Mad to look at Land Rovers?
Discussion
Hi all,
Bit of an odd question, but I keep looking at Land Rovers even though I have a fully functional 08 Mitsubishi Outlander after doing the LR experience day and seeing the merits of low ratio gearboxes and how much fun offroad driving is(I live in Cumbria and have heard there is greenlanes I can go on?). Am I mad to look at changing something which isboring reliable for a Land Rover which may or may not have some reliability issues?
I wouldn't be really considering a freelander, more something like a Defender/Discovery2 due to price, but I know they rust and have niggles and are thirsty but I still keep looking at them.
Am I mad/stupid?
Bit of an odd question, but I keep looking at Land Rovers even though I have a fully functional 08 Mitsubishi Outlander after doing the LR experience day and seeing the merits of low ratio gearboxes and how much fun offroad driving is(I live in Cumbria and have heard there is greenlanes I can go on?). Am I mad to look at changing something which is
I wouldn't be really considering a freelander, more something like a Defender/Discovery2 due to price, but I know they rust and have niggles and are thirsty but I still keep looking at them.
Am I mad/stupid?
Yes you are. 
Budget is a massive factor in this.
You buy an older Land Rover on condition, rather than mileage.
A defender is great off road and you don’t care about scratching the paintwork, or putting a dent in it.
However, they WILL force you to be a mechanic, even if you don’t want to be one. As they need tinkering etc to keep good. They are also awful on road.
A Disco is far far better on road, but can be damaged easier off road due to their size.
You may also think twice about sticking large scratches etc down it’s paint work.
If it’s a daily driver, get a Disco.
If it’s a weekend toy, get a defender.
Budget is a massive factor in this.
You buy an older Land Rover on condition, rather than mileage.
A defender is great off road and you don’t care about scratching the paintwork, or putting a dent in it.
However, they WILL force you to be a mechanic, even if you don’t want to be one. As they need tinkering etc to keep good. They are also awful on road.
A Disco is far far better on road, but can be damaged easier off road due to their size.
You may also think twice about sticking large scratches etc down it’s paint work.
If it’s a daily driver, get a Disco.
If it’s a weekend toy, get a defender.
A.J.M said:
Yes you are.
Budget is a massive factor in this.
You buy an older Land Rover on condition, rather than mileage.
A defender is great off road and you don’t care about scratching the paintwork, or putting a dent in it.
However, they WILL force you to be a mechanic, even if you don’t want to be one. As they need tinkering etc to keep good. They are also awful on road.
A Disco is far far better on road, but can be damaged easier off road due to their size.
You may also think twice about sticking large scratches etc down it’s paint work.
If it’s a daily driver, get a Disco.
If it’s a weekend toy, get a defender.
I do have another car to tinker with so suspected a Defender might not be the best idea (plus mid-20's mpg). Discovery 2's seem to be around what I would guess my current car would be worth as a p/x but I have no idea what a D2 is worth on average so seeing examples from £2k-£6k. I presume they all come with locking diffs, high/low and certain models come with cruise? Is the 300Tdi or TD5 the better engine?Budget is a massive factor in this.
You buy an older Land Rover on condition, rather than mileage.
A defender is great off road and you don’t care about scratching the paintwork, or putting a dent in it.
However, they WILL force you to be a mechanic, even if you don’t want to be one. As they need tinkering etc to keep good. They are also awful on road.
A Disco is far far better on road, but can be damaged easier off road due to their size.
You may also think twice about sticking large scratches etc down it’s paint work.
If it’s a daily driver, get a Disco.
If it’s a weekend toy, get a defender.
Might be worth reading on Wiki and other places for a general overview of the vehicles. i.e. what engines for what models etc etc and what years.
As for if they are a good idea or not.
Well older Land Rovers are actually pretty reliable and robust. It's just they are designed to require more regular maintenance. This doesn't make them unreliable. Being able to tinker at home will certainly be an advantage and save paying someone to do simple jobs. Although this could also be true for other makes of 4x4 also.
As for the right vehicle, budget plays a big part. Defenders are currently trendy fashion icons for the well off, and sadly are priced accordingly.
Discovery 1 and classic Range Rovers are essentially 90% the same as a Defender under the body with the same abilities. Although the bigger heavier body makes them more prone to damage off road and less nimble. The flip side is, they are also a lot more refined and comfortable inside.
P38 Range Rovers and Discovery 2's are still quite similar in many ways, but both use a lot more electronics. This potentially enhances their abilities in some situations, but can add an extra layer of complexity for the home mechanic, as you will want some form of plug-in diagnostics.
Other pros are parts. They are generally cheap and plentiful and with lots of choice from pattern to OEM. You can buy almost anything for them in-stock for next day delivery. Something not always true of other brands.
And on a similar note, they are hugely popular and available in the UK. This not only means lots of choice when buying, but no shortage of finding specialists should you need them. Almost every mechanic in the country has probably worked on a Land Rover of some description at some point.
Think about if you want to tow or haul stuff, how many people you are likely to want to carry and what sort of distance on road you are likely to be covering. As well as your intended off road use. A cheap RR or D2 might be cheap, but if it's tidy and shiny it can be mentally challenging taking it down a narrow scratching lane. Whereas a less than pristine Defender/Series costing twice as much might be far more straight forward to abuse without regret.
Diesels will do 22-28mpg average dipping into the low 30's for long economical runs.
Petrols will do 15-18mpg dipping into the low 20's for long economical runs.
However, this will be true for most other 4x4' brands also.
You may want to consider looking at Jeeps such as the XJ Cherokee or ZJ/WJ Grand Cherokee. Or a Wrangler.
Mitsubishi Shoguns are also quite capable, although 3rd Gen onwards are all independent suspension as opposed to live axles. Ok for laning and general off roading, but less suited to Pay & Play type of off road sites.
Suzuki Jimny is also worth considering if you only want a small vehicle. They are essentially the size of a Series 1 Land Rover, but with something akin to Defender suspension and ability. Quite frugal too. But they are small inside.
As for if they are a good idea or not.
Well older Land Rovers are actually pretty reliable and robust. It's just they are designed to require more regular maintenance. This doesn't make them unreliable. Being able to tinker at home will certainly be an advantage and save paying someone to do simple jobs. Although this could also be true for other makes of 4x4 also.
As for the right vehicle, budget plays a big part. Defenders are currently trendy fashion icons for the well off, and sadly are priced accordingly.
Discovery 1 and classic Range Rovers are essentially 90% the same as a Defender under the body with the same abilities. Although the bigger heavier body makes them more prone to damage off road and less nimble. The flip side is, they are also a lot more refined and comfortable inside.
P38 Range Rovers and Discovery 2's are still quite similar in many ways, but both use a lot more electronics. This potentially enhances their abilities in some situations, but can add an extra layer of complexity for the home mechanic, as you will want some form of plug-in diagnostics.
Other pros are parts. They are generally cheap and plentiful and with lots of choice from pattern to OEM. You can buy almost anything for them in-stock for next day delivery. Something not always true of other brands.
And on a similar note, they are hugely popular and available in the UK. This not only means lots of choice when buying, but no shortage of finding specialists should you need them. Almost every mechanic in the country has probably worked on a Land Rover of some description at some point.
Think about if you want to tow or haul stuff, how many people you are likely to want to carry and what sort of distance on road you are likely to be covering. As well as your intended off road use. A cheap RR or D2 might be cheap, but if it's tidy and shiny it can be mentally challenging taking it down a narrow scratching lane. Whereas a less than pristine Defender/Series costing twice as much might be far more straight forward to abuse without regret.
Diesels will do 22-28mpg average dipping into the low 30's for long economical runs.
Petrols will do 15-18mpg dipping into the low 20's for long economical runs.
However, this will be true for most other 4x4' brands also.
You may want to consider looking at Jeeps such as the XJ Cherokee or ZJ/WJ Grand Cherokee. Or a Wrangler.
Mitsubishi Shoguns are also quite capable, although 3rd Gen onwards are all independent suspension as opposed to live axles. Ok for laning and general off roading, but less suited to Pay & Play type of off road sites.
Suzuki Jimny is also worth considering if you only want a small vehicle. They are essentially the size of a Series 1 Land Rover, but with something akin to Defender suspension and ability. Quite frugal too. But they are small inside.
Thanks for the very detailed post 300!
The problem is, my current car is really boring, to the point it makes a kia rio seem exciting. I have always liked Land Rovers (Dad has had loads whilst I was growing up) and always remember them having character (that's not code for broken) and easy to fix.
I suspect it may be rose tinted glasses and the wanting of a low range gearbox after doing the experience day, however I keep looking at discovery 2's with the td5 engine. When saying they do 30's on a run, is that a long run of 100's of miles or can they do 30's at legal speeds on motorways and a-roads (my commute is 90% dual carriageway and motorway)...
The problem is, my current car is really boring, to the point it makes a kia rio seem exciting. I have always liked Land Rovers (Dad has had loads whilst I was growing up) and always remember them having character (that's not code for broken) and easy to fix.
I suspect it may be rose tinted glasses and the wanting of a low range gearbox after doing the experience day, however I keep looking at discovery 2's with the td5 engine. When saying they do 30's on a run, is that a long run of 100's of miles or can they do 30's at legal speeds on motorways and a-roads (my commute is 90% dual carriageway and motorway)...
The Td5 is a lovely motor, has a few foibles, but so do all engines.
Likewise the D2 is also very accomplished.
Things to watch for are rust on the chassis, sadly LR dropped the ball on this and many D2's suffer bad rust, usually around the chassis area near the fuel tank. It can be welded and fixed and if you are keen there even new galvanised chassis' available.
The D2 can also suffer from sagging headliners and leaky sunroofs. The Td5 is mostly ok, although oil in the wiring loom can prove to be an issue.
The D2 uses more electronics than the earlier D1. They have traction control, hill decent and ABS. These all rely on sensors and often show faults with dodgy sensors, which disable these systems. Known as the 3 Amigos. Usually it's not serious and fairly ok to fix.
Most D2's do not have a centre diff lock, early ones often had the diff lock in the transfer box, just missing the linkage to activate it. Latter ones the centre diff lock became optional on certain models. The middle ones have none of the bits.
The reason it's important to know this is, older LR's used the centre diff lock to make the front and rear propshafts rotate together, else you could end up with 1wd (understanding how diffs and AWD systems work will help here).
For the D2 LR relied heavily on the traction control system, hence no equipping them with operating centre diff locks. In practice this is fine for most green laning type use, but more technical off road situations or prolonged slippery conditions the TCS has to work over time and some to keep the vehicle going and often isn't as good as an older vehicle. LR eventually recognised this, by adding the diff lock to the late model D2's. With the centre diff lock and TCS they are more capable than older models like a D1, RRC or pre TCS Defender.
The problem, if you have the 3 amigos and no centre diff lock, they are useless off road. Just something to watch for when buying.
As for mpg. It really depends on the vehicle and use. My Uncle has two Td5 Disco 2's on the farm. One owned from new and both 100%. One is very very frugal and normal running about or a long run will normally result in over 600 miles to a tank, which is probably around 33mpg.
The other one feels far more peppy and lively, but for similar use never sees more than 26-28mpg.
Likewise the D2 is also very accomplished.
Things to watch for are rust on the chassis, sadly LR dropped the ball on this and many D2's suffer bad rust, usually around the chassis area near the fuel tank. It can be welded and fixed and if you are keen there even new galvanised chassis' available.
The D2 can also suffer from sagging headliners and leaky sunroofs. The Td5 is mostly ok, although oil in the wiring loom can prove to be an issue.
The D2 uses more electronics than the earlier D1. They have traction control, hill decent and ABS. These all rely on sensors and often show faults with dodgy sensors, which disable these systems. Known as the 3 Amigos. Usually it's not serious and fairly ok to fix.
Most D2's do not have a centre diff lock, early ones often had the diff lock in the transfer box, just missing the linkage to activate it. Latter ones the centre diff lock became optional on certain models. The middle ones have none of the bits.
The reason it's important to know this is, older LR's used the centre diff lock to make the front and rear propshafts rotate together, else you could end up with 1wd (understanding how diffs and AWD systems work will help here).
For the D2 LR relied heavily on the traction control system, hence no equipping them with operating centre diff locks. In practice this is fine for most green laning type use, but more technical off road situations or prolonged slippery conditions the TCS has to work over time and some to keep the vehicle going and often isn't as good as an older vehicle. LR eventually recognised this, by adding the diff lock to the late model D2's. With the centre diff lock and TCS they are more capable than older models like a D1, RRC or pre TCS Defender.
The problem, if you have the 3 amigos and no centre diff lock, they are useless off road. Just something to watch for when buying.
As for mpg. It really depends on the vehicle and use. My Uncle has two Td5 Disco 2's on the farm. One owned from new and both 100%. One is very very frugal and normal running about or a long run will normally result in over 600 miles to a tank, which is probably around 33mpg.
The other one feels far more peppy and lively, but for similar use never sees more than 26-28mpg.
Thanks for explaining it to a LR novice such as myself!
Am I right in thinking that looking at a Landmark model would potentially have the locking diff fitted as part of the landmark package? Something like this one: https://www.broadtower.co.uk/used-cars/land-rover-...
I may have to wait until next year now as I have seen prices creep up over the past month and people including "ready for winter" in their descriptions so its going to be hard to find something which is in budget and not a wreck/moneypit...
Am I right in thinking that looking at a Landmark model would potentially have the locking diff fitted as part of the landmark package? Something like this one: https://www.broadtower.co.uk/used-cars/land-rover-...
I may have to wait until next year now as I have seen prices creep up over the past month and people including "ready for winter" in their descriptions so its going to be hard to find something which is in budget and not a wreck/moneypit...
Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff