Defenders and current prices
Discussion
Im looking for a new project and have obsessed over a previous (pref 2008 onwards) Defender 110 wagon or pick up, and 130 pick ups lately. i've kept an eye on the classifieds for the last few months and i can't understand the market really..
there are bog standard 110s (Station wagons generally, pick ups seem to hold a premium?) for around £17-£20k. These seem to be pre 08 examples with usually well over 100k miles on them and in average condition. Better examples with slightly lower miles are found at third party dealers, which makes sense for circa £19k-£25k.
Then there are modified examples (Twisted/Urban/Chelsea tractor company etc etc) which are at the very least, £35k and extremely upwards. They all seem to be based on reasonably aged cars (circa 08-14) and have reasonable miles (circa 80k odd).
So basically from what i gather, modified Defenders are fetching more money - am i correct? This is of course assuming their mechanically sound and free of rust with a good history behind them etc. Seems the demand is either still strong, or is actually getting stronger. Probably from newbies like me who want a piece of the pie all of a sudden.
130's seem to be quite rare, but as an example https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007161... seems to be asking for £30k. I simply have little clue if a modified 130 like this is worth £30k.
Would you say that generally, The market for Defenders is appreciating? Nothing seems to be dropping in value and im questioning whether if i want one, is to buy one now before they start becoming even more ridiculously priced. I've read on earlier threads here from a few years ago that people predicted this was a bubble waiting to burst, but i beg to differ.
The Defender market reminds me of the VW Transporter market in a way. (Some) examples are old with high mileage, yet they hold their value incredibly well compared to anything else similar to it - and the aftermarket / modification market is simply massive.
there are bog standard 110s (Station wagons generally, pick ups seem to hold a premium?) for around £17-£20k. These seem to be pre 08 examples with usually well over 100k miles on them and in average condition. Better examples with slightly lower miles are found at third party dealers, which makes sense for circa £19k-£25k.
Then there are modified examples (Twisted/Urban/Chelsea tractor company etc etc) which are at the very least, £35k and extremely upwards. They all seem to be based on reasonably aged cars (circa 08-14) and have reasonable miles (circa 80k odd).
So basically from what i gather, modified Defenders are fetching more money - am i correct? This is of course assuming their mechanically sound and free of rust with a good history behind them etc. Seems the demand is either still strong, or is actually getting stronger. Probably from newbies like me who want a piece of the pie all of a sudden.
130's seem to be quite rare, but as an example https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007161... seems to be asking for £30k. I simply have little clue if a modified 130 like this is worth £30k.
Would you say that generally, The market for Defenders is appreciating? Nothing seems to be dropping in value and im questioning whether if i want one, is to buy one now before they start becoming even more ridiculously priced. I've read on earlier threads here from a few years ago that people predicted this was a bubble waiting to burst, but i beg to differ.
The Defender market reminds me of the VW Transporter market in a way. (Some) examples are old with high mileage, yet they hold their value incredibly well compared to anything else similar to it - and the aftermarket / modification market is simply massive.
Edited by irfan1712 on Tuesday 25th August 15:03
I think you are right, Defender prices do seem to be heading up yet again, last year I noticed there was a few Defenders about that looked like a good deal so took the opportunity to upgrade to a newer/ lower mileage 110 station wagon. Since lock down eased off though prices seem to be heading north at a pace again, it seems to be that the good older Defender models are being bought up by USA buyers and taken to the States which, if it continues, is likely over time to drive up the market going forward with a shrinking pool of good cars available.
My previous Defender was a 2009 110 station wagon with some nice upgrades that I used for three years, when I changed it last year I gave it to the Midlands based specialist I bought my newer one from to sell for me and it was gone in a week for more than i'd bought it for three years previously so it was effectively free motoring for three years, I'm hoping the new one will work out the same way when I come to change it in a few years.
My previous Defender was a 2009 110 station wagon with some nice upgrades that I used for three years, when I changed it last year I gave it to the Midlands based specialist I bought my newer one from to sell for me and it was gone in a week for more than i'd bought it for three years previously so it was effectively free motoring for three years, I'm hoping the new one will work out the same way when I come to change it in a few years.
irfan1712 said:
Im looking for a new project and have obsessed over a previous (pref 2008 onwards) Defender 110 wagon or pick up, and 130 pick ups lately. i've kept an eye on the classifieds for the last few months and i can't understand the market really..
there are bog standard 110s (Station wagons generally, pick ups seem to hold a premium?) for around £17-£20k. These seem to be pre 08 examples with usually well over 100k miles on them and in average condition. Better examples with slightly lower miles are found at third party dealers, which makes sense for circa £19k-£25k.
Then there are modified examples (Twisted/Urban/Chelsea tractor company etc etc) which are at the very least, £35k and extremely upwards. They all seem to be based on reasonably aged cars (circa 08-14) and have reasonable miles (circa 80k odd).
So basically from what i gather, modified Defenders are fetching more money - am i correct? This is of course assuming their mechanically sound and free of rust with a good history behind them etc. Seems the demand is either still strong, or is actually getting stronger. Probably from newbies like me who want a piece of the pie all of a sudden.
130's seem to be quite rare, but as an example https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007161... seems to be asking for £30k. I simply have little clue if a modified 130 like this is worth £30k.
Would you say that generally, The market for Defenders is appreciating? Nothing seems to be dropping in value and im questioning whether if i want one, is to buy one now before they start becoming even more ridiculously priced. I've read on earlier threads here from a few years ago that people predicted this was a bubble waiting to burst, but i beg to differ.
The Defender market reminds me of the VW Transporter market in a way. (Some) examples are old with high mileage, yet they hold their value incredibly well compared to anything else similar to it - and the aftermarket / modification market is simply massive.
Asking price and what people pay are not always the same thing.there are bog standard 110s (Station wagons generally, pick ups seem to hold a premium?) for around £17-£20k. These seem to be pre 08 examples with usually well over 100k miles on them and in average condition. Better examples with slightly lower miles are found at third party dealers, which makes sense for circa £19k-£25k.
Then there are modified examples (Twisted/Urban/Chelsea tractor company etc etc) which are at the very least, £35k and extremely upwards. They all seem to be based on reasonably aged cars (circa 08-14) and have reasonable miles (circa 80k odd).
So basically from what i gather, modified Defenders are fetching more money - am i correct? This is of course assuming their mechanically sound and free of rust with a good history behind them etc. Seems the demand is either still strong, or is actually getting stronger. Probably from newbies like me who want a piece of the pie all of a sudden.
130's seem to be quite rare, but as an example https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007161... seems to be asking for £30k. I simply have little clue if a modified 130 like this is worth £30k.
Would you say that generally, The market for Defenders is appreciating? Nothing seems to be dropping in value and im questioning whether if i want one, is to buy one now before they start becoming even more ridiculously priced. I've read on earlier threads here from a few years ago that people predicted this was a bubble waiting to burst, but i beg to differ.
The Defender market reminds me of the VW Transporter market in a way. (Some) examples are old with high mileage, yet they hold their value incredibly well compared to anything else similar to it - and the aftermarket / modification market is simply massive.
Edited by irfan1712 on Tuesday 25th August 15:03
Sadly the truly tasteless tat like the Chelsea trucks, seem to appeal to people with way more money than they should probably have. But this has the side effect of pushing up prices in general.
Ultimately, if you aren't going to use the vehicle either off road or as a utility wagon. You'd be much better off buying yourself a Discovery 1 or a classic Range Rover.
You wouldn't believe how similar they are under the body. And indeed share the vast majority of oily bits with the Defenders.... aka they drive and go in a very similar manner. With very much the same on and off road abilities.
The biggest difference with the Disco/RR is how the body is constructed and mounted. This gives them a much more refined interior with way better NVH........ You know the main things people complain about with Defenders. And things people spend a fortune trying to unsuccessfully solve.
The Defender body is made up of loads of panels that bolt together. These then bolt metal to metal on the chassis. It is this that causes the poorer NVH and less refinement. And the shape of the body in relation to the pedals and steering wheel give reduced elbow and leg room.
All of these issues are addressed and solved in a Disco1/RRC. And they are something you'll never solve on a Defender, even if you throw £50k in mods at one.
Which means, ultimately you paying the extra purely for the visuals and nothing more.
The only real benefit is residuals are indeed good on a Defender, so you shouldn't loose much. But the same is probably true on the RRC and D1 these days too, just much lower entry price points. For approx 95% the same thing.
300bhp/ton said:
irfan1712 said:
Im looking for a new project and have obsessed over a previous (pref 2008 onwards) Defender 110 wagon or pick up, and 130 pick ups lately. i've kept an eye on the classifieds for the last few months and i can't understand the market really..
there are bog standard 110s (Station wagons generally, pick ups seem to hold a premium?) for around £17-£20k. These seem to be pre 08 examples with usually well over 100k miles on them and in average condition. Better examples with slightly lower miles are found at third party dealers, which makes sense for circa £19k-£25k.
Then there are modified examples (Twisted/Urban/Chelsea tractor company etc etc) which are at the very least, £35k and extremely upwards. They all seem to be based on reasonably aged cars (circa 08-14) and have reasonable miles (circa 80k odd).
So basically from what i gather, modified Defenders are fetching more money - am i correct? This is of course assuming their mechanically sound and free of rust with a good history behind them etc. Seems the demand is either still strong, or is actually getting stronger. Probably from newbies like me who want a piece of the pie all of a sudden.
130's seem to be quite rare, but as an example https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007161... seems to be asking for £30k. I simply have little clue if a modified 130 like this is worth £30k.
Would you say that generally, The market for Defenders is appreciating? Nothing seems to be dropping in value and im questioning whether if i want one, is to buy one now before they start becoming even more ridiculously priced. I've read on earlier threads here from a few years ago that people predicted this was a bubble waiting to burst, but i beg to differ.
The Defender market reminds me of the VW Transporter market in a way. (Some) examples are old with high mileage, yet they hold their value incredibly well compared to anything else similar to it - and the aftermarket / modification market is simply massive.
Asking price and what people pay are not always the same thing.there are bog standard 110s (Station wagons generally, pick ups seem to hold a premium?) for around £17-£20k. These seem to be pre 08 examples with usually well over 100k miles on them and in average condition. Better examples with slightly lower miles are found at third party dealers, which makes sense for circa £19k-£25k.
Then there are modified examples (Twisted/Urban/Chelsea tractor company etc etc) which are at the very least, £35k and extremely upwards. They all seem to be based on reasonably aged cars (circa 08-14) and have reasonable miles (circa 80k odd).
So basically from what i gather, modified Defenders are fetching more money - am i correct? This is of course assuming their mechanically sound and free of rust with a good history behind them etc. Seems the demand is either still strong, or is actually getting stronger. Probably from newbies like me who want a piece of the pie all of a sudden.
130's seem to be quite rare, but as an example https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007161... seems to be asking for £30k. I simply have little clue if a modified 130 like this is worth £30k.
Would you say that generally, The market for Defenders is appreciating? Nothing seems to be dropping in value and im questioning whether if i want one, is to buy one now before they start becoming even more ridiculously priced. I've read on earlier threads here from a few years ago that people predicted this was a bubble waiting to burst, but i beg to differ.
The Defender market reminds me of the VW Transporter market in a way. (Some) examples are old with high mileage, yet they hold their value incredibly well compared to anything else similar to it - and the aftermarket / modification market is simply massive.
Edited by irfan1712 on Tuesday 25th August 15:03
Sadly the truly tasteless tat like the Chelsea trucks, seem to appeal to people with way more money than they should probably have. But this has the side effect of pushing up prices in general.
Ultimately, if you aren't going to use the vehicle either off road or as a utility wagon. You'd be much better off buying yourself a Discovery 1 or a classic Range Rover.
You wouldn't believe how similar they are under the body. And indeed share the vast majority of oily bits with the Defenders.... aka they drive and go in a very similar manner. With very much the same on and off road abilities.
The biggest difference with the Disco/RR is how the body is constructed and mounted. This gives them a much more refined interior with way better NVH........ You know the main things people complain about with Defenders. And things people spend a fortune trying to unsuccessfully solve.
The Defender body is made up of loads of panels that bolt together. These then bolt metal to metal on the chassis. It is this that causes the poorer NVH and less refinement. And the shape of the body in relation to the pedals and steering wheel give reduced elbow and leg room.
All of these issues are addressed and solved in a Disco1/RRC. And they are something you'll never solve on a Defender, even if you throw £50k in mods at one.
Which means, ultimately you paying the extra purely for the visuals and nothing more.
The only real benefit is residuals are indeed good on a Defender, so you shouldn't loose much. But the same is probably true on the RRC and D1 these days too, just much lower entry price points. For approx 95% the same thing.
Mining Subsidence Man said:
Get an old one. Put galv everything on it. Done.
Newer ones are disproportionately pricey for what they are IMO. Also, ignore the mileage. Just buy on how buggered it is (not rusty).
Buy one in perfect order and pay the mega premium or galv an old rusty slag up.
im happy with this mindset! From a bit of reading i've convinced myself i'd like a Puma at the very least, so anything from 07 onwards.Newer ones are disproportionately pricey for what they are IMO. Also, ignore the mileage. Just buy on how buggered it is (not rusty).
Buy one in perfect order and pay the mega premium or galv an old rusty slag up.
Quite happy to have an ex farmers sheep wagon as long as it isn't falling apart... i like a challenge as long as it doesn't require welding or serious chassis work!
Edited by irfan1712 on Wednesday 26th August 23:11
irfan1712 said:
Asking prices and selling prices are not the same thing you're right, but its quite clear the market is pretty strong.I can't see sellers, private or trade knocking thousands off an overpriced defender to sell it. Im aware of your points - but i'm in the market for a Defender, not an equivilent. A Disco does absolutely nothing for me and an RRC is just not what im after.
Well in answer to your question "are they worth it". No they aren't, not really. And this is from someone who is a huge fan of these vehicles.But rationally, no they are not worth the money being asked for many of them. Especially the ones you are citing.
The obvious logic here is. When things like the RRC and D1 were sold along side the Defender, using mostly the same components under the body. The Defender was significantly cheaper than either. Therefore, there is no logical reason why a Defender today, still using mostly the same bits should rationally be worth many times more.
I'm sorry the others don't appeal to you. No need to throw your toys out the pram over it. But also no point denying you are paying the full premium for the looks of the vehicle, not the capabilities or components.
Defenders are certainly not for everyone. With a few mods they can look very cool but some people would find it difficult coming out of a reasonably new car and into one that was designed in 1948.
I have a 2014 puma 110 with extensive mods and I think I'd struggle with a 'standard' truck if it was my daily. second vehicle it doesn't matter. Later model cars are easier to drive and quieter (but not quiet) compared to older defenders. Mine is tuned, uprated suspension, sound proofed etc which all makes a huge difference. I understand cars and have always had sports cars before and Defenders are like having a classic car. Ownership starts to turn you into a mechanic just to keep on top of it as there are always little jobs to do and you'll always be looking at upgrades.
I'd advise (if you've not already) to drive an affordable one and an expensive one (under and over your budget) so you can get an idea of the differences. I love mine and plan to keep it forever. The fact that the value is stable or increasing is a bonus. Also if you got fed up with it you shouldn't have a issue selling it and not lose money. Can't say that about many cars.
Cheers
Chris
I have a 2014 puma 110 with extensive mods and I think I'd struggle with a 'standard' truck if it was my daily. second vehicle it doesn't matter. Later model cars are easier to drive and quieter (but not quiet) compared to older defenders. Mine is tuned, uprated suspension, sound proofed etc which all makes a huge difference. I understand cars and have always had sports cars before and Defenders are like having a classic car. Ownership starts to turn you into a mechanic just to keep on top of it as there are always little jobs to do and you'll always be looking at upgrades.
I'd advise (if you've not already) to drive an affordable one and an expensive one (under and over your budget) so you can get an idea of the differences. I love mine and plan to keep it forever. The fact that the value is stable or increasing is a bonus. Also if you got fed up with it you shouldn't have a issue selling it and not lose money. Can't say that about many cars.
Cheers
Chris
Chris_S said:
....Defenders are like having a classic car. Ownership starts to turn you into a mechanic just to keep on top of it as there are always little jobs to do and you'll always be looking at upgrades....
Mine's a 1988 and I haven't stopped maintaining or tweaking since I bought it two years ago 
Chris_S said:
....I'd advise (if you've not already) to drive an affordable one and an expensive one (under and over your budget) so you can get an idea of the differences.
Buy one below budget and keep some back to customise it and make it 'yours'. One man's gopping Chelsea tractor is another man's perfect motor and vice versa.Oh yes, don't lift it unless you're really sure you need to, because of how you're using it.
Not meaning to hijack the thread but currently converting a 2004 90 . I’m looking for an svx soft top and good . Can anyone point in the right direction ? Ps I have just converted a 110 double cab into a spectre look a like any questions that you may have please let me know . Thanks again
Chris_S said:
Defenders are certainly not for everyone. With a few mods they can look very cool but some people would find it difficult coming out of a reasonably new car and into one that was designed in 1948.
I know JLR's marketing department has worked overtime in trying to get people to believe this non-sense. But the Defender wasn't remotely 'designed' in 1948!!!! eoinbenjimancox said:
Not meaning to hijack the thread but currently converting a 2004 90 . I’m looking for an svx soft top and good . Can anyone point in the right direction ? Ps I have just converted a 110 double cab into a spectre look a like any questions that you may have please let me know . Thanks again
Take a look on autotrader, 6 there. I have one but it’s a Totally genuine , 12 k miles and a keeper. 
300bhp/ton said:
When things like the RRC and D1 were sold along side the Defender, using mostly the same components under the body. The Defender was significantly cheaper than either. Therefore, there is no logical reason why a Defender today, still using mostly the same bits should rationally be worth many times more.
RRCs have become highly collectible/desirable and decent ones that are worth owning will easily outprice a Defender.As for Disco, even early D3s are now at the point in their lives where they are neither modern enough to be competitive nor old enough to be vintage. They’re very dated, and just don’t have the same kudos as a RRC or Def probably because they came to the party late and although now hugely successful they were always the poor man’s Range Rover or a rich man’s Defender, which is why an early Disco will never have as much appeal as either.
irfan1712 said:
Im looking for a new project and have obsessed over a previous (pref 2008 onwards) Defender 110 wagon or pick up, and 130 pick ups lately. i've kept an eye on the classifieds for the last few months and i can't understand the market really..
there are bog standard 110s (Station wagons generally, pick ups seem to hold a premium?) for around £17-£20k. These seem to be pre 08 examples with usually well over 100k miles on them and in average condition. Better examples with slightly lower miles are found at third party dealers, which makes sense for circa £19k-£25k.
Then there are modified examples (Twisted/Urban/Chelsea tractor company etc etc) which are at the very least, £35k and extremely upwards. They all seem to be based on reasonably aged cars (circa 08-14) and have reasonable miles (circa 80k odd).
So basically from what i gather, modified Defenders are fetching more money - am i correct? This is of course assuming their mechanically sound and free of rust with a good history behind them etc. Seems the demand is either still strong, or is actually getting stronger. Probably from newbies like me who want a piece of the pie all of a sudden.
130's seem to be quite rare, but as an example https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007161... seems to be asking for £30k. I simply have little clue if a modified 130 like this is worth £30k.
Would you say that generally, The market for Defenders is appreciating? Nothing seems to be dropping in value and im questioning whether if i want one, is to buy one now before they start becoming even more ridiculously priced. I've read on earlier threads here from a few years ago that people predicted this was a bubble waiting to burst, but i beg to differ.
The Defender market reminds me of the VW Transporter market in a way. (Some) examples are old with high mileage, yet they hold their value incredibly well compared to anything else similar to it - and the aftermarket / modification market is simply massive.
IMO it entirely depends on what you want to do in terms of "project". And then on how you want to use use it. If you intend to make some sort of long haul camping vehicle for long haul family jaunts - get an X5. Faster, quieter, more economical, probably cheaper to buy. If you want to go on expedition style camping holidays with just two of you and a roof tent, then a Defender is the perfect tool for the job. If you want it for tooling around locally, just get a sensible car. If you have a need for stupendous towing capability combined with a wipe clean interior that you can load the deer you've just shot in the back, Defender is all good.there are bog standard 110s (Station wagons generally, pick ups seem to hold a premium?) for around £17-£20k. These seem to be pre 08 examples with usually well over 100k miles on them and in average condition. Better examples with slightly lower miles are found at third party dealers, which makes sense for circa £19k-£25k.
Then there are modified examples (Twisted/Urban/Chelsea tractor company etc etc) which are at the very least, £35k and extremely upwards. They all seem to be based on reasonably aged cars (circa 08-14) and have reasonable miles (circa 80k odd).
So basically from what i gather, modified Defenders are fetching more money - am i correct? This is of course assuming their mechanically sound and free of rust with a good history behind them etc. Seems the demand is either still strong, or is actually getting stronger. Probably from newbies like me who want a piece of the pie all of a sudden.
130's seem to be quite rare, but as an example https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007161... seems to be asking for £30k. I simply have little clue if a modified 130 like this is worth £30k.
Would you say that generally, The market for Defenders is appreciating? Nothing seems to be dropping in value and im questioning whether if i want one, is to buy one now before they start becoming even more ridiculously priced. I've read on earlier threads here from a few years ago that people predicted this was a bubble waiting to burst, but i beg to differ.
The Defender market reminds me of the VW Transporter market in a way. (Some) examples are old with high mileage, yet they hold their value incredibly well compared to anything else similar to it - and the aftermarket / modification market is simply massive.
Edited by irfan1712 on Tuesday 25th August 15:03
Back to the project aspect. The "done" ones are stupidly expensive and IMO don't really adhere to the rules of Defender. £2k leather trimmed bucket seats are all very well, but you don't want to be thinking "I'm too dirty to drive my Defender" as you get into it. The other problem with the "done" ones is that they won't be done for you - there will be things missing like winches, power connectors which you really want to put in, but will ruin the expensive stuff you've just paid for.
IMO the mid market is interesting. You might get lucky, but then you also might well buy a pup that has the structural integrity of a colander
I bought an ex MOD Wolf at auction a few months ago. It is proper "bottom feeder" territory. Advertised as non-starting, transmission inoperable, you can't buy any Defender on eBay for as little as I paid for this beast. The engine was fixed with a new alternator (don't pay £450 for one, pay £70 for a truck one that fits perfectly), and a replacement set of injector pipes. The gearbox was fixed by buying a new gear lever. Total spend, £500, including a new timing kit. It now works, and is ready for an MOT (OK, I need to sort an outrigger, but I'm waiting for it to arrive). The "project" can start after the MOT. Allisport are going to be plundered, its going to get meth injection and lots of suspension sorting (no lift). I'm going to respray it (matt green, the army normally put it on with a brush, how hard can it be to do properly). I do a lot of towing, so it will have a purpose.
If that's the sort of project you like, get a cheap one. A cheap one (£3000) + a new galv chassis and bulkhead (£3000) is the basis for an utterly solid project for less than you'll pay for something with a MOT. Clearly a few weekends work involved as well. If by "project" you mean changing the headlight surrounds to shiny chrome, then get one that has been done already.
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