Fitting child seat to centre front seat in a Defender (90)?
Discussion
Evening all, I'm wondering if the LR experts that lurk within these walls could confirm something for me, please.
I am looking at a pre-2007 Defender 90 with two front seats and a centre armrest/cubby box. I need to be able to carry my other half and our 2.5 year old son, but don't want seats in the back as need the space back there.
So, couple of questions:
1. Is it easy to retrofit a middle seat in the front row, in lieu of the armrest/cubby box? Are all the mountings there to bolt one in (same mounting as the cubby box perhaps?), or is some drilling/welding required? I am looking at pre-2007 (i.e. pre-Puma) cars which were designed to have a front centre seat option.
2. If 'yes' to the above, can a 3-point seatbelt be fitted to the centre seat? I will need to strap our kids' seat into the centre position (don't really want him near the outside of the vehicle, they don't exactly have much side impact protection should the worse happen!). LR parts says "We recommend either a static lap belt or a 3 point inertia floor mounted belt." which suggests it can be, but I cant find any more info: https://www.lrparts.net/ext325-defender-front-cent...
3. And if 'yes' to 1 and 2, is it still possible for two adults to fit either side and to change gear with a child seat in place? I know they're not exactly capacious inside!
Finally, if anyone has any photos of a child seat fitted in the centre front seat of their Defender then please share!
Thanks in advance.
I am looking at a pre-2007 Defender 90 with two front seats and a centre armrest/cubby box. I need to be able to carry my other half and our 2.5 year old son, but don't want seats in the back as need the space back there.
So, couple of questions:
1. Is it easy to retrofit a middle seat in the front row, in lieu of the armrest/cubby box? Are all the mountings there to bolt one in (same mounting as the cubby box perhaps?), or is some drilling/welding required? I am looking at pre-2007 (i.e. pre-Puma) cars which were designed to have a front centre seat option.
2. If 'yes' to the above, can a 3-point seatbelt be fitted to the centre seat? I will need to strap our kids' seat into the centre position (don't really want him near the outside of the vehicle, they don't exactly have much side impact protection should the worse happen!). LR parts says "We recommend either a static lap belt or a 3 point inertia floor mounted belt." which suggests it can be, but I cant find any more info: https://www.lrparts.net/ext325-defender-front-cent...
3. And if 'yes' to 1 and 2, is it still possible for two adults to fit either side and to change gear with a child seat in place? I know they're not exactly capacious inside!
Finally, if anyone has any photos of a child seat fitted in the centre front seat of their Defender then please share!
Thanks in advance.
Forward facing in a 90 only came in with Puma and significantly reduces the rear seating/load space.
The rear tub is also a slightly different profile to accommodate the hinge mechanism of OEM forward facing seats.
Three point belts in a soft top are possible but would need sufficiently strong supports such as a roll cage, not simply the hood sticks that support the tilt.
The rear tub is also a slightly different profile to accommodate the hinge mechanism of OEM forward facing seats.
Three point belts in a soft top are possible but would need sufficiently strong supports such as a roll cage, not simply the hood sticks that support the tilt.
You have a few options.
1) refit the centre seat by removing cubby and you will then have to find a way to mount a three point belt to the centre seat. As far as I am aware there isn't anything off the shelf. Maybe the seat roll over bar and weld something to that. It will be quite tight in the front with a child seat in there.
2) Buy the fwd facing fold up seats and seat belt kit and retro fit that to the load back. They are about £850 new and even second hand they go for about £4-500. Worth going belts and braces on the mounts with extra spreader plates
3) Buy some mini bus seats of a certain width and some unwin rails to mount them to the tub floor. The minibus seats can have built in seat belts so no need to find somewhere to mount them. This could probably be done for about £200 all in.
Worth noting that if you do seat them in the back with the van sides still in place it really won't be very nice for them. They won't be able to see out the sides and you may find that will lead to boredom setting in quite quickly. Kids like to be able to see outside.
Lastly, buy something else
1) refit the centre seat by removing cubby and you will then have to find a way to mount a three point belt to the centre seat. As far as I am aware there isn't anything off the shelf. Maybe the seat roll over bar and weld something to that. It will be quite tight in the front with a child seat in there.
2) Buy the fwd facing fold up seats and seat belt kit and retro fit that to the load back. They are about £850 new and even second hand they go for about £4-500. Worth going belts and braces on the mounts with extra spreader plates
3) Buy some mini bus seats of a certain width and some unwin rails to mount them to the tub floor. The minibus seats can have built in seat belts so no need to find somewhere to mount them. This could probably be done for about £200 all in.
Worth noting that if you do seat them in the back with the van sides still in place it really won't be very nice for them. They won't be able to see out the sides and you may find that will lead to boredom setting in quite quickly. Kids like to be able to see outside.
Lastly, buy something else
bakerstreet said:
2) Buy the fwd facing fold up seats and seat belt kit and retro fit that to the load back. They are about £850 new and even second hand they go for about £4-500. Worth going belts and braces on the mounts with extra spreader plates
It’s not that simple. By a long way.The OEM forward facing rear seats that came in with Puma fit in to a totally redesigned rear tub, with chamfered wheel arch boxes (where the original Defender tub just had the bench-style boxes).
And the work to fit new seats to old Defenders involves more than just taking an angle grinder to the existing tub. The redesigned shape is also to accommodate the seat mounts which I believe are now on the chassis.
On top of that, the three point seatbelt arrangement requires strengthening of the rear outer corners of the upper body as previously this has been little more than an 2mm aluminium representation of the canvas tilt.
The final thing to bear in mind is that once opened out for use, forward facing rear seats pretty much block access from the rear door making said seats all but in useless. They’re the dumbest bit of design ever, a perfect example of how legislation killed Defender in the end.
Mike_C said:
don't really want him near the outside of the vehicle, they don't exactly have much side impact protection should the worse happen!
sufficiently concerned about safety not to want to use the original fitment seat and seat belt due to side impact crash protection, but looking to DIY a centre seat arrangement...bakerstreet said:
buy something else
^^ agreedCrossflow Kid said:
It’s not that simple. By a long way.
The OEM forward facing rear seats that came in with Puma fit in to a totally redesigned rear tub, with chamfered wheel arch boxes (where the original Defender tub just had the bench-style boxes).
And the work to fit new seats to old Defenders involves more than just taking an angle grinder to the existing tub. The redesigned shape is also to accommodate the seat mounts which I believe are now on the chassis.
On top of that, the three point seatbelt arrangement requires strengthening of the rear outer corners of the upper body as previously this has been little more than an 2mm aluminium representation of the canvas tilt.
The final thing to bear in mind is that once opened out for use, forward facing rear seats pretty much block access from the rear door making said seats all but in useless. They’re the dumbest bit of design ever, a perfect example of how legislation killed Defender in the end.
To be fair I didn't know they made structural and tub changes to accommodate those folding fwd facing seats. I had been looking at those for my Series, but looks like a lot of work to make them fit in a Defender let alone a Series. The OEM forward facing rear seats that came in with Puma fit in to a totally redesigned rear tub, with chamfered wheel arch boxes (where the original Defender tub just had the bench-style boxes).
And the work to fit new seats to old Defenders involves more than just taking an angle grinder to the existing tub. The redesigned shape is also to accommodate the seat mounts which I believe are now on the chassis.
On top of that, the three point seatbelt arrangement requires strengthening of the rear outer corners of the upper body as previously this has been little more than an 2mm aluminium representation of the canvas tilt.
The final thing to bear in mind is that once opened out for use, forward facing rear seats pretty much block access from the rear door making said seats all but in useless. They’re the dumbest bit of design ever, a perfect example of how legislation killed Defender in the end.
Mike_C said:
(don't really want him near the outside of the vehicle, they don't exactly have much side impact protection should the worse happen!). .
You know they have next to no roll over protection right? Let alone crumple zones and collapsible steering columns? They are heavily compromised vehicles. Discovery 4?
I’ve looked into this for years and decided to not bother.
I have a 110 commercial and with a centre seat, I borrowed one, with a child seat I struggled to change gear. Plus the gearstick is deceptively close and that didn’t seem that safe.
An adult in the centre was easier but again changing gear was a struggle.
I’ve looked at the proper seats but even folded up they would get in the way and become annoying. Plus I didn’t like the seatbelt arrangement.
I have 2 boys I want to take camping etc but am just doing one at a time with some quality time. It’s a shame and I’m not averse to them being in it even though it’s hardly ncap worthy but it has its limitations.
Enjoy you and the kid in the car, my boys love it and it’s a sure fire way to get them asleep.
Dave!
I have a 110 commercial and with a centre seat, I borrowed one, with a child seat I struggled to change gear. Plus the gearstick is deceptively close and that didn’t seem that safe.
An adult in the centre was easier but again changing gear was a struggle.
I’ve looked at the proper seats but even folded up they would get in the way and become annoying. Plus I didn’t like the seatbelt arrangement.
I have 2 boys I want to take camping etc but am just doing one at a time with some quality time. It’s a shame and I’m not averse to them being in it even though it’s hardly ncap worthy but it has its limitations.
Enjoy you and the kid in the car, my boys love it and it’s a sure fire way to get them asleep.
Dave!
I looked at this, and although I was prepared to take my lad out in a Defender despite the age of the design etc, I was not happy with any kind of "bodge" when it came to fitting a car seat. The simple answer was "buy something else", in this case a 110 station wagon with the second row of seats, which IMHO is a waaay more useful vehicle anyway.
Hard-Drive said:
I looked at this, and although I was prepared to take my lad out in a Defender despite the age of the design etc, I was not happy with any kind of "bodge" when it came to fitting a car seat. The simple answer was "buy something else", in this case a 110 station wagon with the second row of seats, which IMHO is a waaay more useful vehicle anyway.
....until it comes to tight corners or parking.Crossflow Kid said:
They don’t roll over if driven correctly, which means not driving them like a Ford hot hatch which is where a lot of people go wrong.
Crumple zones? It called “the other car”.
And on a marginally more serious note they do have a weak joint in the steering column.
Can you control other car users on the road then? Well done if you can. Maybe you can come and shadow me when I am cycling in central London (Post lock down) Crumple zones? It called “the other car”.
And on a marginally more serious note they do have a weak joint in the steering column.
Someone of your skills could make my ride much safer.
Crumple zones also absorb the impact of a crash. As for collapsible steering columns....My guess is they don't work in the same way the Saabs used to.
Defenders and series are pretty awful in a roll over or a side on. There is a pic floating about of a yellow series flatted after a roll over. Think he swerved to avoid (failed) a Calibre that pulled out on him.
Yeah, you can buy full on external cages, but they are pretty expensive and not everyone wants to drive round in a LR that looks like its heading off to the nearest challenge truck meet.
I'm a big LR fan, but I am under no illusion about how safe they are. Yes there are two six inch steel girders underneath you, but that is very far removed from modern cars.
bakerstreet said:
Can you control other car users on the road then? Well done if you can. Maybe you can come and shadow me when I am cycling in central London (Post lock down)
Someone of your skills could make my ride much safer.
No, I can’t control them. I mitigate for their actions and plan ahead.Someone of your skills could make my ride much safer.
Maybe you’re not as able to look ahead and plan for worst case? Probably too busy being facetious.
bakerstreet said:
Crumple zones also absorb the impact of a crash. As for collapsible steering columns....My guess is they don't work in the same way the Saabs used to.
You’re comparing a Land Rover to a Saab? 
Good one. Like for like, of course they’re not the same. Accept a little compromise and stop being an arse.bakerstreet said:
Defenders and series are pretty awful in a roll over or a side on. There is a pic floating about of a yellow series flatted after a roll over. Think he swerved to avoid (failed) a Calibre that pulled out on him.
Let’s see it then. Let’s see this photo of a Series that you “think” may have rolled by avoiding another car.And go and have a cup of tea. You sound very angry.
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