£6-8k Range Rover Classic - Mental?
Discussion
I've recently unearthed my old track prepped BMW 3 series ( thread), and ten years on from when it last saw daylight, have discovered that it's really not what I'm after in a car these days, and also it will take a fair investment to preserve it body wise and a fair chunk more to revert it to being a road car.
So it set me thinking about what I actually want from my silly car now. Don't need a car for work, don't commute, so just pottering around duties. "We" have a sensible frugal reliable estate for the things normal people do with cars.
I've had a P38 (ruinous) and a 3.2 Shogun (the best car I've ever owned), and I can't stop drifting back to adverts for late-ish RRCs.
There are a few kicking around for under £8k or thereabouts, including a soft dash that looks rather lovely (crusty tailgate notwithstanding). Logic is that I could spend what my BMW would end up costing, and have something that's much more The Thing.
They look decent from the luxury of the internet, but then so did my P38.
I know a "sorted" classic is north of twenty grand these days, but then so is a BMW 325i Sport the same age as my 325i and I know you can pick up a very nice 3 series for mid single figure thousands.
So, question to the floor, would buying a £6k Classic with the expectation of getting "something decent" lead to an enormous reality check?
So it set me thinking about what I actually want from my silly car now. Don't need a car for work, don't commute, so just pottering around duties. "We" have a sensible frugal reliable estate for the things normal people do with cars.
I've had a P38 (ruinous) and a 3.2 Shogun (the best car I've ever owned), and I can't stop drifting back to adverts for late-ish RRCs.
There are a few kicking around for under £8k or thereabouts, including a soft dash that looks rather lovely (crusty tailgate notwithstanding). Logic is that I could spend what my BMW would end up costing, and have something that's much more The Thing.
They look decent from the luxury of the internet, but then so did my P38.
I know a "sorted" classic is north of twenty grand these days, but then so is a BMW 325i Sport the same age as my 325i and I know you can pick up a very nice 3 series for mid single figure thousands.
So, question to the floor, would buying a £6k Classic with the expectation of getting "something decent" lead to an enormous reality check?
Speaking as a previous owner (and thus a seller) I would say that a £6k RRC is absolutely going to need work, probably considerable, in order to make it a going, regularly-useable concern. With these it's often what you can't see rather than what you can that turns out to be the killer. Have a read through the (long) RRC thread in, I think the Classic Cars section on here.
Whether they are worth it or not is another question but there's a reason there are so many RRCs for sale at much higher numbers than your budget, unfortunately.
The usual answer is "buy a Disco instead" but I absolutely appreciate that a Disco isn't an RRC. But a carefully-bought £6k D1 or D2 will be a much better proposition unless you want a rolling resto.
Whether they are worth it or not is another question but there's a reason there are so many RRCs for sale at much higher numbers than your budget, unfortunately.
The usual answer is "buy a Disco instead" but I absolutely appreciate that a Disco isn't an RRC. But a carefully-bought £6k D1 or D2 will be a much better proposition unless you want a rolling resto.
Can you really not buy an RRC for £6k these days that is usable?
The world is crazy. We have had loads of RR's over the years. Lovely vehicles, but no way are they 'worth' some of the crazy pricing.
Just had a look on ebay and there still seems some choice. They are simple vehicles, so I don't see why you couldn't get something.
But yes, totally stupid prices on some.
The world is crazy. We have had loads of RR's over the years. Lovely vehicles, but no way are they 'worth' some of the crazy pricing.
Just had a look on ebay and there still seems some choice. They are simple vehicles, so I don't see why you couldn't get something.
But yes, totally stupid prices on some.
CAPP0 said:
Yes - but with that logic they're also a V8 Defender!
Yes, certainly very similar. But much closer to a Discovery still.A 200 Series Discovery, i.e. 1989 until the 300 revision. Available with either a 5 speed manual (LT-77) or 4-speed auto (ZF) in either 200Tdi or V8 power. These use a Range Rover chassis, Range Rover doors, Range Rover windscreen, Range Rover door handles, Range Rover door mirrors, Range Rover axles, Range Rover suspension, Range Rover brakes, Range Rover steering, Range Rover side windows, Range Rover heater. Plus many other smaller parts.
The only major differences are the roof, rear body (inc rear side windows) and tailgate and the headlight/front grill assembly and bonnet.
Interior was in terms of dash, steering wheel, seats and door cards unique to the Discovery, although all has the same fittings as a Range Rover.
Mechanically the only real difference is the Discovery is fitted with the LT230 transfer box as per a Defender. Whereas most Range Rovers use the chain driven viscous coupled Borg Warner transfer box.
The Discovery was a very clever piece of re-engineering. An entirely "new" vehicle that is in the region of 90%+ the same as one you already built.
Thanks for the input.
This is the one that has got my interest the most.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
Looks OK, leather, soft dash, & mot history isn't a list of horrors. Crusty tailgate notwithstanding, it looks alright.
I'm happy to have something that needs careful maintenance, but I really can't be doing with spending thousands a year on just preserving it, essentially a constant restoration project.
This is the one that has got my interest the most.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
Looks OK, leather, soft dash, & mot history isn't a list of horrors. Crusty tailgate notwithstanding, it looks alright.
I'm happy to have something that needs careful maintenance, but I really can't be doing with spending thousands a year on just preserving it, essentially a constant restoration project.
agent006 said:
Thanks for the input.
This is the one that has got my interest the most.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
Looks OK, leather, soft dash, & mot history isn't a list of horrors. Crusty tailgate notwithstanding, it looks alright.
I'm happy to have something that needs careful maintenance, but I really can't be doing with spending thousands a year on just preserving it, essentially a constant restoration project.
Looks ok in the pictures. But only way to really tell is go and see it and drive it. Check the usual areas, such as crawl under and check for rust on the chassis.This is the one that has got my interest the most.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
Looks OK, leather, soft dash, & mot history isn't a list of horrors. Crusty tailgate notwithstanding, it looks alright.
I'm happy to have something that needs careful maintenance, but I really can't be doing with spending thousands a year on just preserving it, essentially a constant restoration project.
Expect the boot floor, sills and inner wings under the bonnet to potentially have some rust. All is generally quite easy to fix. But shouldn't be a major issue if it has been looked after.
Check the engine runs and sounds fine and that it changes gear smoothly. Some people can be funny about LPG, but if it seems to run fine I wouldn't be concerned at all.
Engine and gearbox bits are generally cheap and easy to fix still with a huge parts supply. I'd maybe expect a little driveline shunt selecting Drive or going drive to Reverse and back.
Check anything electrical works, although there isn't much and most is pretty simple. Leccy seats don't always work, but often the control switches get gummed up and just need cleaning and some vigourous wiggling.
Personally I prefer earlier interiors, I think each revision the interior got worse on the classic and the softdash has the cheapest feeling switchgear. But the pics it all looks fine.
Wouldn't surprise me if the aircon doesn't blow cold at this age. Probably needs gasing and may leak. But all pretty easy DIY things to look at wth plentiful parts supply.
Basically if it drives as good as it looks and there isn't anything obviously wrong with it. I can't see a problem myself.
I would happily spend £6-8k of my own money (if i had it!) on a Classic however, whilst that one certainly doesnt look too bad, I would personally give it a miss. The reason is simple - LPG conversion.
As a wise man once said to me, LPG conversions are nearly always the preserve of people who cannot really afford to put fuel in a Range Rover. Futhermore, if they can't afford to put fuel in it, there's a good chance they can't afford to do other things, like maintain it properly.
This was backed up when I bought my Classic, as all the LPG converted ones I went and looked at were utter sheds.
As a wise man once said to me, LPG conversions are nearly always the preserve of people who cannot really afford to put fuel in a Range Rover. Futhermore, if they can't afford to put fuel in it, there's a good chance they can't afford to do other things, like maintain it properly.
This was backed up when I bought my Classic, as all the LPG converted ones I went and looked at were utter sheds.
Deranged Rover said:
I would happily spend £6-8k of my own money (if i had it!) on a Classic however, whilst that one certainly doesnt look too bad, I would personally give it a miss. The reason is simple - LPG conversion.
As a wise man once said to me, LPG conversions are nearly always the preserve of people who cannot really afford to put fuel in a Range Rover. Futhermore, if they can't afford to put fuel in it, there's a good chance they can't afford to do other things, like maintain it properly.
This was backed up when I bought my Classic, as all the LPG converted ones I went and looked at were utter sheds.
I think I'd qualify that by looking at the conversion. I'd avoid those with huge tanks in the boot maybe but with tanks underneath it doesn't detract from the overall look. More crucially maybe that conversion isn't cheap; it wasn't done by someone who couldn't afford it but by someone prepared to pay a decent figure with a view to longer term gains.As a wise man once said to me, LPG conversions are nearly always the preserve of people who cannot really afford to put fuel in a Range Rover. Futhermore, if they can't afford to put fuel in it, there's a good chance they can't afford to do other things, like maintain it properly.
This was backed up when I bought my Classic, as all the LPG converted ones I went and looked at were utter sheds.
Mine did 120k on lpg and although I've run it on petrol since a full engine rebuild that is as much due to accessibility to someone who I feel could set it up properly on lpg rather than not wanting to. LPG is far less popular than it was it seems.
RRC aren't expensive to maintain until you get into bodywork...been there done that.
agent006 said:
Thanks for the input.
This is the one that has got my interest the most.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
Looks OK, leather, soft dash, & mot history isn't a list of horrors. Crusty tailgate notwithstanding, it looks alright.
Looks ok and you get an extra, uneeded classic badge on the lower tailgate; that's worth £50 on its own. Stereo isn't the original.This is the one that has got my interest the most.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
Looks OK, leather, soft dash, & mot history isn't a list of horrors. Crusty tailgate notwithstanding, it looks alright.
agent006 said:
I'm happy to have something that needs careful maintenance, but I really can't be doing with spending thousands a year on just preserving it, essentially a constant restoration project.
Hmm, they sort of all are unless its been completely rebuilt. At that level there will always be bodywork to do on top of the mechanicals, unless you don't use it in the rain or in the winter. This rather defeats the object.LPG doesn't worry me too much. Had it in my P38, and it's a bonus in terms of running cost. I see the point about skimping on cost, I guess it's the same as finding budget tyres on it, begs the question of what else they were too tight to do properly.
I might go and have a look at that one, just if only to find out what's wrong with it.
I might go and have a look at that one, just if only to find out what's wrong with it.
Some random thoughts:
I bought mine (Soft Dash LSE) for £3k - but I have spent quite a lot on it with a complete restoration of the chassis and all rusty bodywork - and a new engine (old one worked, new one is faster!) I would expect anything under £10k to need work now or soon...
this one
- last recorded changed ownership in May 2017 - at which point 9 previous owners.
- last 5 MOTs were a pass (2014 - 2018) however there are corrosion advisories, including rear member, NS front body, OS front body, OS rear body, front brake pipes - nothing to report though on the last MOT - either a friendlier tester, or items have been fixed...
- Tax has been out of date since February 2018 yet the car passed an MOT in September 2018 with no advisories but still has no tax / is not SORN
I would want to check that the corrosion has been fixed as it could suggest that a friendly MOT tester has made it easier to sell with a clean MOT.
If you want to know what issues affect Soft Dash models you can see a summary of MOT issues here:
http://www.softdash.net/mot
test results from 2,600+ tests - it won't surprise anyone to see that oil leak is the biggest issue! But in reality the majority of issues on these cars are not expensive issues. The biggest electrical issue tends to be the under-seat ECU if you have electric seats / memory seats where the battery leaks and kills the circuit - these can be rebuilt. Second issue is the air suspension, but it is usually damaged bags (c. £40 a corner) leaking air and causing the compressor to run continually and burn out...
A well maintained car is not expensive to run and they are addictive - you can do anything - they will cruise on motorways above the legal limit / carry 5 people in comfort anywhere, go across fields, tow 3.5 tonne etc. etc. - they are awesome...
If you buy it let me know and I will update the Soft Dash register...
I bought mine (Soft Dash LSE) for £3k - but I have spent quite a lot on it with a complete restoration of the chassis and all rusty bodywork - and a new engine (old one worked, new one is faster!) I would expect anything under £10k to need work now or soon...
this one
- last recorded changed ownership in May 2017 - at which point 9 previous owners.
- last 5 MOTs were a pass (2014 - 2018) however there are corrosion advisories, including rear member, NS front body, OS front body, OS rear body, front brake pipes - nothing to report though on the last MOT - either a friendlier tester, or items have been fixed...
- Tax has been out of date since February 2018 yet the car passed an MOT in September 2018 with no advisories but still has no tax / is not SORN
I would want to check that the corrosion has been fixed as it could suggest that a friendly MOT tester has made it easier to sell with a clean MOT.
If you want to know what issues affect Soft Dash models you can see a summary of MOT issues here:
http://www.softdash.net/mot
test results from 2,600+ tests - it won't surprise anyone to see that oil leak is the biggest issue! But in reality the majority of issues on these cars are not expensive issues. The biggest electrical issue tends to be the under-seat ECU if you have electric seats / memory seats where the battery leaks and kills the circuit - these can be rebuilt. Second issue is the air suspension, but it is usually damaged bags (c. £40 a corner) leaking air and causing the compressor to run continually and burn out...
A well maintained car is not expensive to run and they are addictive - you can do anything - they will cruise on motorways above the legal limit / carry 5 people in comfort anywhere, go across fields, tow 3.5 tonne etc. etc. - they are awesome...
If you buy it let me know and I will update the Soft Dash register...
I have a 91 RRC. It's a hard dash V8 SE and I had 5 years of doing only small amounts of welding to get it MOT'd each year. Eventually the patching got too much and it failed badly last year so I undertook a fairly signifcant amount of work including inner and outer sills, inner and outer rear arches, new boot floor and side panels and both front footwells cut out and sorted. With some fresh paint on the rear wings, this cost me about £4000 but i now have a structurally solid, decently tidy looking Range Rover. I paid £1300 and this is the first time i'd spent more than £3-400 in annual MOT repairs and servicing.
I reckon it's worth £5-6000 as it really needs a full respray and headlining etc. Interior is good and everything electrical works, including the seats and mirrors. 110,000 miles. I'm telling you this as I think there could be some decent cars within your budget but they will still need work. I'm pleased mine is now solid as I can tackle the rest over time. The green one looks pretty good and I bet it sounds lively with that exhaust!
It's a wafty old thing but keeps up with traffic just fine and is great as an occasional car.
I reckon it's worth £5-6000 as it really needs a full respray and headlining etc. Interior is good and everything electrical works, including the seats and mirrors. 110,000 miles. I'm telling you this as I think there could be some decent cars within your budget but they will still need work. I'm pleased mine is now solid as I can tackle the rest over time. The green one looks pretty good and I bet it sounds lively with that exhaust!
It's a wafty old thing but keeps up with traffic just fine and is great as an occasional car.
OP I did do exactly what you're thinking of! I bought a late soft dash model a couple of years back with 100k on the clock, for £5k.
It looked pretty good see (pic below) and drove well apart from a dodgy steering damper causing a scary wobble!
The car was in original condition & pretty unmolested apart from a conversion to coil suspension, almost perfect interior and tidy body work but underneath it was quite a different story. It's nothing unusual once you strip out the interior to find corrosion on bulkheads, sills, boot floors, footwells, inner arches etc. Many of which are difficult to see without starting to remove things which the seller might not be happy with you doing! There's nothing serious wrong with mine in terms of corrosion but there are plenty of small holes that cause leaks etc. I'm working my way through mine but I can imagine that sending it off to have the work done at a decent specialist would set me back £10k.
The gearbox went bang (which is unusual as they're pretty robust) so I had that rebuilt, got the transfer box done at the same time by Ashcroft and ended up rebuilding the engine whilst it was all out!
I'm probably another £5k in so far and that's with me doing a lot of work myself. Good new is I have a car that's possibly worth £15k now which I love, bad news is I'll probably spend another £10k on it over the next few years as I want a repaint it, re-instate the air suspension & refurbish the rest of the suspension & brakes.
Happy days! Do it, you'll love it but assume all the above!
It looked pretty good see (pic below) and drove well apart from a dodgy steering damper causing a scary wobble!
The car was in original condition & pretty unmolested apart from a conversion to coil suspension, almost perfect interior and tidy body work but underneath it was quite a different story. It's nothing unusual once you strip out the interior to find corrosion on bulkheads, sills, boot floors, footwells, inner arches etc. Many of which are difficult to see without starting to remove things which the seller might not be happy with you doing! There's nothing serious wrong with mine in terms of corrosion but there are plenty of small holes that cause leaks etc. I'm working my way through mine but I can imagine that sending it off to have the work done at a decent specialist would set me back £10k.
The gearbox went bang (which is unusual as they're pretty robust) so I had that rebuilt, got the transfer box done at the same time by Ashcroft and ended up rebuilding the engine whilst it was all out!
I'm probably another £5k in so far and that's with me doing a lot of work myself. Good new is I have a car that's possibly worth £15k now which I love, bad news is I'll probably spend another £10k on it over the next few years as I want a repaint it, re-instate the air suspension & refurbish the rest of the suspension & brakes.
Happy days! Do it, you'll love it but assume all the above!
I’ve recently bought a 1990 RRC that I’m hoping is a good useable car. I have (rather too many) other cars so it certainly isn’t a daily driver but will be used for pottering around and longer European trips. It’s high mileage - 192k - but has a rebuilt and cross bolted 4.6 by a renowned engine builder, rebuilt box, new updated suspension and discs and an SS exhaust. It’s structurally solid but has the odd patch on the sills, plus the inner arches have been replaced. It’s a little tatty (no rust in tailgate tho) but is absolutely solid as a rock and drives perfectly. I paid just over £2k for it and I’m delighted so far.
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