Discussion
I know it's been done to death in the past, as I've searched the entire forum but:
I am on 12" BL Minilite style rims, the car will be "road" plus hopefully "road rally" and "historic"(with fairly loose regs re wheel size) as that was what it was being built for, before my life change (projects been ongoing for a while) plus possibly hillclimb (road legal).
Do I go 145x70x12 or 165x60x12. Yokohama (A539? or A008 or other?) or Falken or one of the other manufacturers suggested, Pirelli P3000 or Bridgestone(both 145x70).
My own guess is the car will be more positive on 145's but will have bettr grip in the dry with 165' but may bounce around on the road. (I bought a Lotus 7 with 205x70's once that bounced like Mr Blobby til I got rid of them).
Regards
Tony H
I am on 12" BL Minilite style rims, the car will be "road" plus hopefully "road rally" and "historic"(with fairly loose regs re wheel size) as that was what it was being built for, before my life change (projects been ongoing for a while) plus possibly hillclimb (road legal).
Do I go 145x70x12 or 165x60x12. Yokohama (A539? or A008 or other?) or Falken or one of the other manufacturers suggested, Pirelli P3000 or Bridgestone(both 145x70).
My own guess is the car will be more positive on 145's but will have bettr grip in the dry with 165' but may bounce around on the road. (I bought a Lotus 7 with 205x70's once that bounced like Mr Blobby til I got rid of them).
Regards
Tony H
I'd give 145/70x12" a miss - Had them on my first 12" rimmed Mini and they are good in the snow, that's about it! If you are on 12" rims stick with 165/60 tyres - lower aspect ratio and sidewall height ensures much better tread stabiility and resistance to deformation when cornering hard. You've got loads of choices in terms of tyre manufacturers too..... only ones I'd avoid are Dunlops as they don't seem to stay round! (I've had personal experience!).
10" rims will make the car handle better as there is less unsprung weight in wheel tyre mass for the suspension to have to cope with.
10" rims will make the car handle better as there is less unsprung weight in wheel tyre mass for the suspension to have to cope with.
Definately 165/60x12. Falken are good but Yoko's are better. You can't get an A008, but the other one, I forget the number, is great. Choice is a bit limited though.
The only problem is that for Historic/Post Historic rallying (I guess you are Post-Historic) you have to have a 70 profile as that is the minimum to comply with the Blue Book. This only leaves a 145/70x12 and that's not good. Maybe you should look at going to 10" wheels where there is more tyre choice (Colway, Falken, Dunlop, Yoko, Maxsport, etc) You can even get a Colway or Maxsport knobbly for the forests, or the Welsh or Devon lanes, in 165/70x10.
The only problem is that for Historic/Post Historic rallying (I guess you are Post-Historic) you have to have a 70 profile as that is the minimum to comply with the Blue Book. This only leaves a 145/70x12 and that's not good. Maybe you should look at going to 10" wheels where there is more tyre choice (Colway, Falken, Dunlop, Yoko, Maxsport, etc) You can even get a Colway or Maxsport knobbly for the forests, or the Welsh or Devon lanes, in 165/70x10.
[quote=Cooperman]
The only problem is that for Historic/Post Historic rallying (I guess you are Post-Historic) you have to have a 70 profile as that is the minimum to comply with the Blue Book.quote]
Oh bother, I forgot that one Peter, a friend had his TR5 excluded I seem to remember, couple of years ago on the Berwick Classic.
Have the 8.4 brakes and rebuilt discs etc so it has to be 12". Will think about this one...
Now for the prob about running rich....
Tony H
The only problem is that for Historic/Post Historic rallying (I guess you are Post-Historic) you have to have a 70 profile as that is the minimum to comply with the Blue Book.quote]
Oh bother, I forgot that one Peter, a friend had his TR5 excluded I seem to remember, couple of years ago on the Berwick Classic.
Have the 8.4 brakes and rebuilt discs etc so it has to be 12". Will think about this one...
Now for the prob about running rich....
Tony H
Look at some of those 10" cooper s lookalike alloy wheels, they clear 8.4 disks. Wellers do as well, but they stick out quite a bit. I'd run 10s everytime. If you want to do the job properly, look at miniclassic.co.uk and search topic for fiesta callipers. You can use them to get 10" on over turned down 8.4 disks. You need 2 mk2 fiesta sliding callipers, and a set of 8.4 disks which have been turned down to 7.9" (few quid, machine shop).
10" wheels rule and if you run 145 crossplies, you will have never smiled so much in your life! Visualise 4 wheel drifts like the 60's racers. You can really set it up sideways for corners!
10" wheels rule and if you run 145 crossplies, you will have never smiled so much in your life! Visualise 4 wheel drifts like the 60's racers. You can really set it up sideways for corners!
love machine said:
Look at some of those 10" cooper s lookalike alloy wheels, they clear 8.4 disks.
Didn't think any did, can you suggest some.
Don't want to go to fiesta calipers as they need grinding down and you don't know how close you are to the oilways.
Was told yesterday, 10" tyres are getting hard to comeby and that you need to have some to part-ex. Guess that could be remoulds (colways?)
Tony H
>> Edited by skyedriver on Sunday 5th February 00:06
both the japspec 12-10 wheels and fiesta caliper conversions are the preserve of people who value looks and economy before handeling, common sense (and in the case of the brakes) their lifes.
if you are converting to 10" wheels buy the proper stuff that has been thought out, tested and manufactuerd to a sensible standard - for 350 quid you can buy the stuff of the shelf (brakes) and wheels (50 quid a corner).
if you have rebuilt your 8.4" brakes use the 165/60/12 539 yokos - you just cannot beat them for price/grip/wear.
me, i'll stick to my 10" wheels, alloy four pots with carbon metallics and flit between a32Rs, a008s or avons (which are mighty!)
if you are converting to 10" wheels buy the proper stuff that has been thought out, tested and manufactuerd to a sensible standard - for 350 quid you can buy the stuff of the shelf (brakes) and wheels (50 quid a corner).
if you have rebuilt your 8.4" brakes use the 165/60/12 539 yokos - you just cannot beat them for price/grip/wear.
me, i'll stick to my 10" wheels, alloy four pots with carbon metallics and flit between a32Rs, a008s or avons (which are mighty!)
The regulations for Historic rallies do mandate a 70 section, or greater, aspect ratio.
The 155/70x12 Colways are what you have to use for Enduro Rallies where Colways are (were)the 'control' tyre. I found that they hit the inner wheel arch and the lip on the forward edge of the front wings, so a big hammer came in useful. Grip was OK whilst everyone you are competing against had the same rubber, but the grip was not exactly 'state of the art'.
To be competitive on historic rallies you do really need 10" wheels. Remember, Fiesta calipers and other 'trick' stuff is not allowed either, so the optimum is not an option. My recomendation, if you want to be competitive on historic events, is to go 10" with 'S' calipers and discs and then use Yokos for the tarmac and Colway Rally-Plus, both at 165/70x10, on either 4.5" or 5" wheels. Don't forget, the handling is superior on 10" as well as having the better choice of rubber and a 'tyre for all occassions' is available.
The 155/70x12 Colways are what you have to use for Enduro Rallies where Colways are (were)the 'control' tyre. I found that they hit the inner wheel arch and the lip on the forward edge of the front wings, so a big hammer came in useful. Grip was OK whilst everyone you are competing against had the same rubber, but the grip was not exactly 'state of the art'.
To be competitive on historic rallies you do really need 10" wheels. Remember, Fiesta calipers and other 'trick' stuff is not allowed either, so the optimum is not an option. My recomendation, if you want to be competitive on historic events, is to go 10" with 'S' calipers and discs and then use Yokos for the tarmac and Colway Rally-Plus, both at 165/70x10, on either 4.5" or 5" wheels. Don't forget, the handling is superior on 10" as well as having the better choice of rubber and a 'tyre for all occassions' is available.
Here endeth the lesson!
Thanks all, especially Peter.
Without shouting down my ear you have confirmed that I have wasted my money on 8.4" and should have bought "S" discs etc.....
If anyone out there knows of a wheel that will go over the 8.4 I would appreciate the info.
Peter, it would appear that the historics around the NE & Borders are a bit relaxed re 60 profile, unless you win. As it is unlikely that I come near the top of the results sheet in the first few years.......
Tony H
Thanks all, especially Peter.
Without shouting down my ear you have confirmed that I have wasted my money on 8.4" and should have bought "S" discs etc.....
If anyone out there knows of a wheel that will go over the 8.4 I would appreciate the info.
Peter, it would appear that the historics around the NE & Borders are a bit relaxed re 60 profile, unless you win. As it is unlikely that I come near the top of the results sheet in the first few years.......
Tony H
I think, but I've never done it, that it is possible to machine the 8.4" calipers and fit the Mini-Spares 4.5J x 10" Minilite look-alike wheel. Maybe the rim needs a bit skimming off the inside face as well. The problem could be the amount of metal remaining. If you were able to do this I don't think you would have a problem with scrutineering as the scrute would not be looking for oversize illegal discs, which, in historic terms, the 8.4" ones are.
The problems with 60 profile tyres are that at scrutineering they can so easily be seen. There was a Mexico on an Illuminations Rally with 60 profile tyres and the owner had to rush to the local tyre shop in Morecambe to buy a new set of 70 profile in order to be allowed to start, or so I was told.
Rich ('guru1071') is quite right about 7.5 discs, 'S' calipers and carbon-metallic pads - that's a super set-up and the optimim for historic rallying. Why not have a search for some old 'S' calipers. They are very easy and cheap to recondition with stainless pistons and the discs themselves are so cheap, c.£25 each for decent ones. All you then need at the drive flanges as the CV joints and drive shafts are compatible.
I hope this helps,
Peter
The problems with 60 profile tyres are that at scrutineering they can so easily be seen. There was a Mexico on an Illuminations Rally with 60 profile tyres and the owner had to rush to the local tyre shop in Morecambe to buy a new set of 70 profile in order to be allowed to start, or so I was told.
Rich ('guru1071') is quite right about 7.5 discs, 'S' calipers and carbon-metallic pads - that's a super set-up and the optimim for historic rallying. Why not have a search for some old 'S' calipers. They are very easy and cheap to recondition with stainless pistons and the discs themselves are so cheap, c.£25 each for decent ones. All you then need at the drive flanges as the CV joints and drive shafts are compatible.
I hope this helps,
Peter
Weller 6x10 are period on a clubby and would fit over 8.4's I hear. I'm not sure about big offset wheels, I ran some 7x10's on my 66 with a silly offset and it went around corners like it was on rails. However, the steering was horrible. I'd keep a bigger steering wheel with them. Of course, if you are into drivability and having a nice feel, you have to go with an S setup and as much inset as you can get, like Mambas or Dunlops. I miss my nice centre point steering, but only when I park the thing.
I certainly wouldn't want to rally on 6" or 7" wide rims. The most I would recommend for rallying is 5".
The nice thing about the 4.5" replica Special Tuning type Minilites is that you don't need wheel arch extensions, so that's less bits to knock off in competition. I just get away without arch extensions with standard 'S' offset 5" BWA's, although they do stick out a little bit. I run my 4.5's with the Colway Knobblies and the 5" with Falkens, although sometimes I put A008's on. In practice there is very little difference between Falkens and A008's on twisty and slightly broken/loose tarmac, although on mud the Falkens are a bit better. Once a close pattern tyre is clogged with mud it ain't gonna work too well whatever pattern you have!
The nice thing about the 4.5" replica Special Tuning type Minilites is that you don't need wheel arch extensions, so that's less bits to knock off in competition. I just get away without arch extensions with standard 'S' offset 5" BWA's, although they do stick out a little bit. I run my 4.5's with the Colway Knobblies and the 5" with Falkens, although sometimes I put A008's on. In practice there is very little difference between Falkens and A008's on twisty and slightly broken/loose tarmac, although on mud the Falkens are a bit better. Once a close pattern tyre is clogged with mud it ain't gonna work too well whatever pattern you have!
Gassing Station | Classic Minis | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff