Another (Green-Oval themed) What Car
Discussion
Morning everyone.
A recent house move to nominal countryside and impending acquisition of a four-legged, floppy tongued and shaggy haired beast necessitates the purchase of a "sensible" car.
Whilst a boring diesel estate would do the job, nothing says luxury quite like owning something totally over the top for your actual requirements, so a 4x4 it is. As I have a deep-seated mistrust of anyone who owns a four wheel drive that isn't a Land Rover, it's going to come from Solihull.
Requirements; daily commuter for a 60 mile round trip. About 25 of those on a roads and about 3 miles into Manchester and other smaller roads. Current steed gets 30 emmmm peeeee geeee but costs a lot to rent, so I'd like to get 25, ideally in a modicum of comfort.
The last car I owned from Solihull was a 300tdi with peeling paint and broken central locking so I'm well aware of their personalities.
Question is, as an ownership proposition, where would your £10k go. I've already discounted the Freelander. It's potentially the most emasculating car since the micra cc disfigured our green and pleasant land.
A recent house move to nominal countryside and impending acquisition of a four-legged, floppy tongued and shaggy haired beast necessitates the purchase of a "sensible" car.
Whilst a boring diesel estate would do the job, nothing says luxury quite like owning something totally over the top for your actual requirements, so a 4x4 it is. As I have a deep-seated mistrust of anyone who owns a four wheel drive that isn't a Land Rover, it's going to come from Solihull.
Requirements; daily commuter for a 60 mile round trip. About 25 of those on a roads and about 3 miles into Manchester and other smaller roads. Current steed gets 30 emmmm peeeee geeee but costs a lot to rent, so I'd like to get 25, ideally in a modicum of comfort.
The last car I owned from Solihull was a 300tdi with peeling paint and broken central locking so I'm well aware of their personalities.
Question is, as an ownership proposition, where would your £10k go. I've already discounted the Freelander. It's potentially the most emasculating car since the micra cc disfigured our green and pleasant land.
I was being a tad facetious tbh. 
But logically, you say you have £10k. Land Rover only make so many models. You say you want luxury, and oddly you say you don't want a Freelander (even if it might be the ideal vehicle).
So no Defender... it's not luxury.
D4, L405 or current RRS out of budget.
I suspect a Range Rover Classic or Disco 1 may not be luxury enough and too old.
You may consider a p38a too old too, although it would seem to meet most of what you want.
Which really means:
D3
RRS
L322 Range Rover.
The D3 and RRS are pretty identical in many ways, they are largely the same vehicle, just with a different look. The D3 has a longer wheelbase and more practical body and can be had as a manual diesel. RRS less space inside, more upmarket appeal. Auto's only, more V8's and supercharged V8 option.
L322 Range Rover is different construction. Less sporty, but more upmarket again.
All are pretty equal, so pick based on visuals (which you like the look of the most) and if you want diesel or petrol power.
A Freelander 2 would probably suit quite well however and be cheaper to run than the above.
Almost forgot. The D2 is in budget as well. A good vehicle too. £10k is strong money to spend on one, so you have to decide if you want one, or want a newer model for your money.
As for Jeeps, they make some brilliant vehicles too. The Grand Cherokee would probably be the ones to look at. They sort of fit between a Disco3 and a L322 Range Rover, but smaller than either. But just as good.
But logically, you say you have £10k. Land Rover only make so many models. You say you want luxury, and oddly you say you don't want a Freelander (even if it might be the ideal vehicle).
So no Defender... it's not luxury.
D4, L405 or current RRS out of budget.
I suspect a Range Rover Classic or Disco 1 may not be luxury enough and too old.
You may consider a p38a too old too, although it would seem to meet most of what you want.
Which really means:
D3
RRS
L322 Range Rover.
The D3 and RRS are pretty identical in many ways, they are largely the same vehicle, just with a different look. The D3 has a longer wheelbase and more practical body and can be had as a manual diesel. RRS less space inside, more upmarket appeal. Auto's only, more V8's and supercharged V8 option.
L322 Range Rover is different construction. Less sporty, but more upmarket again.
All are pretty equal, so pick based on visuals (which you like the look of the most) and if you want diesel or petrol power.
A Freelander 2 would probably suit quite well however and be cheaper to run than the above.
Almost forgot. The D2 is in budget as well. A good vehicle too. £10k is strong money to spend on one, so you have to decide if you want one, or want a newer model for your money.
As for Jeeps, they make some brilliant vehicles too. The Grand Cherokee would probably be the ones to look at. They sort of fit between a Disco3 and a L322 Range Rover, but smaller than either. But just as good.
I have a 2006 L322, Jag engine, Vogue spec, and on a good day I'd like to think that would still fetch something approaching £10k (I've seen them for £7k, I've seen them for £14k). It would fit most of your requirements except the 25mpg. I guess the diesel might make 25, but the BMW diesel engine is not a terribly nice thing to sit behind and I don't know if you'd break into an early TDV8 for that money.
Notwithstanding 300's lengthy post above, I suspect that realistically you're looking at either a diesel L322 or a D3.
Notwithstanding 300's lengthy post above, I suspect that realistically you're looking at either a diesel L322 or a D3.
Yes 25mpg from a TDV6 isn't unreasonable. The 2.7's will do 23-27mpg depending how you drive them. Up into the low 30's on a run, and low 20's for an auto being driven hard or lots of town stop start.
Manual D3's will be more frugal, faster and more fun than the auto's.
Td6 L322's won't be as good on fuel and are slower. Auto only. They also tend to eat gearboxes. TDV8's might be beyond budget, slightly worse mpg than the TDV6 RRS/D3, but quite a lot more performance.
A TD4 Freelander 2 is likely to fit the bill better than the rest if I'm honest.
Manual D3's will be more frugal, faster and more fun than the auto's.
Td6 L322's won't be as good on fuel and are slower. Auto only. They also tend to eat gearboxes. TDV8's might be beyond budget, slightly worse mpg than the TDV6 RRS/D3, but quite a lot more performance.
A TD4 Freelander 2 is likely to fit the bill better than the rest if I'm honest.
I'd tend to agree with the writeup from 300bhp... Don't discount the Freelander, it's a fantastic car and VERY capable when the going gets tough.
What I'm not sure you've done is factor in servicing & fixing things. At your price range, you'll be looking at much older cars which are likely to need a bit of TLC.
If it was me, get yourself the nice car for tootling about and then get a shed for the daily commute.
M
What I'm not sure you've done is factor in servicing & fixing things. At your price range, you'll be looking at much older cars which are likely to need a bit of TLC.
If it was me, get yourself the nice car for tootling about and then get a shed for the daily commute.
M
camel_landy said:
I'd tend to agree with the writeup from 300bhp... Don't discount the Freelander, it's a fantastic car and VERY capable when the going gets tough.
What I'm not sure you've done is factor in servicing & fixing things. At your price range, you'll be looking at much older cars which are likely to need a bit of TLC.
If it was me, get yourself the nice car for tootling about and then get a shed for the daily commute.
M
I can't justify driving a freelander. No one ever looks happy when you drive one; They seem to be driven exclusively by hassled middle-aged dads and old men in flat caps. I'm sure they're very worthy cars but they don't have the he be said quoi of the other options.What I'm not sure you've done is factor in servicing & fixing things. At your price range, you'll be looking at much older cars which are likely to need a bit of TLC.
If it was me, get yourself the nice car for tootling about and then get a shed for the daily commute.
M
Ref servicing and fixing things, that was the reason for the carefully worded phrase "ownership proposition". If you had 10k to spend, which makes the most sense, assuming you'd be happy with any of them.
Oh, and not to sound snobbish or owt, but this will be my daily. Tootling is likely to be taken care of by something a little more focussed
Tom_Spotley_When said:
I can't justify driving a freelander.
It amazes me how people can justify opinions like this!!Sorry, I just can't relate to it at all. And I didn't really understand the rest of your post either. Seems to me you want what you consider "trendy" and "posh", in some vane attempt to care about what other people will think of you as you drive past.
Very odd.
300bhp/ton said:
It amazes me how people can justify opinions like this!!
Sorry, I just can't relate to it at all. And I didn't really understand the rest of your post either. Seems to me you want what you consider "trendy" and "posh", in some vane attempt to care about what other people will think of you as you drive past.
Very odd.
Not all decisions are empirical and black and white. The head, in this case, influences the heart, but the heart makes the decision.Sorry, I just can't relate to it at all. And I didn't really understand the rest of your post either. Seems to me you want what you consider "trendy" and "posh", in some vane attempt to care about what other people will think of you as you drive past.
Very odd.
I [i] like [\I] Discovery's. I like Range Rovers. I like Range Rover Sports. I don't like freelanders, so I'm not going to buy one. Is that an acceptable answer?
A tidy Jeep Commander would be in budget. Lots of vehicle for the money.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Grand Cherokee's too. Smaller than the Commander, but very nice.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
If it's Land Rover and 25mpg for £10k and luxury...
Then as posted before.
Tidy D2 Td5
D3 TDV6 manual/auto
RRS TDV6 auto
L322 Td6 auto
If LPG is an option or lower mpg, then the petrols are options. Else they aren't. And of course there are plenty of other non Land Rover vehicles too.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Grand Cherokee's too. Smaller than the Commander, but very nice.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
If it's Land Rover and 25mpg for £10k and luxury...
Then as posted before.
Tidy D2 Td5
D3 TDV6 manual/auto
RRS TDV6 auto
L322 Td6 auto
If LPG is an option or lower mpg, then the petrols are options. Else they aren't. And of course there are plenty of other non Land Rover vehicles too.
Like many above, but my own take, I'd say either the D3 (this will achieve the fuel economy you desire and is the best all-round LR for your money in terms of luxury / ability / economy) or the Jaguar-engined 4.4 V8 L322.
The latter are somewhat of a rare sight on our roads as the 4.2 SC sold due to the performance and the 3.6 TDV8 sold due to the significant urge over the Td6 and the economy. The poor little 4.4 sat in the middle and offered neither the SC's performance or the TDV8's economy.
But the 4.4 has it all going for it in terms of being a highly reliable and reasonably quick option. No EGR's or turbos to worry about and no significant reports of reliability issues to boot. And generally cheaper to buy, though significantly rarer, than the SC or TDV8. The latter reason would offset the economy disadvantage a little.
The latter are somewhat of a rare sight on our roads as the 4.2 SC sold due to the performance and the 3.6 TDV8 sold due to the significant urge over the Td6 and the economy. The poor little 4.4 sat in the middle and offered neither the SC's performance or the TDV8's economy.
But the 4.4 has it all going for it in terms of being a highly reliable and reasonably quick option. No EGR's or turbos to worry about and no significant reports of reliability issues to boot. And generally cheaper to buy, though significantly rarer, than the SC or TDV8. The latter reason would offset the economy disadvantage a little.
SimesJH said:
or the Jaguar-engined 4.4 V8 L322.
I've had mine for about 5 years now and I've put about 45k on it. I can honestly say that it's been very reliable indeed. The only real fault I can recall was a split front airbag one day, the poor thing was on it's knees as the back hadn't lowered! I decided to replace both sides with top-quality replacements which cost about £500 the pair.It's been used for short haul, long haul, posh jobs, scruffy jobs, tip runs, trips to the Alps, carting multiple dogs around, carting OAPs around, towing my D90 on a trailer when I bought it - you name it. I'm really racking my brains to think of other problems. A new battery? Consumable! A couple of broken plastic clips here and there, oh and a failed seal on the rear washer.
It also managed about 35k out of a set of Pirellis, without driving like Miss Daisy.
It's still absolutely an event to drive, every time. I've done 900 miles in a day and emerged with my back intact.
I do also feel much safer in it, whether that's justifiable or not. Actually, not long after I bought it someone ran a red light and clobbered me in the side quite hard. The car survived, it was repairable not a write-off, and I remain fairly convinced that had I been in a standard-sized car, I'd have been making the rest of my journey that day in an ambulance. Instead I emerged completely unscathed.
My indy who services it for me also concurs that the Jag engined 4.4 is a relatively rare beast, for the same reasons stated above. He gives mine a really thorough check every time he has it and it emerges with a clean bill of health.
The only actual issue I have with it is that I don't want to upgrade it to anything other than a newer one! I don't actually want to sell it; when that time comes I may just give it to MrsC who also loves it.
If you like dark green and cream.
My friend is selling a well looked after 02 L322 TD6 vogue.
Has rebuilt gearbox, new 20s with AT tyres, etc.
Looked after by a well recommended Edinburgh Indy and was bought through a RR forum.
Would be around 9 grand or so.
In reality. 60 miles a day is going to soon be expensive at the pumps. None of the choices will crack 30 mpg unless driven with a very light foot. My Disco3 has averaged for the last 50k. 23.4mpg. It's also cost a fortune in keeping it good as its aged and the wear and tear items have came up.
You will also need to keep a slush fund of a grand or so for whatever landy you go for as they can throw up big bills as they age and start to need attention.
Shame you don't like the FL2 as that's the most reliable, economical and underrated cars Land Rover have made in ages.
My friend is selling a well looked after 02 L322 TD6 vogue.
Has rebuilt gearbox, new 20s with AT tyres, etc.
Looked after by a well recommended Edinburgh Indy and was bought through a RR forum.
Would be around 9 grand or so.
In reality. 60 miles a day is going to soon be expensive at the pumps. None of the choices will crack 30 mpg unless driven with a very light foot. My Disco3 has averaged for the last 50k. 23.4mpg. It's also cost a fortune in keeping it good as its aged and the wear and tear items have came up.
You will also need to keep a slush fund of a grand or so for whatever landy you go for as they can throw up big bills as they age and start to need attention.
Shame you don't like the FL2 as that's the most reliable, economical and underrated cars Land Rover have made in ages.
Thanks for the input everyone; ultimately, whichever landrover I buy will cost me less than I pay out ATM, it depends which way you cut the cloth of cost, as ever.
There's roughly a, 10% increase in cost between 25 and 30mpg (so about £5 a week and £250/year) but that's accounted for by the lack of rent on my current daily.
Having owned a 300tdi in the past, I'm no stranger to interesting bills and I've pretty much built a £1,500 slush fund into running it each year.
After a bit more research, I'm thinking Disco 3 or a Range Rover - either should be well suited, I guess it's just which of the two I prefer.
Oh, 300. Thanks for the input - I actually sat in a Grand Cherokee at the New York Motorshow this year. In v8 trim, it's a very nice car. Not sure the older ones compare. Having said that, I expect to be told why I'm wrong.
There's roughly a, 10% increase in cost between 25 and 30mpg (so about £5 a week and £250/year) but that's accounted for by the lack of rent on my current daily.
Having owned a 300tdi in the past, I'm no stranger to interesting bills and I've pretty much built a £1,500 slush fund into running it each year.
After a bit more research, I'm thinking Disco 3 or a Range Rover - either should be well suited, I guess it's just which of the two I prefer.
Oh, 300. Thanks for the input - I actually sat in a Grand Cherokee at the New York Motorshow this year. In v8 trim, it's a very nice car. Not sure the older ones compare. Having said that, I expect to be told why I'm wrong.
Thanks for the input everyone; ultimately, whichever landrover I buy will cost me less than I pay out ATM, it depends which way you cut the cloth of cost, as ever.
There's roughly a, 10% increase in cost between 25 and 30mpg (so about £5 a week and £250/year) but that's accounted for by the lack of rent on my current daily.
Having owned a 300tdi in the past, I'm no stranger to interesting bills and I've pretty much built a £1,500 slush fund into running it each year.
After a bit more research, I'm thinking Disco 3 or a Range Rover - either should be well suited, I guess it's just which of the two I prefer.
Oh, 300. Thanks for the input - I actually sat in a Grand Cherokee at the New York Motorshow this year. In v8 trim, it's a very nice car. Not sure the older ones compare. Having said that, I expect to be told why I'm wrong.
There's roughly a, 10% increase in cost between 25 and 30mpg (so about £5 a week and £250/year) but that's accounted for by the lack of rent on my current daily.
Having owned a 300tdi in the past, I'm no stranger to interesting bills and I've pretty much built a £1,500 slush fund into running it each year.
After a bit more research, I'm thinking Disco 3 or a Range Rover - either should be well suited, I guess it's just which of the two I prefer.
Oh, 300. Thanks for the input - I actually sat in a Grand Cherokee at the New York Motorshow this year. In v8 trim, it's a very nice car. Not sure the older ones compare. Having said that, I expect to be told why I'm wrong.
RR is more posher, D3 is more usable for daily life.
I've driven both and for my needs and use i have a D3. It's an early HSE auto so very well specced and has a few extras from the options list thanks to the first owner. The joy of the D3 is that D4 and mk1 RRS bit's can be added.
Hence my Brembo's off a RRS. I've also got a 2012 RRS heated, flappy paddle steering wheel and D4 Bluetooth module ready to go on it.
If you go on Disco3.co.uk or similar. You will find decent cars for sale there.
My mate recently roped me in with buying a D3 that was local to me. 54 plate HSE auto, 133k on the clock. Silver with black leather. Lot's of the wear and tear bits changed with bills to show.
£8500 was the price. A lot of car for the money and when he sorts the few items i said to look for over the course of this year he will have a great car that will last many years.
I've driven both and for my needs and use i have a D3. It's an early HSE auto so very well specced and has a few extras from the options list thanks to the first owner. The joy of the D3 is that D4 and mk1 RRS bit's can be added.
Hence my Brembo's off a RRS. I've also got a 2012 RRS heated, flappy paddle steering wheel and D4 Bluetooth module ready to go on it.
If you go on Disco3.co.uk or similar. You will find decent cars for sale there.
My mate recently roped me in with buying a D3 that was local to me. 54 plate HSE auto, 133k on the clock. Silver with black leather. Lot's of the wear and tear bits changed with bills to show.
£8500 was the price. A lot of car for the money and when he sorts the few items i said to look for over the course of this year he will have a great car that will last many years.
Interestingly, my wife was talking about cars a few months back and so I did the same sort of thinking for her... Came to the conclusion that the number of 'probably going to break' bits on a D3 was more manageable than an L322.
Where my head ended up was a P38 looks nicer and can be had for so much cheaper you could buy a shagged one, afford to replace a significant quantity of the fragile bits and still have money left over. She then decided that she didn't want to change cars anyway.
Where my head ended up was a P38 looks nicer and can be had for so much cheaper you could buy a shagged one, afford to replace a significant quantity of the fragile bits and still have money left over. She then decided that she didn't want to change cars anyway.
Shirt587 said:
Interestingly, my wife was talking about cars a few months back and so I did the same sort of thinking for her... Came to the conclusion that the number of 'probably going to break' bits on a D3 was more manageable than an L322.
Where my head ended up was a P38 looks nicer and can be had for so much cheaper you could buy a shagged one, afford to replace a significant quantity of the fragile bits and still have money left over. She then decided that she didn't want to change cars anyway.
As an ex-P38 owner (and liker!) and sharing to some extent your thoughts on comparisons, be aware that some of the regular gremlins on the P38 are electronic and therefore not that easy to sort/swap/ Agree though that a sorted one is a lovely thing.Where my head ended up was a P38 looks nicer and can be had for so much cheaper you could buy a shagged one, afford to replace a significant quantity of the fragile bits and still have money left over. She then decided that she didn't want to change cars anyway.
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