estate in 2020, which I'd view as a proper RR alternative for those who don't care for the umpire's chair experience. Again, it's something that dovetails much better with the brand - MB doing what they do as opposed to having a pop at something their heart's not into.
Yex GTR said:
Mrs Yex has the Evoque, so the smallest car with the RR badge on it. It's a P250 MHEV and really does nothing for me at all. A couple of weeks ago I dropped into a LR Dealer to look at an SVR Sport (purely for research purposes of course ) and was lucky enough to park next to one of the very latest FFRR in P530 guise. It was absolutely lovely and very desirable as a car, but dear God it was huge
I'm all for having a luxury 4*4 in a few years once I reach a certain age but I'm not 100% sure I'd be comfortable with a car that size on British single carriageway roads. I can't help thinking we are going the same way as the US with car sizes but don't have the road network capable of coping.
Plus the £200K+ cost that was mentioned to me by one of the sales team killed the idea off entirely.
The new model is firmly aimed at the US market and places like Dubai/middle east, where the size is less of an issue. ) and was lucky enough to park next to one of the very latest FFRR in P530 guise. It was absolutely lovely and very desirable as a car, but dear God it was huge I'm all for having a luxury 4*4 in a few years once I reach a certain age but I'm not 100% sure I'd be comfortable with a car that size on British single carriageway roads. I can't help thinking we are going the same way as the US with car sizes but don't have the road network capable of coping.
Plus the £200K+ cost that was mentioned to me by one of the sales team killed the idea off entirely.
white_goodman said:
I was thinking Cadillac Escalade but wasn't that 90s or were you thinking something like the Jeep Wagoneer?
Just to answer more fully.The first SUV, although the phrase wasn't coined then (nor was it for the original RR) was probably the 1946 Willy Wagon. Although at the time labelled as a Station Wagon, but it was a step up from what a regular Willys CJ jeep was.
Followed by the 1963 Wagoneer being much more akin to the basic design and ethos of the original Range Rover, which was still several years away.
Rover did dabble prior to the Range Rover with the Road Rover prototypes, but of course we know they never made production. It's kind of interesting how the they do bear some visual similarities to the Willys (Jeeps) above.
Of course the original RR wasn't quite so plush inside either. It was something you could hose out and was a lot more basic than latter offerings.
Wife has an L405 FFRR and I had a Disco 4 - now I've moved onto a Disco 5.
They're all utterly brilliant.
I just did the LR Experience in a Disco 5 and despite experience of LR stuff in the snow / Alps, the experience did open my eyes somewhat. It was astonishing what we could do in it - and in sheer luxury. Going into wade mode, which closes flaps and does all sorts of fancy stuff let us get up to our elbows in water... and feeling the wheels leave the floor momentarily as the suspension extended to find ground. Just incredible.
Our L405 has a light interior as well as glass roof... such a lovely place to be on a long jaunt. As others have said, they possess a brand / niche that nobody can touch, in that the class / capability combo is unrivalled.
They're all utterly brilliant.
I just did the LR Experience in a Disco 5 and despite experience of LR stuff in the snow / Alps, the experience did open my eyes somewhat. It was astonishing what we could do in it - and in sheer luxury. Going into wade mode, which closes flaps and does all sorts of fancy stuff let us get up to our elbows in water... and feeling the wheels leave the floor momentarily as the suspension extended to find ground. Just incredible.
Our L405 has a light interior as well as glass roof... such a lovely place to be on a long jaunt. As others have said, they possess a brand / niche that nobody can touch, in that the class / capability combo is unrivalled.
I am a huge fan of the Range Rover proposition and its Swiss-Army knife abilities. It has of course, as previous posters said already, moved beyond its utilitarian-first image to become the default luxury car for anyone who wants the cosseting feel and the driving position.
Yet..
I know this will be criticised by the good folk on here, however I can’t reconcile with the image of so many of them now.
Black pack seems to be the default spec - just black out the grill, the wheels, or anything which actually gives the car its character.
above all of course, black out the windows. Of the hundreds of Range Rovers for sale online, fewer than 10% have clear glass.
Spen King’s original design was magnificent for having the “floating roof” effect where the body coloured roof sat above the glass.
That signature design thread is at risk of disappearing entirely due to black “contrast” roofs (why!!) and nearly every other RR being black (why??) , which just leads to their image being that of a modern urban tank..
which brings me finally to some of the owners. Try meeting one of these black Panzer drivers on a side street, anywhere. They have a space to reverse into, 200
ft behind them. You have a space 10-12 car lengths back. Who do you think is reversing?
So yeah I absolutely adore the proposition. But I hate the modern driver of so many of these things.
Yet..
I know this will be criticised by the good folk on here, however I can’t reconcile with the image of so many of them now.
Black pack seems to be the default spec - just black out the grill, the wheels, or anything which actually gives the car its character.
above all of course, black out the windows. Of the hundreds of Range Rovers for sale online, fewer than 10% have clear glass.
Spen King’s original design was magnificent for having the “floating roof” effect where the body coloured roof sat above the glass.
That signature design thread is at risk of disappearing entirely due to black “contrast” roofs (why!!) and nearly every other RR being black (why??) , which just leads to their image being that of a modern urban tank..
which brings me finally to some of the owners. Try meeting one of these black Panzer drivers on a side street, anywhere. They have a space to reverse into, 200
ft behind them. You have a space 10-12 car lengths back. Who do you think is reversing?
So yeah I absolutely adore the proposition. But I hate the modern driver of so many of these things.
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