Defender advice
Discussion
What do you want to use it for? This will dictate what you buy
Yes, you can convert the van sides, but having spent quite a lot of time applying sound deadening to a series, I personally wouldn't bother. If you want a station wagon, then buy a station wagon.
TD5 is the one to go for IMO and be prepared to be surprised by how much they go for on the used market, especially considering their age.
Have you ever actually been in a Defender? They are pretty agricultural compared to modern cars and you could end up with a car that always needs something fixing.
As highlighted by other chassis and bulkhead rot are the big issues to look out for. Taking someone who knows Land Rovers is key.
Don't discount the Discovery 2 TD5 or V8. Very Very capable and much easier to live with.
Yes, you can convert the van sides, but having spent quite a lot of time applying sound deadening to a series, I personally wouldn't bother. If you want a station wagon, then buy a station wagon.
TD5 is the one to go for IMO and be prepared to be surprised by how much they go for on the used market, especially considering their age.
Have you ever actually been in a Defender? They are pretty agricultural compared to modern cars and you could end up with a car that always needs something fixing.
As highlighted by other chassis and bulkhead rot are the big issues to look out for. Taking someone who knows Land Rovers is key.
Don't discount the Discovery 2 TD5 or V8. Very Very capable and much easier to live with.
A few pointers may help you or put you off completely.
1984-1991 Land Rover 90 (Pre Defender) Basically the same as later vehicles, but with a choice of 2.3/2.5 litre 4 cyl petrol engines, 3.5 litre V8, 2.5 litre non turbo and turbo engines. Most slow and underpowered except V8, 2.5 TD quite good but completely overshadowed by later Tdi. Slightly better made than later versions with galvanised body cappings. Many completely rebuilt on galvanised chassis and if very lucky bulkhead and often fitted with Defender Tdi engines.
1991-1998 Defender 90 Vehicle now fitted with 2.5 Tdi engine (petrol and non turbo diesel engines also available for a while but very very rare) in 200Tdi and 300Tdi versions (very different from each other). Engine reliable and durable, gearbox and clutch components prone to failure although both should have been repaired with upgraded parts by now. Many also rebuilt and a good choice as they are a good old fashioned mechanical design with modern performance characteristics.
1998-2007 Defender 90 5 cylinder engine, very robust and durable but occasionally suffered from ECU faults, often due to poor earthing or other minor issues. Often very very rusty in the chassis by now, due to no factory rustproofing.
2007-2016 Defender 90 Now fitted with a 2.4 or later 2.2 Ford engine and six speed box. Also got a new dash to replace the British Leyland style earlier design. Nice to drive and relatively refined, but not noticeably more efficient and very expensive to buy.
All versions are a big theft risk, you need decent security even in rural areas. All versions are used as working vehicles and often got used very hard, or were neglected. Ex stockman Land Rovers rot horribly when driven through corrosive cows
t for example. Many tow very heavy trailers, which hammer the clutch and transmission. Suspension is complex with lots of bushes which wear and ruin the handling/are an MoT failure. All versions rust, the chassis and bulkhead (under the windscreen) are the main areas to look at.
Beware of tarted up Land Rovers, there are a lot of people selling rubbish, cheaply blown over for far too much money. I'd buy something original looking that looks cared for, they don't depreciate if looked after so a newer more expensive one might be a good bet. Alternatively lots of spanner handy owners buy a cheap mechanically sound rot box and rebuilt the parts onto a galvanised chassis and bulkhead for a long term runner.
Sorry about the wall of text and good luck OP!
1984-1991 Land Rover 90 (Pre Defender) Basically the same as later vehicles, but with a choice of 2.3/2.5 litre 4 cyl petrol engines, 3.5 litre V8, 2.5 litre non turbo and turbo engines. Most slow and underpowered except V8, 2.5 TD quite good but completely overshadowed by later Tdi. Slightly better made than later versions with galvanised body cappings. Many completely rebuilt on galvanised chassis and if very lucky bulkhead and often fitted with Defender Tdi engines.
1991-1998 Defender 90 Vehicle now fitted with 2.5 Tdi engine (petrol and non turbo diesel engines also available for a while but very very rare) in 200Tdi and 300Tdi versions (very different from each other). Engine reliable and durable, gearbox and clutch components prone to failure although both should have been repaired with upgraded parts by now. Many also rebuilt and a good choice as they are a good old fashioned mechanical design with modern performance characteristics.
1998-2007 Defender 90 5 cylinder engine, very robust and durable but occasionally suffered from ECU faults, often due to poor earthing or other minor issues. Often very very rusty in the chassis by now, due to no factory rustproofing.
2007-2016 Defender 90 Now fitted with a 2.4 or later 2.2 Ford engine and six speed box. Also got a new dash to replace the British Leyland style earlier design. Nice to drive and relatively refined, but not noticeably more efficient and very expensive to buy.
All versions are a big theft risk, you need decent security even in rural areas. All versions are used as working vehicles and often got used very hard, or were neglected. Ex stockman Land Rovers rot horribly when driven through corrosive cows
t for example. Many tow very heavy trailers, which hammer the clutch and transmission. Suspension is complex with lots of bushes which wear and ruin the handling/are an MoT failure. All versions rust, the chassis and bulkhead (under the windscreen) are the main areas to look at. Beware of tarted up Land Rovers, there are a lot of people selling rubbish, cheaply blown over for far too much money. I'd buy something original looking that looks cared for, they don't depreciate if looked after so a newer more expensive one might be a good bet. Alternatively lots of spanner handy owners buy a cheap mechanically sound rot box and rebuilt the parts onto a galvanised chassis and bulkhead for a long term runner.
Sorry about the wall of text and good luck OP!
We had a 2003 TD5 90 pick up for a few years. Bearing in mind it was a pick up/truck cab, although you got three seats, it was hopelessly impractical. You can't carry large loads in the cab, so if they go in the bed they either blow out or get wet. We had a metal canopy on ours, however still exposed to the elements. The metal canopy also rattled like hell and created huge blind spots.
As for driving, until warmed up, it's a slow beast. Even once warm, it's still slow, realistically cruising at 50 is all you'll want if you value your eardrums. Around town it's not bad, easy to place on the road thanks to the seating position and big square bonnet. Potholes aren't too much of a concern, given what it's designed for and the size of the tyres. However when it comes to parking, be very aware of the appalling turning circle, it makes even your average multi storey a bit of a challenge, you have to plan your approach angles into tight turns as not to end up stuck and needing to reverse and take a second bite.
As for reliability, ours decided one day to immobilise itself, luckily at home tucked out the way. The electrics/ECU/alarm module was to blame for that one. The PAS pump developed a leak which ended up needing a new pump. Other than that, it was faultless. In terms of running costs, you could almost visibly see the fuel gauge move. I think it averaged around 25mpg, which I suppose is to be expected from an aerodynamic brick.
We ended up selling because we didn't need it for the farm anymore, which was a shame in a way but it still lives on I believe. I'd have another in a heartbeat if it wasn't for two things, firstly the stupid price of the damn things and secondly the worthless scumbags who are constantly stealing them at the moment.
As for driving, until warmed up, it's a slow beast. Even once warm, it's still slow, realistically cruising at 50 is all you'll want if you value your eardrums. Around town it's not bad, easy to place on the road thanks to the seating position and big square bonnet. Potholes aren't too much of a concern, given what it's designed for and the size of the tyres. However when it comes to parking, be very aware of the appalling turning circle, it makes even your average multi storey a bit of a challenge, you have to plan your approach angles into tight turns as not to end up stuck and needing to reverse and take a second bite.
As for reliability, ours decided one day to immobilise itself, luckily at home tucked out the way. The electrics/ECU/alarm module was to blame for that one. The PAS pump developed a leak which ended up needing a new pump. Other than that, it was faultless. In terms of running costs, you could almost visibly see the fuel gauge move. I think it averaged around 25mpg, which I suppose is to be expected from an aerodynamic brick.
We ended up selling because we didn't need it for the farm anymore, which was a shame in a way but it still lives on I believe. I'd have another in a heartbeat if it wasn't for two things, firstly the stupid price of the damn things and secondly the worthless scumbags who are constantly stealing them at the moment.
I bought a 2002 Td5 for around 11k just before Xmas. The inside is (mostly) original (ie. worn, dirty, a bit broken) so we are doing a full interior refresh and will soundproof etc at the time.
Anyway, I knew enough to buy on condition but not much more. At the end of the day, many parts are (relatively speaking) buttons to replace.
It is agricultural, but brilliant fun to drive around town or the lanes (living outside a major centre). Wouldn't fancy an M25 journey in it though (at least until it's soundproofed).
Anyway, I knew enough to buy on condition but not much more. At the end of the day, many parts are (relatively speaking) buttons to replace.
It is agricultural, but brilliant fun to drive around town or the lanes (living outside a major centre). Wouldn't fancy an M25 journey in it though (at least until it's soundproofed).
All coil sprung Landrovers from 1983-2016 are priced on condition. Mileage is largely irrelevant. Don't assume a newer one will be in better condition, look for desirable things like a galvanised chassis.
The only model which attracts a premium is the newest 2007 on version which was an improvement in cab design, engine and 6 speed box.
Of the top of my head, 1-2k ropey shagged out rotbox 3-5k reasonable petrol or non tdi 90 110, rough Defender tdi or td5 6-10k reasonable tdi td5, 10-15k nice tdi or td5 fully restored 90 or 110, 15k plus early tdci defender.
Basically get the best one you can afford, they don't depreciate if you look after them.
The only model which attracts a premium is the newest 2007 on version which was an improvement in cab design, engine and 6 speed box.
Of the top of my head, 1-2k ropey shagged out rotbox 3-5k reasonable petrol or non tdi 90 110, rough Defender tdi or td5 6-10k reasonable tdi td5, 10-15k nice tdi or td5 fully restored 90 or 110, 15k plus early tdci defender.
Basically get the best one you can afford, they don't depreciate if you look after them.
Some good advice already on the diesel Defender 90s, but in terms of which is the best Defender 90 to buy and own I think an obvious one may have been missed, a 1998 50th Anniversary version.
This is a limited edition Defender 90 with a production of just over 1,000 worldwide, it's a V8 Automatic Station Wagon, 6 seats with A/C, alloys, roll cage, etc. prices are currently running in the range of £20-50K depending on history & condition, the ones that have recently come back to the UK from Japan seem to be the best value as they've lived in a warm climate so are usually in much better condition than UK versions and are often priced towards the bottom end of the above price range.
The 50ths drive better than any Diesel Defender (even the later Puma ones, which are the best of the diesels), the V8 EFI engine is reliable, as are the transmission and running gear. There's no need to worry about fuel and maintenance costs, the 50ths have been reliably going up in value by £3-5,000 per year over the last few years so appreciation of your 50ths value will cover fuel and maintenance bills.
This is a limited edition Defender 90 with a production of just over 1,000 worldwide, it's a V8 Automatic Station Wagon, 6 seats with A/C, alloys, roll cage, etc. prices are currently running in the range of £20-50K depending on history & condition, the ones that have recently come back to the UK from Japan seem to be the best value as they've lived in a warm climate so are usually in much better condition than UK versions and are often priced towards the bottom end of the above price range.
The 50ths drive better than any Diesel Defender (even the later Puma ones, which are the best of the diesels), the V8 EFI engine is reliable, as are the transmission and running gear. There's no need to worry about fuel and maintenance costs, the 50ths have been reliably going up in value by £3-5,000 per year over the last few years so appreciation of your 50ths value will cover fuel and maintenance bills.
Rob400n said:
I'm looking at either a 90 or a 110 but I'm still on the fence about what engine!! I've noticed there are plenty td5's but I've read about alot of problems and I'm leaning to more 300tdi but just unsure on how much to pay for a solid one as prices seem to be all over the place!
The TD5 is a good engine. There really isn’t much wrong with it. Not sure what you have been reading. Tdi’s are fine engines (I have two). But the TD5 is a much better engine. More powerful, more tuneable and much much more refined.
NAS90 said:
Some good advice already on the diesel Defender 90s, but in terms of which is the best Defender 90 to buy and own I think an obvious one may have been missed, a 1998 50th Anniversary version.
This is a limited edition Defender 90 with a production of just over 1,000 worldwide, it's a V8 Automatic Station Wagon, 6 seats with A/C, alloys, roll cage, etc. prices are currently running in the range of £20-50K depending on history & condition, the ones that have recently come back to the UK from Japan seem to be the best value as they've lived in a warm climate so are usually in much better condition than UK versions and are often priced towards the bottom end of the above price range.
The 50ths drive better than any Diesel Defender (even the later Puma ones, which are the best of the diesels), the V8 EFI engine is reliable, as are the transmission and running gear. There's no need to worry about fuel and maintenance costs, the 50ths have been reliably going up in value by £3-5,000 per year over the last few years so appreciation of your 50ths value will cover fuel and maintenance bills.
There’s also the South African BMW engined 2.8i’s if you prefer a manual. Faster and better fuel consumption than the V8’s too. Not the easiest to find though!This is a limited edition Defender 90 with a production of just over 1,000 worldwide, it's a V8 Automatic Station Wagon, 6 seats with A/C, alloys, roll cage, etc. prices are currently running in the range of £20-50K depending on history & condition, the ones that have recently come back to the UK from Japan seem to be the best value as they've lived in a warm climate so are usually in much better condition than UK versions and are often priced towards the bottom end of the above price range.
The 50ths drive better than any Diesel Defender (even the later Puma ones, which are the best of the diesels), the V8 EFI engine is reliable, as are the transmission and running gear. There's no need to worry about fuel and maintenance costs, the 50ths have been reliably going up in value by £3-5,000 per year over the last few years so appreciation of your 50ths value will cover fuel and maintenance bills.
300bhp/ton said:
The TD5 is a good engine. There really isn’t much wrong with it. Not sure what you have been reading.
Tdi’s are fine engines (I have two). But the TD5 is a much better engine. More powerful, more tuneable and much much more refined.
I've basically googled 300tdi or td5! I've looked into the 300tdi more and like the idea of being able to work on it myself, less requirement to take it to a garage. Already restoring motorbikes so was thinking the transition wouldnt be too bad. The electronics side, plus the plastic head dowels aswell as other issues just keep putting me off. I've not really looked into the TD5 that much, but when I have the mention of a 300tdi being better usually crops up somewhere. Tdi’s are fine engines (I have two). But the TD5 is a much better engine. More powerful, more tuneable and much much more refined.
If someone can convince me the td5 is better than ill go td5. However, either way im holding back on pulling the trigger until I'm 100% certain!
Rob400n said:
I've basically googled 300tdi or td5! I've looked into the 300tdi more and like the idea of being able to work on it myself, less requirement to take it to a garage. Already restoring motorbikes so was thinking the transition wouldnt be too bad. The electronics side, plus the plastic head dowels aswell as other issues just keep putting me off. I've not really looked into the TD5 that much, but when I have the mention of a 300tdi being better usually crops up somewhere.
If someone can convince me the td5 is better than ill go td5. However, either way im holding back on pulling the trigger until I'm 100% certain!
As said. I have two Tdi’s. Both 200Tdi’s although the 300 is 90% the same. I’ve had one of those too. If someone can convince me the td5 is better than ill go td5. However, either way im holding back on pulling the trigger until I'm 100% certain!
And yes you can work on them at home. But tbh there probably isn’t much you’ll need to do other than normal servicing. These are push OHV engines. With a mechanical injector pump.
The TD5 is a much more modern design. But on the whole servicing is all you are likely to need to do. Which is no more difficult. It does have some sensors like a MAF and a crank sensor. But this would be the same as on a 1990’s Honda or a Vauxhall Cavalier. If you really want to home DIY you can get yourself a diagnostics device that plugs in the OBD port. Same as almost any car for the past 20 years or so. They are pretty affordable to get these days.
Oil in the wiring loom is a common issue with the TD5. But it’s an easy fix. Really it’s quite home DIY friendly still.
The bigger differences are. More power stock. And a simple remap will net you about 50% more power than a tuned Tdi. This means they go a lot better on the road.
And they are a lot quieter. For longer road journeys, especially at higher cruising speeds this will make a huge difference.
If you aren’t planning on big miles. Take a look at the V8’s. Stock the twin carb ones aren’t all that speedy. But still match the Tdi’s performance wise. And swapping in a 3.9 from a Range Rover is easy and cheapish.
Overall they are all good engines. And the best way is to drive some and see what you think. You’ll pay a premium as a rule to get a TD5 over a Tdi of the same condition.
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