Classic Range Rover
Discussion
Feel like I'm a bit late to the game on this (and probably going to pay through the nose because of it), but I'm looking to source a Soft Dash 3.9 Vogue SE SWB with leather. Been keeping an eye out on and off for the last 12 months but now getting to the point that I just need to narrow down my ideal spec and get the best I can afford with a bit of money left over to make some things right, before prices get out of my range.
Coming at this with no previous history with any other classic cars but decided that I'd like this to be my starting point, have a few friends who have all owned classic cars to blame for this - the positives look like they'll outweigh all the horror stories you hear about the classic RR's. Would love it to be a daily driver for a short commute (10 mile round trip) and good for weekends out to the country which happen regularly.
The other option is keeping my current daily driver and having this one stored with it maybe becoming a daily in the future.
Keeping an eye on all the usual sites: PH, eBay, car+classic, various dealers, and it just seems the prices are all over the place, so would love a bit of help of what things I need to look out for/whats worth it. Would like a 3.9 auto but have read various things about the 4.2 being more desirable, is it worth it? I know MPG is going to be awful in either. Soft dash is a bit of a must because of airbags. What top mileage should I set?
I'd like to spend about £10k with £5k set aside for any immediate works that are needed. I'm not expecting it to be perfect cosmetically and would rather have something that I can sort out gradually over time. Am I mad/out of my depth? Appreciate any help!
Coming at this with no previous history with any other classic cars but decided that I'd like this to be my starting point, have a few friends who have all owned classic cars to blame for this - the positives look like they'll outweigh all the horror stories you hear about the classic RR's. Would love it to be a daily driver for a short commute (10 mile round trip) and good for weekends out to the country which happen regularly.
The other option is keeping my current daily driver and having this one stored with it maybe becoming a daily in the future.
Keeping an eye on all the usual sites: PH, eBay, car+classic, various dealers, and it just seems the prices are all over the place, so would love a bit of help of what things I need to look out for/whats worth it. Would like a 3.9 auto but have read various things about the 4.2 being more desirable, is it worth it? I know MPG is going to be awful in either. Soft dash is a bit of a must because of airbags. What top mileage should I set?
I'd like to spend about £10k with £5k set aside for any immediate works that are needed. I'm not expecting it to be perfect cosmetically and would rather have something that I can sort out gradually over time. Am I mad/out of my depth? Appreciate any help!
Last factory RRC was 1995 so you are looking 20+ years.
There's quite a few threads on here that you need to read as they highlight the main issues.
Couple for starters:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=91...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=14...
RRC are mechanically simple - big boy's meccano kits - and not overly complicated electrically.
The main issue is rust, rust and more rust of ALL the underpanels. Many replacement panels are available but unless you can DIY & weld it can be very expensive.
If you don't know what you're looking at I'd advise taking someone with you that does.
Did I mention they rust?
There's quite a few threads on here that you need to read as they highlight the main issues.
Couple for starters:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=91...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=14...
RRC are mechanically simple - big boy's meccano kits - and not overly complicated electrically.
The main issue is rust, rust and more rust of ALL the underpanels. Many replacement panels are available but unless you can DIY & weld it can be very expensive.
If you don't know what you're looking at I'd advise taking someone with you that does.
Did I mention they rust?
An RRC is simple to inspect and maintain tbh. A Discovery 1 is 98% the same vehicle, just with some slightly different body panels.
So the question is, what are you actually wanting an RRC for? If it's as investment, then good luck. If it's for the looks, then that is fine. If it's just for a 4x4 to ride about in, then a D1 is a lot cheaper for essentially the same thing.
The 4.2 was only in the long wheel base models. Personally I think these don't look as good and really the only reason for one is for more rear passenger room. They were built to address this when being used as a limo.
IMO the soft dash was a backwards step and used a lot of facelift Disco 1 300 Series switch gear. The earlier dash layouts are much nicer to use and look at and make the cabin feel more airy inside.
All of the oily bits are pretty robust and best of all they are all easy to replace with good parts availability. The ZF box might need a rebuild at some point and the Rover V8 can wear the cam and follows resulting in lack luster performance.
It will leak oil, and likely let water in somewhere too.
Axles are essentially the same as those on a Disco 1 or a Defender.
Biggest issues are rust. The chassis is generally ok, but will want checking. It's the floor pan that rots the most as it is steel. Inner arches at the rear on the door shut. Boot floor, engine bay area. All can be repaired, but are generally most costly and fiddly than fixing the oily bits (engine/axle/gearbox etc.).
Upper rear tailgates rot and usually don't close or open correctly. Has always been an issue with them. But new ones are available.
Manual V8's are faster, more fun and return better mpg. But also a lot more rare. The best diesel was the 2.5 VM, quite a few LHD ones from the EU available as they sold them longer over there. The Tdi ones are slower and less refined.
Not much in the way of electrics, but obviously check them. Most should usually work ok, but switches can get sticky, especially on electric seats.
So the question is, what are you actually wanting an RRC for? If it's as investment, then good luck. If it's for the looks, then that is fine. If it's just for a 4x4 to ride about in, then a D1 is a lot cheaper for essentially the same thing.
The 4.2 was only in the long wheel base models. Personally I think these don't look as good and really the only reason for one is for more rear passenger room. They were built to address this when being used as a limo.
IMO the soft dash was a backwards step and used a lot of facelift Disco 1 300 Series switch gear. The earlier dash layouts are much nicer to use and look at and make the cabin feel more airy inside.
All of the oily bits are pretty robust and best of all they are all easy to replace with good parts availability. The ZF box might need a rebuild at some point and the Rover V8 can wear the cam and follows resulting in lack luster performance.
It will leak oil, and likely let water in somewhere too.
Axles are essentially the same as those on a Disco 1 or a Defender.
Biggest issues are rust. The chassis is generally ok, but will want checking. It's the floor pan that rots the most as it is steel. Inner arches at the rear on the door shut. Boot floor, engine bay area. All can be repaired, but are generally most costly and fiddly than fixing the oily bits (engine/axle/gearbox etc.).
Upper rear tailgates rot and usually don't close or open correctly. Has always been an issue with them. But new ones are available.
Manual V8's are faster, more fun and return better mpg. But also a lot more rare. The best diesel was the 2.5 VM, quite a few LHD ones from the EU available as they sold them longer over there. The Tdi ones are slower and less refined.
Not much in the way of electrics, but obviously check them. Most should usually work ok, but switches can get sticky, especially on electric seats.
dinfow said:
Feel like I'm a bit late to the game on this (and probably going to pay through the nose because of it), but I'm looking to source a Soft Dash 3.9 Vogue SE SWB with leather. Been keeping an eye out on and off for the last 12 months but now getting to the point that I just need to narrow down my ideal spec and get the best I can afford with a bit of money left over to make some things right, before prices get out of my range.
Coming at this with no previous history with any other classic cars but decided that I'd like this to be my starting point, have a few friends who have all owned classic cars to blame for this - the positives look like they'll outweigh all the horror stories you hear about the classic RR's. Would love it to be a daily driver for a short commute (10 mile round trip) and good for weekends out to the country which happen regularly.
The other option is keeping my current daily driver and having this one stored with it maybe becoming a daily in the future.
Keeping an eye on all the usual sites: PH, eBay, car+classic, various dealers, and it just seems the prices are all over the place, so would love a bit of help of what things I need to look out for/whats worth it. Would like a 3.9 auto but have read various things about the 4.2 being more desirable, is it worth it? I know MPG is going to be awful in either. Soft dash is a bit of a must because of airbags. What top mileage should I set?
I'd like to spend about £10k with £5k set aside for any immediate works that are needed. I'm not expecting it to be perfect cosmetically and would rather have something that I can sort out gradually over time. Am I mad/out of my depth? Appreciate any help!
That budget may well get you something - however, there are not very many left on the road...Coming at this with no previous history with any other classic cars but decided that I'd like this to be my starting point, have a few friends who have all owned classic cars to blame for this - the positives look like they'll outweigh all the horror stories you hear about the classic RR's. Would love it to be a daily driver for a short commute (10 mile round trip) and good for weekends out to the country which happen regularly.
The other option is keeping my current daily driver and having this one stored with it maybe becoming a daily in the future.
Keeping an eye on all the usual sites: PH, eBay, car+classic, various dealers, and it just seems the prices are all over the place, so would love a bit of help of what things I need to look out for/whats worth it. Would like a 3.9 auto but have read various things about the 4.2 being more desirable, is it worth it? I know MPG is going to be awful in either. Soft dash is a bit of a must because of airbags. What top mileage should I set?
I'd like to spend about £10k with £5k set aside for any immediate works that are needed. I'm not expecting it to be perfect cosmetically and would rather have something that I can sort out gradually over time. Am I mad/out of my depth? Appreciate any help!
current figures I have on www.softdash.net is 23 LWB / 33 SWB
LWB (LSE) is alway originally a 4.2 v8 petrol and top leather spec. etc.
SWB could be diesel / petrol and spec. varies from cloth to leather / manual to auto etc.
They don't come up for sale very often - but you can often find the same one / two on ebay or other sites (e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192739445378)
I have records of c. 200 cars / photos of many of them, so if you are looking, let me know and I may have info on a car...
The good cars are often selling privately and not being advertised
A fully restored Kingsley Cars type approach will now set you back upwards of £50k - there are instances of c. £90k being paid
A car in very good condition will I think now be in the £20k - £25k range
but there are a whole range of prices from a few thousands upwards
as mentioned above, rust is the biggest issue - engines are pretty good (though the 4.2 can go pop unless re-chipped), but rust, rust, rust is your issue... and the driver seat ecu - but that can be fixed... other than that most of the mechanicals are pretty simple...
I bought mine 2 years ago and have spent £10k+ on it since - however, that includes a new race engine being built & I have had the body off and the chassis fully restored... plus a certain amount of welding...
Another option could be to look at a p38a Range Rover. If you are only wanting a softdash, then the age/era is not so massively different.
The p38a shares the same 108" wheelbase as the LSE does and largely the same range of engines and gearboxes. All just a bit better than those used in the RRC. The diesel was a BMW sourced 6 cylinder though.
The p38a shares very few components directly with the RRC, it essentially is a clean sheet design (apart from the V8 and ZF boxes). But you end up with a vehicle that is still very similar to the RRC, but addresses pretty much all of the design issues with them.
The p38 can be had for sensible money at the moment, but prices do appear on the rise. It's also worth noting the p38 is the rarest of RR's, as they where only built for 7 years.
The p38a shares the same 108" wheelbase as the LSE does and largely the same range of engines and gearboxes. All just a bit better than those used in the RRC. The diesel was a BMW sourced 6 cylinder though.
The p38a shares very few components directly with the RRC, it essentially is a clean sheet design (apart from the V8 and ZF boxes). But you end up with a vehicle that is still very similar to the RRC, but addresses pretty much all of the design issues with them.
The p38 can be had for sensible money at the moment, but prices do appear on the rise. It's also worth noting the p38 is the rarest of RR's, as they where only built for 7 years.
More detail of later RRC & what was standard fitment.
http://www.range-rover-classic.com/Home/land-rover...
http://www.range-rover-classic.com/Home/land-rover...
I think finding one will be will be quite hard. As others have said, rust is the main issue for these cars. Don't be surprised if the car has had a gearbox rebuild as well (Manual)
Headlining droop and fail too, but like many parts you can buy decent aftermarket replacements.
You should consider owning old Land Rovers as more of a past time rather than a method of transport
I have a modern one and and old one and and the later has been a work in progress for about 6 years and counting. However, I'm hoping it will come out of hibernation in early Jan of this year
Headlining droop and fail too, but like many parts you can buy decent aftermarket replacements.
You should consider owning old Land Rovers as more of a past time rather than a method of transport
I have a modern one and and old one and and the later has been a work in progress for about 6 years and counting. However, I'm hoping it will come out of hibernation in early Jan of this yearbakerstreet said:
You should consider owning old Land Rovers as more of a past time rather than a method of transport I have a modern one and and old one and and the later has been a work in progress for about 6 years and counting. However, I'm hoping it will come out of hibernation in early Jan of this year
True, however my 1994 RR has been far more reliable than many new ones owned by friends... I have a modern one and and old one and and the later has been a work in progress for about 6 years and counting. However, I'm hoping it will come out of hibernation in early Jan of this year
akirk said:
True, however my 1994 RR has been far more reliable than many new ones owned by friends...
Yes, Land Rovers incompetence never ceases to amaze. One of the more recent issues did amuse me. New to market (at the time) RRS had issues with water leaking into the cabin. A car that leaks in 2013!!! My parts bill for restoring my series is also significantly less than the upkeep on my D3, which always seems to hover around a grand a year. Also, they seem to be able to completely ignore what the competition are doing. Merc and BMW both have hard single controls for audio/nav, but LR stick to a probably cheaper touch screen interface (Slow and laggy)
The HVAC controls is another thing. BMW and Merc both still have buttons and dials in place for all HVAC. Once again LR do their own thing and clain ease of use. Pity nearly every journo says its over complicated.
Sorry, rant over.
300bhp/ton said:
An RRC is simple to inspect and maintain tbh. A Discovery 1 is 98% the same vehicle, just with some slightly different body panels.
So the question is, what are you actually wanting an RRC for? If it's as investment, then good luck. If it's for the looks, then that is fine. If it's just for a 4x4 to ride about in, then a D1 is a lot cheaper for essentially the same thing.
It's a mixture of all 3, the RRC SWB is a beautiful car and proportionally just looks right. I was looking at Discovery 1's but they just don't do it for me looks wise. The same for P38's too. This is something I'd like to hold on to for the long term and maintain.So the question is, what are you actually wanting an RRC for? If it's as investment, then good luck. If it's for the looks, then that is fine. If it's just for a 4x4 to ride about in, then a D1 is a lot cheaper for essentially the same thing.
Great information on where the main spots to look out for rust body-wise, thank you.
May have to expand the search to non-soft dash !
Have seen this one before at just under £6k - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-Classic-3-9...
f:1
Other than the obvious rust issues that may lurk underneath, does the price seem right? Would leave me a lot of £ room to sort issues out
Also https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1990-Range-Rover-Classi...f:0 which looks like its had a lot of work done, is this worth £12k?!
And this listed at £5750 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-Classic-Vog... which has had recent work done to it, again who knows what the rust situation is
f:1Other than the obvious rust issues that may lurk underneath, does the price seem right? Would leave me a lot of £ room to sort issues out
Also https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1990-Range-Rover-Classi...
f:0 which looks like its had a lot of work done, is this worth £12k?!And this listed at £5750 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-Classic-Vog... which has had recent work done to it, again who knows what the rust situation is
C Lee Farquar said:
akirk said:
True, however my 1994 RR has been far more reliable than many new ones owned by friends...
Definitely, I stuck my softdash in a shed for 10 years, back on the road this year, minor work and a faultless trip to the Pyrenees. It's just a nice place to be. 
Are any of them worth it - very difficult to say - ultimately they are worth however you feel about them...
they are fantastic cars, I miss mine now that it is off road having work done to it...
they certainly won't be going down in price, so to a certain extent, you help form the market by the price you choose to pay...
dinfow said:
Have seen this one before at just under £6k - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-Classic-3-9...f:1
Other than the obvious rust issues that may lurk underneath, does the price seem right? Would leave me a lot of £ room to sort issues out
Also https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1990-Range-Rover-Classi...f:0 which looks like its had a lot of work done, is this worth £12k?!
And this listed at £5750 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-Classic-Vog... which has had recent work done to it, again who knows what the rust situation is
Depends what you are looking for & you will pay accordingly.f:1Other than the obvious rust issues that may lurk underneath, does the price seem right? Would leave me a lot of £ room to sort issues out
Also https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1990-Range-Rover-Classi...
f:0 which looks like its had a lot of work done, is this worth £12k?!And this listed at £5750 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-Classic-Vog... which has had recent work done to it, again who knows what the rust situation is
1. One in need of restoration.
2. One in decent condition which could be regarded as a 'daily drive'
3. One in immaculate condition needing no work.
As said, all RRC are 20+ years old & were built when LR didn't bother much with anti-corrosion underbody treatment so unless it's already been done or re-imported from a hot place you should expect there will be some bodywork & if you can't DIY then expect large bills.
paintman said:
As said, all RRC are 20+ years old & were built when LR didn't bother much with anti-corrosion underbody treatment so unless it's already been done or re-imported from a hot place you should expect there will be some bodywork & if you can't DIY then expect large bills.
As an example - my 94 LSE sat in a field for 8 years before the farmer wanted the field back, and the car found its way to my mechanic / to me...there was:
- some minor corrosion on the exterior (bubbling on a few door edges)
- a smallish hole in the lower tailgate section - now welded
- the top tailgate was like new (I suspect it was replaced at some point)
- peeling of paint (patina as it is known!)
- both footwells needing some welding - not major - so we are replacing them
- boot floor we are completely replacing (including side panels / underneath supports)
- rear cross-member needed replacing
- bulkhead is fine (good as otherwise expensive)
- chassis -almost immaculate - we have had the body off, had it shot-blasted and re-painted...
so, actually for a car from a field, and that generation of rr - in pretty good shape...
as for cost, I am totally useless at DIY, so my mechanics are doing the work - no idea of actual cost, but v. the cost of a newer car's depreciation, it is a tiny cost...
300bhp/ton said:
paintman said:
Depends what you are looking for & you will pay accordingly.
1. One in need of restoration.
2. One in decent condition which could be regarded as a 'daily drive'
3. One in immaculate condition needing no work.
Which one needs restoration?1. One in need of restoration.
2. One in decent condition which could be regarded as a 'daily drive'
3. One in immaculate condition needing no work.
That wasn't aimed at the condition of the OP's links in the order in which they're put but at how he needs to narrow his search.
My brother was after a Sunbeam Tiger in the early 80s & went to the Owner's Club.
He was asked what he was looking for - the same as I put above - & went for the best available.
What he bought was totally original, full history very low verified mileage & absolutely immaculate in every way.
So much so that when he bought it & told them he wasn't going to be entering it in their concours comps their view was that at last someone else would stand a chance of winning.
He kept it for a few years as very occasional use & sold it for what he'd paid for it.
My take on this, I've had a softdash LSE for several years.
It is, by far, the worst built car I've ever had. Softies in particular rust like mad, mine had almost no bulkhead left!
But the basics are easy enough, but not necessarily cheap, to fix.
Really if it hasn't been apart, or you don't have evidence, it will be rusty under there somewhere. Maybe be a little probably a lot.
But they are a nice drive and very capable. And you can get a SWB 4.2.
What you really want is a 6.3 chevy engined one.
Having said that mine now needs a new CHG one side. Oh joy.
It is, by far, the worst built car I've ever had. Softies in particular rust like mad, mine had almost no bulkhead left!
But the basics are easy enough, but not necessarily cheap, to fix.
Really if it hasn't been apart, or you don't have evidence, it will be rusty under there somewhere. Maybe be a little probably a lot.
But they are a nice drive and very capable. And you can get a SWB 4.2.
What you really want is a 6.3 chevy engined one.
Having said that mine now needs a new CHG one side. Oh joy.
akirk said:
bakerstreet said:
You should consider owning old Land Rovers as more of a past time rather than a method of transport I have a modern one and and old one and and the later has been a work in progress for about 6 years and counting. However, I'm hoping it will come out of hibernation in early Jan of this year
True, however my 1994 RR has been far more reliable than many new ones owned by friends... I have a modern one and and old one and and the later has been a work in progress for about 6 years and counting. However, I'm hoping it will come out of hibernation in early Jan of this yearIf you're after a soft-dash you've seriously reduced your options simply due to the numbers around. Personally, I'm not convinced they're worth hunting out any more than any other classic Rangie but if it's what you want etc etc. You're looking for something nearly a quarter of a century old and if it was me, I'd be tempted to go on condition rather than a specific variation.
ruhall said:
Hardly a ringing endorsement, though, is it
If you're after a soft-dash you've seriously reduced your options simply due to the numbers around. Personally, I'm not convinced they're worth hunting out any more than any other classic Rangie but if it's what you want etc etc. You're looking for something nearly a quarter of a century old and if it was me, I'd be tempted to go on condition rather than a specific variation.
Didn't realise how few soft dashes were still on the road, that changes things a bit. Think finding the best available condition in my budget will be the plan. There are a few soft dashes on Car&Classic at the moment that I need to look throughIf you're after a soft-dash you've seriously reduced your options simply due to the numbers around. Personally, I'm not convinced they're worth hunting out any more than any other classic Rangie but if it's what you want etc etc. You're looking for something nearly a quarter of a century old and if it was me, I'd be tempted to go on condition rather than a specific variation.
Any experience on how much it would be to remove an LPG conversion, there are a couple I've seen with these but I wouldn't use it
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