Logan's Mini 1000 1971 Clubman Rebuild
Discussion
Hi all. I am new to these forums and am already hooked! The productivness and the way people are so willing to share their knowledge and help other people with their queries is really impressive! I am just about to purchase a 1971 mini clubman initially i will need to get two large and tricky rust areas cut out and repaired in the front right wheel well and in the right hand corner of the boot. Once these two tricky areas have been completed by a profeshional i hope to take out the rest of the rust spots myself and paint as i go. I am a reasonable oxy/mig/braze/... welder and have access to welders and a spray gun. This is my first rebuild and am hoping to gain a lot from it as i have a passion for motoring, especiall mini's! Because this is my first rebuild i will have a lot of questions for you guys and hope you can help me along and help me learn from your past experiences and not make the same mistakes! The clubman that i am purchasing is reasonably tidy but there is still a fair amount of work to be done. It currently has a 1000 engine which runs superbly, i plan to start on the shell first and begin to take out the rust and begin spraying. While i am doing so i hope to purchase a mg metro lump, take it apart learn the in's and outs of the engine, recondition it, strengthen it without replacing all the expensive parts such as pistons crank etc... i have read a lot about a+ engines?what does this mean and could someone explain the different mini engines and the difference between a a+ mg metro, mg metro etc engines as i am quite confused! I will update photos of the mini as soon as i have got it in the next week or so!
Hello Logan anmd a warm welcome on here to another Mini nut.
There are a lot of questions which would require a long answer so I'll just make a start.
First of all, good luck with the bodywork. So long as you do a little at a time and what you do do thoroughly, it will not be quick, but it won't be too difficult. As you rightly say, you'll learn as you go along.
We can all help you with your engine project when you get there.
Now for an introduction to engines. There were so many sizes, sub-types and categories of engine that it's had to know where to begin. Maybe at the beginning:
From 1959 the engine was 850 cc only until the 997 Cooper was introduced in Sept 1961. The Cooper remained in 997 very-long-stroke (i.e. 'orrible) form until Jan 1964 when the 997 was replaced by the much better 998, which is the same basic block as you now have.
The Cooper 'S', with a completely different block at 1071 cc was introduced in Mid-'63, followed by the 1275 and 970 Cooper 'S' in 1964, at which time the 1071 was discontinued. The Cooper 'S' types were intended for competition and the sizes reflect the class capacities, with the 970 winning the European Touring car Championship in 1965. When the 998 Cooper was discontinued in 1969, a 1275 engined version was built in a Clubman shell called the Clubman 1275GT. It was, however, a different block from the 1275 'S' and only had about 55 bhp on a good day. These engines can be fitted with Cooper 'S' cam, carbs and head to give the same power as an 'S', but the block and crank are different with the crank not being anywhere near as strong
An 1100 cc version called the Mini Special was produced in 1980 for a short while, but as the 1100 engine was, if possible, even more 'orrible than the 997 it didn't last long. At that time there the 1300 engine as in the Clubman GT was also fitted to the MG1300, the Austin and Morris 1300's and, in longitudinal form with different block castings and cranks, the Sprite & Midget range.
In the early 80's, about 1982, the A-series engine was modified to become the A+ unit.
The A+ block is stronger, but almost all parts are interchangeable with the pre-A+ engines. In terms of interchangeability they are identical and you can fit either a non-Cooper 'S' 1275, a Cooper 'S' 1275 (if you can find one!), an A+ 1275 or really any other A or A+ engine. There are a few subtle differences, but the main ones are the trasnsfer gears which take the drive down from the end of the crankshaft to the gearbox input shaft. The gear form, whilst remaining helical, changed in geometry so care must be taken in this area when fitting an A+ engine onto a gearbox previously fitted to a pre-A+. The clutch system changed in 1985 to what is known as a verto-type. Yours will be pre-Verto and most of us believe that thee pre-Verto type is better. They are virtually interchangeable, except that the clutch arm and slave cylinder are different on the Verto-type. The Verto fitted cars also had a pre-engaged starter motor which uses a different starter ring on the flywheel. Rings are interchangeable between flywheels, but you must get the right combination.
The MG Metro engine was possibly the best of the non-Cooper 'S' 1275 units as the cam is superb and the head has slightly larger inlet valves than the 1275 Mini range at that time.
That is really just a very general overview and no doubt you'll have many more detailed questions. Feel free to ask and we'll all help as best we can.
I hope this gives you a start.
All the best,
Peter
There are a lot of questions which would require a long answer so I'll just make a start.
First of all, good luck with the bodywork. So long as you do a little at a time and what you do do thoroughly, it will not be quick, but it won't be too difficult. As you rightly say, you'll learn as you go along.
We can all help you with your engine project when you get there.
Now for an introduction to engines. There were so many sizes, sub-types and categories of engine that it's had to know where to begin. Maybe at the beginning:
From 1959 the engine was 850 cc only until the 997 Cooper was introduced in Sept 1961. The Cooper remained in 997 very-long-stroke (i.e. 'orrible) form until Jan 1964 when the 997 was replaced by the much better 998, which is the same basic block as you now have.
The Cooper 'S', with a completely different block at 1071 cc was introduced in Mid-'63, followed by the 1275 and 970 Cooper 'S' in 1964, at which time the 1071 was discontinued. The Cooper 'S' types were intended for competition and the sizes reflect the class capacities, with the 970 winning the European Touring car Championship in 1965. When the 998 Cooper was discontinued in 1969, a 1275 engined version was built in a Clubman shell called the Clubman 1275GT. It was, however, a different block from the 1275 'S' and only had about 55 bhp on a good day. These engines can be fitted with Cooper 'S' cam, carbs and head to give the same power as an 'S', but the block and crank are different with the crank not being anywhere near as strong
An 1100 cc version called the Mini Special was produced in 1980 for a short while, but as the 1100 engine was, if possible, even more 'orrible than the 997 it didn't last long. At that time there the 1300 engine as in the Clubman GT was also fitted to the MG1300, the Austin and Morris 1300's and, in longitudinal form with different block castings and cranks, the Sprite & Midget range.
In the early 80's, about 1982, the A-series engine was modified to become the A+ unit.
The A+ block is stronger, but almost all parts are interchangeable with the pre-A+ engines. In terms of interchangeability they are identical and you can fit either a non-Cooper 'S' 1275, a Cooper 'S' 1275 (if you can find one!), an A+ 1275 or really any other A or A+ engine. There are a few subtle differences, but the main ones are the trasnsfer gears which take the drive down from the end of the crankshaft to the gearbox input shaft. The gear form, whilst remaining helical, changed in geometry so care must be taken in this area when fitting an A+ engine onto a gearbox previously fitted to a pre-A+. The clutch system changed in 1985 to what is known as a verto-type. Yours will be pre-Verto and most of us believe that thee pre-Verto type is better. They are virtually interchangeable, except that the clutch arm and slave cylinder are different on the Verto-type. The Verto fitted cars also had a pre-engaged starter motor which uses a different starter ring on the flywheel. Rings are interchangeable between flywheels, but you must get the right combination.
The MG Metro engine was possibly the best of the non-Cooper 'S' 1275 units as the cam is superb and the head has slightly larger inlet valves than the 1275 Mini range at that time.
That is really just a very general overview and no doubt you'll have many more detailed questions. Feel free to ask and we'll all help as best we can.
I hope this gives you a start.
All the best,
Peter
The A+ engine was fitted to all Austin-Rover vehicles, later Rover Cars, from the early 80's onwards. It is just a replacement for the earlier A-series. Thus all Minis, Metro, Maestros, etc, which had 1275 (i.e. 1300) engines had A+ from about 1982 onwards.
The 1275 A+ is, dimensionally, identical to the old 1275 A. There are certain improvements, however. The first is the 1275 A+ has much better con rods which are both lighter and stronger than the 1275 A rods. Also, the machining of the crank is said to be better on the A+, although some don't agree. I mix & match cranks from either A or A+ with no problems.
The MG Metro with its A+ is the same engine as fitted to the 1275 Mini of the same age with two main differences: The MG Metro has a much better cam as standard and the inlet valves are bigger. The compression ratio is also a bit higher, or so one is told, although if you are going to re-build an engine you will need to do all new comp ratio measurements and machining to make sure it's correct. We on here can tell you how to do this if you don't already know.
If originality is important to you then you should know that the A+ blocks are slightly different in appearance as the front of the block has stiffening webs cast in, whereas the old A blocks are relatively smooth-fronted.
If you are wanting to build your 1971 Clubman into a Clubman 1275GT then you'll need the pre A+ block for originality. I built a 1971 Clubman 998 into a 1330 cc Historic Rally Car a few years ago and we were not allowed to run the A+ block as it was not to period. With a Weber carb, and lots of other bits it turned out 104 bhp at 6200 rpm.
There is so much more, but just let me know what else you may need and I, and the others on here, will be most happy to help.
Peter
The 1275 A+ is, dimensionally, identical to the old 1275 A. There are certain improvements, however. The first is the 1275 A+ has much better con rods which are both lighter and stronger than the 1275 A rods. Also, the machining of the crank is said to be better on the A+, although some don't agree. I mix & match cranks from either A or A+ with no problems.
The MG Metro with its A+ is the same engine as fitted to the 1275 Mini of the same age with two main differences: The MG Metro has a much better cam as standard and the inlet valves are bigger. The compression ratio is also a bit higher, or so one is told, although if you are going to re-build an engine you will need to do all new comp ratio measurements and machining to make sure it's correct. We on here can tell you how to do this if you don't already know.
If originality is important to you then you should know that the A+ blocks are slightly different in appearance as the front of the block has stiffening webs cast in, whereas the old A blocks are relatively smooth-fronted.
If you are wanting to build your 1971 Clubman into a Clubman 1275GT then you'll need the pre A+ block for originality. I built a 1971 Clubman 998 into a 1330 cc Historic Rally Car a few years ago and we were not allowed to run the A+ block as it was not to period. With a Weber carb, and lots of other bits it turned out 104 bhp at 6200 rpm.
There is so much more, but just let me know what else you may need and I, and the others on here, will be most happy to help.
Peter
Cooperman said:
The A+ engine was fitted to all Austin-Rover vehicles, later Rover Cars, from the early 80's onwards. It is just a replacement for the earlier A-series. Thus all Minis, Metro, Maestros, etc, which had 1275 (i.e. 1300) engines had A+ from about 1982 onwards.
The 1275 A+ is, dimensionally, identical to the old 1275 A. There are certain improvements, however. The first is the 1275 A+ has much better con rods which are both lighter and stronger than the 1275 A rods. Also, the machining of the crank is said to be better on the A+, although some don't agree. I mix & match cranks from either A or A+ with no problems.
The MG Metro with its A+ is the same engine as fitted to the 1275 Mini of the same age with two main differences: The MG Metro has a much better cam as standard and the inlet valves are bigger. The compression ratio is also a bit higher, or so one is told, although if you are going to re-build an engine you will need to do all new comp ratio measurements and machining to make sure it's correct. We on here can tell you how to do this if you don't already know.
If originality is important to you then you should know that the A+ blocks are slightly different in appearance as the front of the block has stiffening webs cast in, whereas the old A blocks are relatively smooth-fronted.
If you are wanting to build your 1971 Clubman into a Clubman 1275GT then you'll need the pre A+ block for originality. I built a 1971 Clubman 998 into a 1330 cc Historic Rally Car a few years ago and we were not allowed to run the A+ block as it was not to period. With a Weber carb, and lots of other bits it turned out 104 bhp at 6200 rpm.
There is so much more, but just let me know what else you may need and I, and the others on here, will be most happy to help.
Peter
Ah i see. No i am not building it for originality it just intrigues me how small things can increase power and how many of these things can be done in the garden shed at home! So the mg metro engine is a 1300 cc ?and is completely different to a mini 1275 engine (clubman 1275 gt)and you can get a+ mg metro and a+mini clubman 1275gt engine correct?The 1275 A+ is, dimensionally, identical to the old 1275 A. There are certain improvements, however. The first is the 1275 A+ has much better con rods which are both lighter and stronger than the 1275 A rods. Also, the machining of the crank is said to be better on the A+, although some don't agree. I mix & match cranks from either A or A+ with no problems.
The MG Metro with its A+ is the same engine as fitted to the 1275 Mini of the same age with two main differences: The MG Metro has a much better cam as standard and the inlet valves are bigger. The compression ratio is also a bit higher, or so one is told, although if you are going to re-build an engine you will need to do all new comp ratio measurements and machining to make sure it's correct. We on here can tell you how to do this if you don't already know.
If originality is important to you then you should know that the A+ blocks are slightly different in appearance as the front of the block has stiffening webs cast in, whereas the old A blocks are relatively smooth-fronted.
If you are wanting to build your 1971 Clubman into a Clubman 1275GT then you'll need the pre A+ block for originality. I built a 1971 Clubman 998 into a 1330 cc Historic Rally Car a few years ago and we were not allowed to run the A+ block as it was not to period. With a Weber carb, and lots of other bits it turned out 104 bhp at 6200 rpm.
There is so much more, but just let me know what else you may need and I, and the others on here, will be most happy to help.
Peter
Edited by Mini May on Sunday 15th November 04:49
Mini May said:
Cooperman said:
The A+ engine was fitted to all Austin-Rover vehicles, later Rover Cars, from the early 80's onwards. It is just a replacement for the earlier A-series. Thus all Minis, Metro, Maestros, etc, which had 1275 (i.e. 1300) engines had A+ from about 1982 onwards.
The 1275 A+ is, dimensionally, identical to the old 1275 A. There are certain improvements, however. The first is the 1275 A+ has much better con rods which are both lighter and stronger than the 1275 A rods. Also, the machining of the crank is said to be better on the A+, although some don't agree. I mix & match cranks from either A or A+ with no problems.
The MG Metro with its A+ is the same engine as fitted to the 1275 Mini of the same age with two main differences: The MG Metro has a much better cam as standard and the inlet valves are bigger. The compression ratio is also a bit higher, or so one is told, although if you are going to re-build an engine you will need to do all new comp ratio measurements and machining to make sure it's correct. We on here can tell you how to do this if you don't already know.
If originality is important to you then you should know that the A+ blocks are slightly different in appearance as the front of the block has stiffening webs cast in, whereas the old A blocks are relatively smooth-fronted.
If you are wanting to build your 1971 Clubman into a Clubman 1275GT then you'll need the pre A+ block for originality. I built a 1971 Clubman 998 into a 1330 cc Historic Rally Car a few years ago and we were not allowed to run the A+ block as it was not to period. With a Weber carb, and lots of other bits it turned out 104 bhp at 6200 rpm.
There is so much more, but just let me know what else you may need and I, and the others on here, will be most happy to help.
Peter
Ah i see. No i am not building it for originality it just intrigues me how small things can increase power and how many of these things can be done in the garden shed at home! So the mg metro engine is a 1300 cc ?and is completely different to a mini 1275 engine (clubman 1275 gt)and you can get a+ mg metro and a+mini clubman 1275gt engine correct?The 1275 A+ is, dimensionally, identical to the old 1275 A. There are certain improvements, however. The first is the 1275 A+ has much better con rods which are both lighter and stronger than the 1275 A rods. Also, the machining of the crank is said to be better on the A+, although some don't agree. I mix & match cranks from either A or A+ with no problems.
The MG Metro with its A+ is the same engine as fitted to the 1275 Mini of the same age with two main differences: The MG Metro has a much better cam as standard and the inlet valves are bigger. The compression ratio is also a bit higher, or so one is told, although if you are going to re-build an engine you will need to do all new comp ratio measurements and machining to make sure it's correct. We on here can tell you how to do this if you don't already know.
If originality is important to you then you should know that the A+ blocks are slightly different in appearance as the front of the block has stiffening webs cast in, whereas the old A blocks are relatively smooth-fronted.
If you are wanting to build your 1971 Clubman into a Clubman 1275GT then you'll need the pre A+ block for originality. I built a 1971 Clubman 998 into a 1330 cc Historic Rally Car a few years ago and we were not allowed to run the A+ block as it was not to period. With a Weber carb, and lots of other bits it turned out 104 bhp at 6200 rpm.
There is so much more, but just let me know what else you may need and I, and the others on here, will be most happy to help.
Peter
Edited by Mini May on Sunday 15th November 04:49
One other point to note is that A+ engines from 1985 had a different main bearing shell retention arrangement. The difference is that the small tang which locates the main bearing shell is centrally located in the main cap, but still offset in the block. However, if you do get the wrong main beasring shells, it's a simple matter to file the A+ main cap to accept the offset tang from the earlier enginers. In fact, I had an early A+ with the offset tang only a couple of weeks ago but had the later bearings on-the-shelf and 15 minutes with a small flat draw-file allowed me to carry on with the build.
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