A fresh look at the P38?
Discussion
Bought one on a whim on eBay. Sight unseen until I went to pick it up.
Recipe for disaster ?
Not at all. Everything works. It’s got fresh airbags.
It’s a 4.6 V8 and the block has only 20k on it - the old one was porous so it has a nice new RPI unit.
The whole car cost me roughly the price of a big service on a new RR.
It is a lovely, classic , ageless and classless car. Driven it 600 miles already and not a single issue.
If it does go wrong the parts you need cost pennies on eBay and every town seems to have a independent spanner man who knows them.
I am struggling to see any downsides here.
Nice ones are getting scarce. Buy one and buy wisely and I think you’ll be fine.
Colour me impressed. I’m enjoying the old chap - 21 years old and driving great.
It’s time to take a look at these old things especially given that RR classics are getting expensive now. The P38 is a much better drive.
TS.
Recipe for disaster ?
Not at all. Everything works. It’s got fresh airbags.
It’s a 4.6 V8 and the block has only 20k on it - the old one was porous so it has a nice new RPI unit.
The whole car cost me roughly the price of a big service on a new RR.
It is a lovely, classic , ageless and classless car. Driven it 600 miles already and not a single issue.
If it does go wrong the parts you need cost pennies on eBay and every town seems to have a independent spanner man who knows them.
I am struggling to see any downsides here.
Nice ones are getting scarce. Buy one and buy wisely and I think you’ll be fine.
Colour me impressed. I’m enjoying the old chap - 21 years old and driving great.
It’s time to take a look at these old things especially given that RR classics are getting expensive now. The P38 is a much better drive.
TS.
There are perfectly good ones on the bay for 2-5k.
Be careful and a bit lucky and you’ll be good.
I’m used to old cars and new. Also have a prewar Alvis, a 1 yr old Grand Cherokee and a TVR wedge.
This old P38 is so good I really struggle to see the point of newer ones. Even if I won the lotto I would simply keep it. No envy from other drivers. Yet it wafts along with a burble from the V8.
Maybe I’ve been lucky. I know they CAN be troublesome. But new cars be troublesome too and the P38 is cheap to fix.
I’ve just replaced the track rod and it was a piece of cake. And the part was £30.
I’m going to enjoy tinkering with it over the winter. Heck I may even buy another one.
🙂
Be careful and a bit lucky and you’ll be good.
I’m used to old cars and new. Also have a prewar Alvis, a 1 yr old Grand Cherokee and a TVR wedge.
This old P38 is so good I really struggle to see the point of newer ones. Even if I won the lotto I would simply keep it. No envy from other drivers. Yet it wafts along with a burble from the V8.
Maybe I’ve been lucky. I know they CAN be troublesome. But new cars be troublesome too and the P38 is cheap to fix.
I’ve just replaced the track rod and it was a piece of cake. And the part was £30.
I’m going to enjoy tinkering with it over the winter. Heck I may even buy another one.
🙂
Buy on condition not age.
Air suspension and dodgy electrics are the main issues. All are pretty easy to diagnose and fix however. The web is packed with info and support.
Parts are plentiful and cheap.
4.6 is the one to go for. It is no thirstier than the 4.0.
Rust is not the same big issue it is on the previous RR classic but have a good poke around the chassis.
Some say the post 2000 models are better because they have Bosch electrics ( often referred to as Thor ) rather than Lucas ( GEMS). I don’t personally think it makes much difference and you should buy on condition.
The headlining inside sags. This is easily fixed - mine is starting to go and I’ve found a great guy who will come and put a new one in for 250. It will look new inside then as the leather is already lovely after I restored it.
Air suspension and dodgy electrics are the main issues. All are pretty easy to diagnose and fix however. The web is packed with info and support.
Parts are plentiful and cheap.
4.6 is the one to go for. It is no thirstier than the 4.0.
Rust is not the same big issue it is on the previous RR classic but have a good poke around the chassis.
Some say the post 2000 models are better because they have Bosch electrics ( often referred to as Thor ) rather than Lucas ( GEMS). I don’t personally think it makes much difference and you should buy on condition.
The headlining inside sags. This is easily fixed - mine is starting to go and I’ve found a great guy who will come and put a new one in for 250. It will look new inside then as the leather is already lovely after I restored it.
Engine and gearbox are pretty strong. Some had issues with liners and porous blocks but they were usually fixed inside the first few years of life. If the engines sounds good, pulls well and the gearbox works then I would not worry. A replacement gearbox is only £200.
Suspension Airbags are £220 new for 4. They aren’t that hard to fit. A local Indy Land Rover guy would know the job inside out.
Electrics can be a bit trickier. If all the warning lights are off then happy days. If you have an alert sign on the dash then the web can help. Some of the electrics can be fixed with a local Indy and a laptop ( such as the air suspension deciding to give up and needing a reset ). I did some research and realised that these problems aren’t as big as they are made out to be. And there are cars out there where many of the problems have been ironed out over the years. They are a bit like TVRs in this respect !
Suspension Airbags are £220 new for 4. They aren’t that hard to fit. A local Indy Land Rover guy would know the job inside out.
Electrics can be a bit trickier. If all the warning lights are off then happy days. If you have an alert sign on the dash then the web can help. Some of the electrics can be fixed with a local Indy and a laptop ( such as the air suspension deciding to give up and needing a reset ). I did some research and realised that these problems aren’t as big as they are made out to be. And there are cars out there where many of the problems have been ironed out over the years. They are a bit like TVRs in this respect !
To counter all this cheery positivity towards the P38 my ownership experience was the most wallet draning I have had. The only car where I have felt the need to keep a laptop + diagnostic cable in the boot because the thing went wrong so often.
Great when running mind you and good fun off road.
Great when running mind you and good fun off road.
I miss my P38, ran it for just under 2 years with no issues. Couple of holidays towing the caravan and plenty of work with heavy trailers. I bought cheap and spent a bit of cash doing the usual jobs then ran it alongside my classic. I had diagnostics which I carried but found I only ever used it on someone else car. I only sold the P38 has I didn't see the point in owning both a late classic and the P38.
plasticpig said:
To counter all this cheery positivity towards the P38 my ownership experience was the most wallet draning I have had. The only car where I have felt the need to keep a laptop + diagnostic cable in the boot because the thing went wrong so often.
Great when running mind you and good fun off road.
Thanks for the balance - can you flesh this out?Great when running mind you and good fun off road.
Is it the quality of parts or water ingress/general ageing of electrics/poor build?
I have in my mind they are still quite simple early 90s cars but laptop and cable perhaps suggests not quite that simple!
If its the odd £30-50 part then fair enough - if it is chase a problem via £1000 black box replacement (!), that is quite another!
DeepEnd said:
Thanks for the balance - can you flesh this out?
Is it the quality of parts or water ingress/general ageing of electrics/poor build?
I have in my mind they are still quite simple early 90s cars but laptop and cable perhaps suggests not quite that simple!
If its the odd £30-50 part then fair enough - if it is chase a problem via £1000 black box replacement (!), that is quite another!
I had lots gremlins. The reason for the laptop and cable is the air suspension system would fault every week or so and sometimes it failed multiple times in a week. You can buy the software and cable to reset and calibrate the EAS system off Ebay for around £25. Is it the quality of parts or water ingress/general ageing of electrics/poor build?
I have in my mind they are still quite simple early 90s cars but laptop and cable perhaps suggests not quite that simple!
If its the odd £30-50 part then fair enough - if it is chase a problem via £1000 black box replacement (!), that is quite another!
I had the BECM (The main ECU) fail twice. It got repaired the first time and replaced the second. Various expensive bits broke like the AC compressor.
I had a 4.6 Vogue for a while. Lovely car and I've said before, whilst they are a different animal to an L322 (which I've just sold after 7 happy years), they are, in a different way, easily on a par IMO.
Mine started throwing the "I won't shut down properly and I'll run the battery flat overnight" issue, which is quite common I believe, but it sent me off to the L322 dealer.
I changed a saggy airbag myself, it took all of 10 minutes.
I'd seriously consider another though. Bought carefully, they're an utter bargain.
Mine started throwing the "I won't shut down properly and I'll run the battery flat overnight" issue, which is quite common I believe, but it sent me off to the L322 dealer.
I changed a saggy airbag myself, it took all of 10 minutes.
I'd seriously consider another though. Bought carefully, they're an utter bargain.
The Bearmach Hawkeye diagnostic gadget is a wise thing to own. Costs £300 and it will diagnose and fix many of the electrical issues - most of which are often down to sensors playing up rather than hardware. Buy one of these and it will pay for itself pretty quickly.
It plugs into a port by your knee. Many of the things that used to cost a fortune at a dealer can be relatively easily fixed at home.
I think I may buy a second p38 as winter project. I am enjoying the tinkering aspect in the garage and there is nothing too daunting for the average spannerman.
It plugs into a port by your knee. Many of the things that used to cost a fortune at a dealer can be relatively easily fixed at home.
I think I may buy a second p38 as winter project. I am enjoying the tinkering aspect in the garage and there is nothing too daunting for the average spannerman.
DeepEnd said:
Thanks for the balance - can you flesh this out?
Is it the quality of parts or water ingress/general ageing of electrics/poor build?
I have in my mind they are still quite simple early 90s cars but laptop and cable perhaps suggests not quite that simple!
If its the odd £30-50 part then fair enough - if it is chase a problem via £1000 black box replacement (!), that is quite another!
A diagnostic gadget like the aforementioned Hawkeye can do away with the need for expensive dealer visits. Is it the quality of parts or water ingress/general ageing of electrics/poor build?
I have in my mind they are still quite simple early 90s cars but laptop and cable perhaps suggests not quite that simple!
If its the odd £30-50 part then fair enough - if it is chase a problem via £1000 black box replacement (!), that is quite another!
Even electrical bits like the central black box under the seat can be acquired quite cheaply now.
That’s not to downplay the issue of electrics - but frankly all modern cars these days have a bunch of ECUs and control units to go wrong. At least with the Landy it is possible to get the kit and be informed and even do some of it yourself if you want. And there is a mass of support on tinterweb.
DeepEnd said:
Thanks for the balance - can you flesh this out?
Is it the quality of parts or water ingress/general ageing of electrics/poor build?
I have in my mind they are still quite simple early 90s cars but laptop and cable perhaps suggests not quite that simple!
If its the odd £30-50 part then fair enough - if it is chase a problem via £1000 black box replacement (!), that is quite another!
A diagnostic gadget like the aforementioned Hawkeye can do away with the need for expensive dealer visits. Is it the quality of parts or water ingress/general ageing of electrics/poor build?
I have in my mind they are still quite simple early 90s cars but laptop and cable perhaps suggests not quite that simple!
If its the odd £30-50 part then fair enough - if it is chase a problem via £1000 black box replacement (!), that is quite another!
Even electrical bits like the central black box under the seat can be acquired quite cheaply now.
That’s not to downplay the issue of electrics - but frankly all modern cars these days have a bunch of ECUs and control units to go wrong. At least with the Landy it is possible to get the kit and be informed and even do some of it yourself if you want. And there is a mass of support on tinterweb.
Crumpet said:
I really like them and would happily have a green, V8 with cream interior.
They seem a bit like Porsche 996 911s though, no one really seems to want them for some reason.
Not really. 996s droped to £8k but that was quite a while ago and I don't think you can find one for anything under 10-11k now. The demand will always be more for a 911 even if it is a 996. I actually really like the 996. They seem a bit like Porsche 996 911s though, no one really seems to want them for some reason.
RRC Classics have been expensive for a while. I remember when you could pick one up for £1500. Think that is more like £3-4k now and thats if you can find a good one.
I think the P38 will eventually become a desirable classic, but it will only be the top end models (Westminster and AB).
bakerstreet said:
Not really. 996s droped to £8k but that was quite a while ago and I don't think you can find one for anything under 10-11k now. The demand will always be more for a 911 even if it is a 996. I actually really like the 996.
RRC Classics have been expensive for a while. I remember when you could pick one up for £1500. Think that is more like £3-4k now and thats if you can find a good one.
I think the P38 will eventually become a desirable classic, but it will only be the top end models (Westminster and AB).
RRC classics can be 10k for a good one now. Exceptional ones more. 5k buys you a tatty one. Less than 5k and they are broken for spares.RRC Classics have been expensive for a while. I remember when you could pick one up for £1500. Think that is more like £3-4k now and thats if you can find a good one.
I think the P38 will eventually become a desirable classic, but it will only be the top end models (Westminster and AB).
No reason to doubt the P38 will not go the same way.
Despite being a lifelong Range Rover nut, I have no time for the P38, for two main reasons:
(1) It replaced the Classic, so I can never forgive it for that.
(2) It still looks like the unholy offspring of a BMW estate, a Metrocab London taxi and a Talbot Horizon.
As to the unreliability, yes, I've no doubt they are. But as someone who coughed up £2000 on an engine/cooling system repair on an L322 and then sold it because I wasn't prepared to spend £3000 on the transmission barely a year later, I perhaps shouldn't cast aspersions.
(1) It replaced the Classic, so I can never forgive it for that.
(2) It still looks like the unholy offspring of a BMW estate, a Metrocab London taxi and a Talbot Horizon.
As to the unreliability, yes, I've no doubt they are. But as someone who coughed up £2000 on an engine/cooling system repair on an L322 and then sold it because I wasn't prepared to spend £3000 on the transmission barely a year later, I perhaps shouldn't cast aspersions.
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