Low range stall - Defender TD5
Discussion
There has been a great deal of snow this weekend in Finland and I had to drive out of a half metre drift this morning. Expecting to need low range I select it together with 1st gear and the car moved but then stalled. Almost felt it ran out of power, even though it was a flat surface. I put it back in high and drove it as normal and it sailed out of the snowdrift (studded tyres).
Am I doing something wrong with regards to using low range? My car doesn't have traction control so may not have the anti-stall function and this incident would also confirm that.
Am I doing something wrong with regards to using low range? My car doesn't have traction control so may not have the anti-stall function and this incident would also confirm that.
Sisu9 said:
There has been a great deal of snow this weekend in Finland and I had to drive out of a half metre drift this morning. Expecting to need low range I select it together with 1st gear and the car moved but then stalled. Almost felt it ran out of power, even though it was a flat surface. I put it back in high and drove it as normal and it sailed out of the snowdrift (studded tyres).
Am I doing something wrong with regards to using low range? My car doesn't have traction control so may not have the anti-stall function and this incident would also confirm that.
Without being there, it's hard to tell what was happening but just because you're in 1st Low, doesn't mean you can't stall it.Am I doing something wrong with regards to using low range? My car doesn't have traction control so may not have the anti-stall function and this incident would also confirm that.
As for 'Anti-stall', EVERY fuel injected engine has an element of anti-stall, thanks to the way the ECU works at idle. All that that's different with the Defender is that the LR marketing machine decided to label it as a 'feature'.
M
camel_landy said:
Without being there, it's hard to tell what was happening but just because you're in 1st Low, doesn't mean you can't stall it.
As for 'Anti-stall', EVERY fuel injected engine has an element of anti-stall, thanks to the way the ECU works at idle. All that that's different with the Defender is that the LR marketing machine decided to label it as a 'feature'.
M
I found this as a beneficial side-effect when I fuel-injected my 3.9 - it wil pull from engine speeds which make me think it has stalled but it recovers and keeps growling. :-)As for 'Anti-stall', EVERY fuel injected engine has an element of anti-stall, thanks to the way the ECU works at idle. All that that's different with the Defender is that the LR marketing machine decided to label it as a 'feature'.
M
100SRV said:
camel_landy said:
Without being there, it's hard to tell what was happening but just because you're in 1st Low, doesn't mean you can't stall it.
As for 'Anti-stall', EVERY fuel injected engine has an element of anti-stall, thanks to the way the ECU works at idle. All that that's different with the Defender is that the LR marketing machine decided to label it as a 'feature'.
M
I found this as a beneficial side-effect when I fuel-injected my 3.9 - it wil pull from engine speeds which make me think it has stalled but it recovers and keeps growling. :-)As for 'Anti-stall', EVERY fuel injected engine has an element of anti-stall, thanks to the way the ECU works at idle. All that that's different with the Defender is that the LR marketing machine decided to label it as a 'feature'.
M
If you did any of the driver training at LR, you're taught how to exploit this, so you can do hill starts without using the handbrake.
M
camel_landy said:
This is how it was demonstrated at the 07MY launch (OMG - That was 15yrs ago!!!)
If you did any of the driver training at LR, you're taught how to exploit this, so you can do hill starts without using the handbrake.
M
2.4 TDci not really all that relevant when discussing the Td5 though. If you did any of the driver training at LR, you're taught how to exploit this, so you can do hill starts without using the handbrake.
M
Sisu9 said:
There has been a great deal of snow this weekend in Finland and I had to drive out of a half metre drift this morning. Expecting to need low range I select it together with 1st gear and the car moved but then stalled. Almost felt it ran out of power, even though it was a flat surface. I put it back in high and drove it as normal and it sailed out of the snowdrift (studded tyres).
Am I doing something wrong with regards to using low range? My car doesn't have traction control so may not have the anti-stall function and this incident would also confirm that.
How was it stalling? At low rpm, idle, power on, high revs?Am I doing something wrong with regards to using low range? My car doesn't have traction control so may not have the anti-stall function and this incident would also confirm that.
300bhp/ton said:
camel_landy said:
This is how it was demonstrated at the 07MY launch (OMG - That was 15yrs ago!!!)
If you did any of the driver training at LR, you're taught how to exploit this, so you can do hill starts without using the handbrake.
M
2.4 TDci not really all that relevant when discussing the Td5 though. If you did any of the driver training at LR, you're taught how to exploit this, so you can do hill starts without using the handbrake.
M
300bhp/ton said:
Crossflow Kid said:
The underlying technology is still the same
Yet fundamentally different as anti stall is far more heavily engineered in on the Puma models over the TD5’s. Making them much harder to stall. FUNDAMENTALLY - It is the SAME.
However, the THRESHOLDS they are set to are different.
It's just a feedback loop, for the ECU to monitor the engine idle speed.
Welcome back...
M
Edited by camel_landy on Tuesday 8th February 10:09
camel_landy said:
FFS... No.
FUNDAMENTALLY - It is the SAME.
However, the THRESHOLDS they are set to are different.
It's just a feedback loop, for the ECU to monitor the engine idle speed.
Welcome back...
M
So how does any of this help the op figure out what is going on with their vehicle? Don’t get me wrong the video is cool (seen it before). But ultimately it is no relevance to the issue under discussion. FUNDAMENTALLY - It is the SAME.
However, the THRESHOLDS they are set to are different.
It's just a feedback loop, for the ECU to monitor the engine idle speed.
Welcome back...
M
Edited by camel_landy on Tuesday 8th February 10:09
300bhp/ton said:
So how does any of this help the op figure out what is going on with their vehicle? Don’t get me wrong the video is cool (seen it before). But ultimately it is no relevance to the issue under discussion.
It has got every relevance, so stop turning it into yet another one of your bun-fights. 
It's about explaining what "Anti-stall" actually is and that just because something has been labelled as "Anti-stall", doesn't mean it can't stall. Additionally, the OP was also making a connection between "Anti-Stall" and "Traction Control", where as it's merely an unexpected benefit of having an engine with an EFi system (which LR then went on to label it as a 'Feature'
).Without further details, we're not speculating on how the OP stalled the car in the first place (but if I were to speculate, it would be too much grip from the tyres vs the resistance from the snow). We're providing detail, so the OP can better understand and be better prepared incase it happens again.
M
PS - Something I haven't mentioned is that the "Anti-Stall" feedback loop is only available at tick-over/idle. As soon as you touch the throttle, it's down to you...
Sisu9 said:
I've tried low range with diff-lock in first gear twice in deep snow. One on an incline and once on the flat. At low revs and high revs respectively. Both times it stalled, but not straightaway on high revs as it did on low revs.
When you were in 1st Low, at low revs, were you touching the throttle?If you were, keep your feet away from the pedals and try it again.
As long as you've got good traction, there should be enough torque to climb a moderate hill, even at tick-over/idle when in 1st Low. I'd also suggest that if you're using studded tyres, you might want to disengage diff-lock if you've got good traction.
However, if the car is also trying to push through deep snow at the time, I'm not surprised it's stalling on you. For those conditions, you're going to need some momentum, to push through the snow.
M
Edited by camel_landy on Wednesday 9th February 23:32
Ok, I'll stay away from the throttle. I am on studded tyres but I figured I would have needed diff lock & low range as the snow was about 80cms deep and had iced over. On each occasion, it turned out I could get free without these but I saw it is as a chance to have a play with the additional gearbox.
Sisu9 said:
Ok, I'll stay away from the throttle. I am on studded tyres but I figured I would have needed diff lock & low range as the snow was about 80cms deep and had iced over. On each occasion, it turned out I could get free without these but I saw it is as a chance to have a play with the additional gearbox.
80cm deep... Yep, it sounds to me as though you're going to need momentum to get through that.As the tyres are studded, it sounds like you're getting as much traction as if you were using normal tyres on tarmac. If that's the case, you don't want to be using diff-lock as you'll end up with transmission 'wind-up'. Whilst diff-lock is intended for use on slippery/loose surfaces (mud, snow, ice, gravel, sand, etc), the studded tyres means it's no longer 'slippery'... If you see what I mean.
M
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