Mini fast road/track suspension upgrades
Discussion
Hi all,
I've just bought myself another Mini after nearly 14 years! Had one as my first car and then had another one after that before it failed it's MOT miserably! Been thinking of getting another for ages and have finally gone and bought one!
It's going to be stripped out for light weight and used purely for enthusiastic weekend driving and I would like to do a few track days in it too and was wondering about the best suspension upgrades to make? I'm not too worried about ride comfort, but at the same time I don't want it to be jumping all over the road at the slightest bump on a country road. I wondered if anyone had any experience with the minitastic springs in either fast road or race or a good coil over conversion? If you have a coil over kit with a beam axle at the back, does this mean you ditch the rear subframe? I've seen that the mini migla race cars have a more conventional set up with rubber doughnuts and a rear anti roll bar so would this be the best route to go? I'm also planning on fitting adjustable bottom arms and tie rods and rear camber brackets so I gan have a good geometry set up.
It would be nice to hear about how people have got on with these different set ups as I'm really not sure which route to go down. Thanks for your help!
Noel.
I've just bought myself another Mini after nearly 14 years! Had one as my first car and then had another one after that before it failed it's MOT miserably! Been thinking of getting another for ages and have finally gone and bought one!
It's going to be stripped out for light weight and used purely for enthusiastic weekend driving and I would like to do a few track days in it too and was wondering about the best suspension upgrades to make? I'm not too worried about ride comfort, but at the same time I don't want it to be jumping all over the road at the slightest bump on a country road. I wondered if anyone had any experience with the minitastic springs in either fast road or race or a good coil over conversion? If you have a coil over kit with a beam axle at the back, does this mean you ditch the rear subframe? I've seen that the mini migla race cars have a more conventional set up with rubber doughnuts and a rear anti roll bar so would this be the best route to go? I'm also planning on fitting adjustable bottom arms and tie rods and rear camber brackets so I gan have a good geometry set up.
It would be nice to hear about how people have got on with these different set ups as I'm really not sure which route to go down. Thanks for your help!
Noel.
I have not tryed a lot of diffrent set ups but did get on well with: Up rated shocks, Hi lows to set hight, Rear Camber plated, 1.5deg front negative camber, Part solid part nylon front mounts for subframe. You can get beem rear set ups that replace the subframe but also Coil overs that work with a rear subframe. The Migler set up is restricted by the race regs but it dose work well (Been round Brands Hatch with a mix of other race cars and was very impressed).
you want to stick to using the frames and either rubber cones or the minitastic type coil sprinsg.
the cones are better as they offer progessive damping and are a very clever bit of kit
if you like messing, the springs are good, but take a lot of work to get to handle as well as a rubber coned car - with work it is possible but you need to use antiroll bars etc.
coilovers and beam axles are not really the thing you use on a road car - just thing of it this was, if you have a beam axle and get rammed, there will be no strength in the boot
the cones are better as they offer progessive damping and are a very clever bit of kit
if you like messing, the springs are good, but take a lot of work to get to handle as well as a rubber coned car - with work it is possible but you need to use antiroll bars etc.
coilovers and beam axles are not really the thing you use on a road car - just thing of it this was, if you have a beam axle and get rammed, there will be no strength in the boot
What is the car primarily going to be used for? Are you going to drive it to a track, track day it and then drive home? Will you go out for a hoon on local roads at the weekend?
Or are you going to trailer it to the circuits, or be prepared to have a no compromise track set-up whilst on public roads?
The requirements are very different.
If you detail what you require there are plenty on this forum that will be able to help.
NB** Mini's tend to only handle really well when the wheels are in contact with the road and so many people set up the cars far too stiffly. You mention Anti roll bars, intentionally used to reduce rear end grip to quell understeer, but you have to accept a trade off in wheel travel (hence the cocked rear wheel Se7en/Miglia stance).
Or are you going to trailer it to the circuits, or be prepared to have a no compromise track set-up whilst on public roads?
The requirements are very different.
If you detail what you require there are plenty on this forum that will be able to help.
NB** Mini's tend to only handle really well when the wheels are in contact with the road and so many people set up the cars far too stiffly. You mention Anti roll bars, intentionally used to reduce rear end grip to quell understeer, but you have to accept a trade off in wheel travel (hence the cocked rear wheel Se7en/Miglia stance).
Edited by FWDRacer on Wednesday 20th April 15:27
on my white car i actually use the antirolls bars in a different way, it runs the minitastic springs, but these need the shocks turned up full hard to help control the lack of progression in the spring - this gave it an unaceptably hard ride, so i fitted anti roll bars to allow me to soften the shocks right down - the roll bars allow this as they, in effect, double the rate of the shocks.
it rides great now, on normal roads its the best (smoothest) mini ive ever had.
it turns in great, but to be honest i dont drive it fast enough or hard enough to decide if it will encounter lift of oversteer or will drift if push hard enough.
it rides great now, on normal roads its the best (smoothest) mini ive ever had.
it turns in great, but to be honest i dont drive it fast enough or hard enough to decide if it will encounter lift of oversteer or will drift if push hard enough.
Interesting info so far chaps.
Im thinking of this kit http://www.minisport.com/mini-spare-parts/info_SUS... to fit to my van...
Im thinking of this kit http://www.minisport.com/mini-spare-parts/info_SUS... to fit to my van...
Looked at Kit - seems pretty good. Again I'd echo comment on retaining rubber doughnuts and rear subframe.
1 x set of Adjustable on-car shock absorbers... (Best raod shocks I've used - Koni's - but a pain to keep taking on/off)
1 x Mini Hilos
1 x Set Adjustable Tie Rods
1 x 1.5° Fixed Negative Camber Bottom Arms
1 x set of 4 poly bottom arm bushes
1 x set of 4 poly tie rod bushes
In addition I'd add a set of Alloy top and front suspension (keep rears unless you love, and I mean really love road noise). Rear Camber brackets you can modify standard. The cheap stuff doesn't work or retain geometry and the KAD stuff is overkill for road use. Unless you want pub bragging rights.
Make sure all knuckles/swivels are in good condition. Balls haven't punched through top arm cups etc.
Set-up
1.5° Neg Cmaber front - 10 mins tow out
Correct Castor to factory (Haynes settings) 4-4.5°. Increasing caster will increase steering weight and self centering.
0.75° Neg on rear - 10 mins tow in (set parallel if you like a lively rear end
)
Ride height is dependent on local road conditions and wheel diameter choice amnd if you've had the rear arches tubed. Rear Anti-roll bars are for the very committed on the road.
These settings should be a good guideline for fast road - but adjust to taste is the key.
1 x set of Adjustable on-car shock absorbers... (Best raod shocks I've used - Koni's - but a pain to keep taking on/off)
1 x Mini Hilos
1 x Set Adjustable Tie Rods
1 x 1.5° Fixed Negative Camber Bottom Arms
1 x set of 4 poly bottom arm bushes
1 x set of 4 poly tie rod bushes
In addition I'd add a set of Alloy top and front suspension (keep rears unless you love, and I mean really love road noise). Rear Camber brackets you can modify standard. The cheap stuff doesn't work or retain geometry and the KAD stuff is overkill for road use. Unless you want pub bragging rights.
Make sure all knuckles/swivels are in good condition. Balls haven't punched through top arm cups etc.
Set-up
1.5° Neg Cmaber front - 10 mins tow out
Correct Castor to factory (Haynes settings) 4-4.5°. Increasing caster will increase steering weight and self centering.
0.75° Neg on rear - 10 mins tow in (set parallel if you like a lively rear end
)Ride height is dependent on local road conditions and wheel diameter choice amnd if you've had the rear arches tubed. Rear Anti-roll bars are for the very committed on the road.
These settings should be a good guideline for fast road - but adjust to taste is the key.
guru_1071 said:
on my white car i actually use the antirolls bars in a different way, it runs the minitastic springs, but these need the shocks turned up full hard to help control the lack of progression in the spring - this gave it an unaceptably hard ride, so i fitted anti roll bars to allow me to soften the shocks right down - the roll bars allow this as they, in effect, double the rate of the shocks.
it rides great now, on normal roads its the best (smoothest) mini ive ever had.
it turns in great, but to be honest i dont drive it fast enough or hard enough to decide if it will encounter lift of oversteer or will drift if push hard enough.
Spooky, I have a very similar setup (Moss springs instead) and found exactly the same problem!. I run just a rear anti-roll bar though and run the shocks quite soft. The front shocks are run quite hard but I run a sensible ride height so there is still travel left in the suspension before the bump stops.it rides great now, on normal roads its the best (smoothest) mini ive ever had.
it turns in great, but to be honest i dont drive it fast enough or hard enough to decide if it will encounter lift of oversteer or will drift if push hard enough.
The other great benefit of running springs is an acurate ride height can be achieved using Hi-los, with no sag that rubbers cones can suffer over time.
rufusruffcutt said:
I run a sensible ride height
thats my problem, i dont!!!the best thing i did was to mod the rears and fit a little helper spring in so that they dont fall out when its jacked up!
for a while i only ran the rear arb, but as i had a kad front one kicking around i fitted that as well, it allowed me to soften the front a little more,
even set up as it is its rare that it clatters any of the bumpstops
Great stuff, some interesting opinions there! Thanks for the geometry settings by the way, thats useful information! I will be driving the car on the road as well, but mainly for a blast around on a sunday afternoon so it's a slight compromise between a road and track set up. I quite like the idea of the rubber cones as that's what's supposed to be there! I've seen mini sport do some competition uprated ones, so maybe a set of them, with some good adjustable shocks, Hi Lo's and the geometry sorted and i think we might be there! With the shocks, is it a case of the more you spend the better you get?
spaceibizadance said:
With the shocks, is it a case of the more you spend the better you get?
Yes and no everyone on here will have their own opinion.Personally speaking i've had loads of problems with Gaz shocks, I switched a couple of years ago to Avo ones and never had any problems since. Koni are also very good but a pain to adjust.
I can't comment about Spax as i've never used them.
rufusruffcutt said:
This is a cracking idea which I might "ahem" borrow. Thanks for sharing. 
You can also do it with a bolt acting as a stop to restrict the radius arms droop travel (and stop the spring being displaced off it's seat). You drill through from the bodyshell toeboard underneath the seat. Much cheaper Gassing Station | Classic Minis | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff