New Information on Land Rover DPF Issues
Discussion
Just giving this a refresh as new information has emerged about the extent of the issue. Particularly important now as more potentially faulty cars are reaching the end of their initial lease (and 3 year warranty) and finding their way into the used car market. It affects these nameplates:
Land Rover Discovery Sport 2.0L diesels 2016-on
Range Rover Evoque 2.0L diesels 2016-on
Jaguar E-Pace 2.0L 2017-on
Unless you drive exclusively long distances at high speed these vehicles are likely to experience DPF problems causing:
a) shortened servicing intervals, and
b) DPF clogging, possibly leading to complete failure.
New information (Sept 2020) suggests that during Urban driving the DPF might need to "self-clean" every 75 to 100 miles, a process that JLR now concedes takes 40 minutes (doubling its original estimate of 10 to 20 minutest). The car must be driven at 40-70 mph (covering at least 26 miles) to ensure the DPF cleaning process completes, according to a revised DPF disclaimer linked in the document below. For some drivers this could mean that 25% of their mileage is spent performing active regeneration by the process of post injection of diesel.
Original JLR disclosure - www.discosportforums.co.uk/download/file.php?id=59...
Updated Tech Guide - www.dropbox.com/s/d0bcrd7sve4l598/D8_Dilution_Expl...
USA Class Action (filed May 2020) - www.classaction.org/media/shaaya-v-jaguar-land-rov...
JLR dealers are now fully aware of the risks to Urban/Rural drivers. But many non-JLR dealers still won't have access to this information.
Land Rover Discovery Sport 2.0L diesels 2016-on
Range Rover Evoque 2.0L diesels 2016-on
Jaguar E-Pace 2.0L 2017-on
Unless you drive exclusively long distances at high speed these vehicles are likely to experience DPF problems causing:
a) shortened servicing intervals, and
b) DPF clogging, possibly leading to complete failure.
New information (Sept 2020) suggests that during Urban driving the DPF might need to "self-clean" every 75 to 100 miles, a process that JLR now concedes takes 40 minutes (doubling its original estimate of 10 to 20 minutest). The car must be driven at 40-70 mph (covering at least 26 miles) to ensure the DPF cleaning process completes, according to a revised DPF disclaimer linked in the document below. For some drivers this could mean that 25% of their mileage is spent performing active regeneration by the process of post injection of diesel.
Original JLR disclosure - www.discosportforums.co.uk/download/file.php?id=59...
Updated Tech Guide - www.dropbox.com/s/d0bcrd7sve4l598/D8_Dilution_Expl...
USA Class Action (filed May 2020) - www.classaction.org/media/shaaya-v-jaguar-land-rov...
JLR dealers are now fully aware of the risks to Urban/Rural drivers. But many non-JLR dealers still won't have access to this information.
Edited by Grimsby on Sunday 4th October 23:11
Edited by Grimsby on Sunday 4th October 23:12
It does seem to depend on the car though. Whilst there are people who have problems there are ohers that don't....
My wife drives a near three year old 2.0 Disco Sport. Lots of short runs (<10 mile) mixed with a variety of longer ones. She's not had a single DPF issue ever; no reds, no ambers, nothing. Other than a couple of minor defects when new that were promptly fixed under warranty the car has been perfect. Yes it needed an oil change early at 13k, but that was FOC and in any case 21k is IMO way too long for a first oil service. We are buying it at the end of the PCP in Nov. We will also buy a good warranty, just in case. We did look at the new ones, but couldn't justify the cost. My wife loves the car and it makes a great family wagon.
My wife drives a near three year old 2.0 Disco Sport. Lots of short runs (<10 mile) mixed with a variety of longer ones. She's not had a single DPF issue ever; no reds, no ambers, nothing. Other than a couple of minor defects when new that were promptly fixed under warranty the car has been perfect. Yes it needed an oil change early at 13k, but that was FOC and in any case 21k is IMO way too long for a first oil service. We are buying it at the end of the PCP in Nov. We will also buy a good warranty, just in case. We did look at the new ones, but couldn't justify the cost. My wife loves the car and it makes a great family wagon.
Yes, it seems that there's a very sharp cut off line: fall one side of it and (estimated dilution at 10% of course) things run smoothly. Fall the other side of it and the cars are a nightmare. The point behind this refresh is really to raise awareness in general and particularly to alert second owners. Many cars will have fallen one side of that line with the first owner (company car, sales rep, etc), but then been resold to someone who is doing only 6000 miles a year around town and - bingo - a car that was OK, suddenly becomes a basket case.
That makes it sound like driving style, and at the extremes it is. But the "average" middle is much more problematic, because it is here that we find normal, or typical, driving styles that would be OK with the Jaguar XE, but far from OK with the DS and Evoque.
When the engine is the same, the manufacturer is the same and the driving style is the same but yet changing the body shell produces a different outcome, what would we call it?
Do we call it a "car problem" or a "driving style problem"?
That makes it sound like driving style, and at the extremes it is. But the "average" middle is much more problematic, because it is here that we find normal, or typical, driving styles that would be OK with the Jaguar XE, but far from OK with the DS and Evoque.
When the engine is the same, the manufacturer is the same and the driving style is the same but yet changing the body shell produces a different outcome, what would we call it?
Do we call it a "car problem" or a "driving style problem"?
Thanks for sharing, decided if our rural use Freelander 2 SD4 ever gets upgraded(?) to a Discovery Sport it will be a similarly engined early 2.2 model, as this engine seems to be coping OK with mainly shortish rural journeys. 2 years now without a problem.
Edited by Drekly on Monday 5th October 21:58
Drekly said:
Thanks for sharing, decided if our rural use Freelander 2 SD4 ever gets upgraded(?) to a Discovery Sport it will be an similarly engined early 2.2 model, as this engine seems to be coping OK with mainly shortish rural journeys. 2 years now without a problem.
I have a DS with the Freelander Ford 2.2 engine. It's the 2015 first release version of the DS. Approaching 40000 miles, no DPF related issues and none expected.R.
I took out a 36 month contract hire on a Range Rover Evoque 2.0L diesel 2wd in June 2020. On the garage "Demands and Needs Questionnaire" I entered an annual mileage of 7k, but in the first 12 months covered only 5,5k miles. The car has been back to the garage for 2 replacement exhausts for a DPF problem - replaced under warranty. The engine management light [orange] has illuminated on the dashboard again, the car taken back to the garage but they now want £2k to replace the exhaust. Their reasoning being that I have not covered the 7,000 miles as I indicated at the the point of sale. After reading many posts about this, I find out I am not alone with a Range Rover DPF problem, and also read there has been a group legal action in the US about this matter. I find out that Dealerships have been made aware of the high incidence of this problem, but is it a case of dealers putting profit first and not correctly assessing the needs and driving styles of their customers. I predominantly do short start stop journeys in built up areas. Had the most basic of questions regarding driving style / journey profile been asked during the sales process I would not be in this position. The dealer principle has fobbed me off claiming the mileage alone is the cause of the problem, and not the journey profile that is causing the DPF clogging. I suspect I am in a similar position to that of many other disgruntled customers. Any advice would be useful as I am now contemplating legal action to recover the 2k.
Willybob said:
I took out a 36 month contract hire on a Range Rover Evoque 2.0L diesel 2wd in June 2020. On the garage "Demands and Needs Questionnaire" I entered an annual mileage of 7k, but in the first 12 months covered only 5,5k miles. The car has been back to the garage for 2 replacement exhausts for a DPF problem - replaced under warranty. The engine management light [orange] has illuminated on the dashboard again, the car taken back to the garage but they now want £2k to replace the exhaust. Their reasoning being that I have not covered the 7,000 miles as I indicated at the the point of sale. After reading many posts about this, I find out I am not alone with a Range Rover DPF problem, and also read there has been a group legal action in the US about this matter. I find out that Dealerships have been made aware of the high incidence of this problem, but is it a case of dealers putting profit first and not correctly assessing the needs and driving styles of their customers. I predominantly do short start stop journeys in built up areas. Had the most basic of questions regarding driving style / journey profile been asked during the sales process I would not be in this position. The dealer principle has fobbed me off claiming the mileage alone is the cause of the problem, and not the journey profile that is causing the DPF clogging. I suspect I am in a similar position to that of many other disgruntled customers. Any advice would be useful as I am now contemplating legal action to recover the 2k.
Sounds mental to me… why should LR of the dealer mandate precisely how many miles a car should be driven. Lots of cars will be getting used less than anticipated over the past two years. Another reason to avoid the brand.A.J.M said:
And yet the dpf filter in my Freelander works perfectly fine and has no issues…
Maybe it’s a mix of car and driver at fault?
If you are doing lots of town trips then give it a long run to help it regenerate every so often.
No, the Freelander is OK as regards DPF issues because the engine configuration (in line) allows the DPF to be positioned up close to the exhaust manifold. This was the same set up for the DS 2015 when first introduced with the same inline Ford 2.2 engine. For the DS from 2016 when the Freelander engine was dumped, the engine configuration was changed to transverse with no space for the DPF to be fitted up close to the exhaust manifold, so it is located too far away, hence it fails to operate as efficiently as it was designed for.Maybe it’s a mix of car and driver at fault?
If you are doing lots of town trips then give it a long run to help it regenerate every so often.
I have a 2015 DS with the ex Freelander engine, never had a DPF issue.
R.
Grimsby said:
Jaguar E-Pace 2.0L 2017-on
DPF might need to "self-clean" every 75 to 100 miles, a process that JLR now concedes takes 40 minutes (doubling its original estimate of 10 to 20 minutest). The car must be driven at 40-70 mph (covering at least 26 miles) to ensure the DPF cleaning process completes
When I had my E-Pace the regens were about every 100 miles as is suggested but only took 10-20 minutes as was originally suggested. Although I did fairly regular long runs for work the regens I noticed were on short journeys and (in order to try and protect the DPF) meant driving up and down roads near home/work giving the regen a chance to finish. It frequently would do a regen on the first (normally) short drive after a long trip. For example, I would do a 400 mile round trip to our branch in Yorkshire then stop to fill up at the petrol station closest to home. It would then decide to start a regen during the one mile drive home from there. This got pretty old pretty quickly as it meant I was consistently needing to leave extra time for my journeys just in case the regen wanted to happen that day. DPF might need to "self-clean" every 75 to 100 miles, a process that JLR now concedes takes 40 minutes (doubling its original estimate of 10 to 20 minutest). The car must be driven at 40-70 mph (covering at least 26 miles) to ensure the DPF cleaning process completes
After 9 months I got rid of it and swapped into a petrol Audi. No more early starts, planning ahead or driving round and round to let regens finish. As a side note, the Audi in terms of ergonomics and interior design & quality felt years ahead of the E-Pace despite technically being an older design. The E-Pace looked great and had great front seats but is flawed in to many other ways. Shame.
I started a thread on these issues back in October 2017
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Seems the game has moved on alittle but the issues are still there and always will be. The concern is, as pointed out above 3 year lease / PCP deals are ending with those vehicles entering the used market. As said previously, DPF and oil dilution issues are likely to result in failed turbo's and engines so these vehicles will soon become very expensive to repair.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Seems the game has moved on alittle but the issues are still there and always will be. The concern is, as pointed out above 3 year lease / PCP deals are ending with those vehicles entering the used market. As said previously, DPF and oil dilution issues are likely to result in failed turbo's and engines so these vehicles will soon become very expensive to repair.
The Leaper said:
No, the Freelander is OK as regards DPF issues because the engine configuration (in line) allows the DPF to be positioned up close to the exhaust manifold. This was the same set up for the DS 2015 when first introduced with the same inline Ford 2.2 engine. For the DS from 2016 when the Freelander engine was dumped, the engine configuration was changed to transverse with no space for the DPF to be fitted up close to the exhaust manifold, so it is located too far away, hence it fails to operate as efficiently as it was designed for.
I have a 2015 DS with the ex Freelander engine, never had a DPF issue.
R.
Every Freelander, Evoque and Disco Sport ever made has a transverse engine. Non have ever had a longitudinal engine. It’s just that it is thought that something changed with how they can position the DPF on the later models that caused the issueI have a 2015 DS with the ex Freelander engine, never had a DPF issue.
R.
blueST said:
The Leaper said:
No, the Freelander is OK as regards DPF issues because the engine configuration (in line) allows the DPF to be positioned up close to the exhaust manifold. This was the same set up for the DS 2015 when first introduced with the same inline Ford 2.2 engine. For the DS from 2016 when the Freelander engine was dumped, the engine configuration was changed to transverse with no space for the DPF to be fitted up close to the exhaust manifold, so it is located too far away, hence it fails to operate as efficiently as it was designed for.
I have a 2015 DS with the ex Freelander engine, never had a DPF issue.
R.
Every Freelander, Evoque and Disco Sport ever made has a transverse engine. Non have ever had a longitudinal engine. It’s just that it is thought that something changed with how they can position the DPF on the later models that caused the issueI have a 2015 DS with the ex Freelander engine, never had a DPF issue.
R.
The Freelander diesel engines were all inline and this was carried over to the 2015 model DS. The subsequent models all have a transverse layout, hence the DPF problems.
R.
The Leaper said:
Incorrect.
The Freelander diesel engines were all inline and this was carried over to the 2015 model DS. The subsequent models all have a transverse layout, hence the DPF problems.
R.
They are all in-line except for they KV6 on the Freelander 1. That refers to the cylinder layout, not engine orientation. They are all transverse layout installation from the 1st F1 to the latest Disco Sport. The Freelander diesel engines were all inline and this was carried over to the 2015 model DS. The subsequent models all have a transverse layout, hence the DPF problems.
R.
We've had a 17 180d auto for 2.5 years. The wife drives it daily with lots of short journeys <3 miles. Once a week it does a run of maybe 7 miles on the motorway. Once a month on average it tows a caravan maybe 50 miles or so. Never had a dpf warning. Even in lockdown when there was no caravanning the dpf was happy.
The Leaper said:
No, the Freelander is OK as regards DPF issues because the engine configuration (in line) allows the DPF to be positioned up close to the exhaust manifold. This was the same set up for the DS 2015 when first introduced with the same inline Ford 2.2 engine. For the DS from 2016 when the Freelander engine was dumped, the engine configuration was changed to transverse with no space for the DPF to be fitted up close to the exhaust manifold, so it is located too far away, hence it fails to operate as efficiently as it was designed for.
I have a 2015 DS with the ex Freelander engine, never had a DPF issue.
R.
Np, Freelander 2 and DS have transverse engines.I have a 2015 DS with the ex Freelander engine, never had a DPF issue.
R.
I have had a late model Freelander 2, 2.2 190 Duratorq? and 3 Ingenium
D180 DS, I think my Velar - if they ever get round to building it - has the longitudinal Ingenium D200
I've not had any DPF issues on any of my DSs. All have been used on very - very = short urban journeys. One wanted an early service, but as someone said above, 2 years is too long to not change the oil anyway.
Since we moved 5 moths ago the present DS is a 2020 MHEV and it gets a daily 30 mile commute, most of which is on 60MPH and 70MPH roads so I am praying it will be trouble free until March of April when the new Velar should arrive. It spent a lot of its first year laid-up like most other cars because of lockdown. One thing I have noticed since it started getting it's regular 30 mile a day run is that it seems to consume more exhaust fluid than the others. Could that be a sign of something?
Edited by Wildcat45 on Sunday 7th November 00:31
Hello, I've just joined PH after searching for information about DPF issues with Land Rover models, it appears I'm not alone. I having been discussing with the Exec Office of JLR about another issue with my 2016 Disco 4 after the Turbo actuator failed in May after just 24k miles. I now have an Orange warning light on, so booked into JLR, sharp intake of breath, might be the DPF love! I'm arguing with JLR about the fact that this car has only done 30K miles, been serviced more than needed and still an issue.
Not once was I advised to avoid a Diesel when I purchased it last Sept and wasnt asked about my driving habits ie short journeys.
My argument to JLR is that considering certainly the Disco and Defender are working vehicles ie they spend a lot of time off road, farm vehicles, towing horseboxes etc that this should have been rectified years ago.
I have just had a company visit to clean my DPF filter (£250) and his exact words were "get rid of it, it will happen again and again" Not very comforting.
This is on a PCP and i put down a substantial 5 figure deposit to swap from my RRSport to this model and think ive been mis sold. I really cant afford to walk away from it so am considering legal action to force a refund, reject the car and walk away. Having looked at other similar cases in the US this is what theyve done. Has anyone else taken legal action yet?
Not once was I advised to avoid a Diesel when I purchased it last Sept and wasnt asked about my driving habits ie short journeys.
My argument to JLR is that considering certainly the Disco and Defender are working vehicles ie they spend a lot of time off road, farm vehicles, towing horseboxes etc that this should have been rectified years ago.
I have just had a company visit to clean my DPF filter (£250) and his exact words were "get rid of it, it will happen again and again" Not very comforting.
This is on a PCP and i put down a substantial 5 figure deposit to swap from my RRSport to this model and think ive been mis sold. I really cant afford to walk away from it so am considering legal action to force a refund, reject the car and walk away. Having looked at other similar cases in the US this is what theyve done. Has anyone else taken legal action yet?
Hi, I own a 2014 3.0 diesel Range Rover Vogue and I find all this discussion very interesting but so much of it contradictory as well.
Due to now being retired and added restrictions due to Covid etc my mileage is a mixture of short journeys (75%) and longer, continuous journeys (25%).
Although I have never had any warnings about DPF blockage, my MOT station had to carry out a "mini" regeneration to get the car through the exhaust emissions test. They told me that engine speed (revs) need to be higher than normal for the regen procedure to be effective. Does this mean that I should drive along a motorway for example for twenty minutes at 50/60mph with the gearbox held in 3rd gear to get the job done?
Forgive my ignorance on this matter.
Due to now being retired and added restrictions due to Covid etc my mileage is a mixture of short journeys (75%) and longer, continuous journeys (25%).
Although I have never had any warnings about DPF blockage, my MOT station had to carry out a "mini" regeneration to get the car through the exhaust emissions test. They told me that engine speed (revs) need to be higher than normal for the regen procedure to be effective. Does this mean that I should drive along a motorway for example for twenty minutes at 50/60mph with the gearbox held in 3rd gear to get the job done?
Forgive my ignorance on this matter.
Yikes
Transverse is how the engine is mounted in the engine bay (left to right for transverse)
In-line usually refers to the cylinder configuration of the engine but can also refer to how it's mounted (Inline in the car - front to back)
No surprises that the Ford sourced 2.2 works pretty well and the LR designed Ingenium doesn't. What a shocker.
Transverse is how the engine is mounted in the engine bay (left to right for transverse)
In-line usually refers to the cylinder configuration of the engine but can also refer to how it's mounted (Inline in the car - front to back)
No surprises that the Ford sourced 2.2 works pretty well and the LR designed Ingenium doesn't. What a shocker.
My wife has a 2020 Evoque D180, recently it displayed oil service required 1100 miles at just over 10k. So got a quote and booked it in.
On arrival was informed it may get changed under warranty. Following oil analysis it was found to be 9 percent diluted so changed FOC, surprised by this so done some research and found out about the DPF and oil dilution issues.
Car is mainly used for short journeys, is there a way of triggering a regeneration when I start a longer journey? On an older 2.2 Evoque was told to drop it down a few gears when on a motorway. That done 50k + miles without any DPF problems although it went through quite a few EGR valves.
On arrival was informed it may get changed under warranty. Following oil analysis it was found to be 9 percent diluted so changed FOC, surprised by this so done some research and found out about the DPF and oil dilution issues.
Car is mainly used for short journeys, is there a way of triggering a regeneration when I start a longer journey? On an older 2.2 Evoque was told to drop it down a few gears when on a motorway. That done 50k + miles without any DPF problems although it went through quite a few EGR valves.
Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff