Discussion
After careful consideration and because of low money I am going to spray at home in a garage and try my best to control the environment, good prep etc.
I know that 2 pac is the best option but cannot afford to get it done, so I'll be compressing at home in old english white. As I understand it cellulose is used but is pretty short lasting. I also believe when you get a spray can from say halfords it contains acrylic....... Can I spray acrylic at home, rather than cellulose and will it produce a better finish?? Are there any hazards to acrylic such as fumes etc??
Cellulose or acrylic??
I know that 2 pac is the best option but cannot afford to get it done, so I'll be compressing at home in old english white. As I understand it cellulose is used but is pretty short lasting. I also believe when you get a spray can from say halfords it contains acrylic....... Can I spray acrylic at home, rather than cellulose and will it produce a better finish?? Are there any hazards to acrylic such as fumes etc??
Cellulose or acrylic??
Definately cellulose, IMHO.
First clean off with 'Panel Wipe'. That's a trichlorethyline based de-greaser.
Prime it using a good high-build primer and rub down carefully. De-grease again. Hi-build will enable you to overcome any irregularities in the surface to be painted and can be built up to about 1/8" if you are careful. Much better than that nasty old grey primer we used to be stuck with.
Then paint starting with a 50/50 mix of cellulose to thinners and do about two or 3 coats like that. Rub down with 1200 wet& dry between coats.
Add a couple more coats at about 25% paint to 75% thinners.
Finally spray with a mix of about 85% thinners to bring up the gloss - be careful not to get any runs with this thin mix.
Leave it to thoroughly dry out (24 hours minimum) then 'nib down' with 1800 wet & dry using soap as well.
Polish back with a quality rubbing compound, but not one which is too abrasive. Ferecla is good, but comes in several levels of abrasiveness.
Finally polish with 'hand-glaze' then use a quality wax such as Autoglym to bring up the shine.
Don't rush the job and make sure the compressor has a water trap fitted and that your gun is always cleaned out after each application. Don't run the compressor at too high a pressure (a lot of people make that mistake) as the paint can 'bounce' off the surface.
Remember, lots of thin coats are better than fewer thick ones, and there is less chance of getting runs.
You do need a lot of light to see wehat you're doing.
Good luck. I hate painting, which is why I get Chris Spennewyn to do most of mine in 2-pack.
I hope this helps a bit.
Peter
First clean off with 'Panel Wipe'. That's a trichlorethyline based de-greaser.
Prime it using a good high-build primer and rub down carefully. De-grease again. Hi-build will enable you to overcome any irregularities in the surface to be painted and can be built up to about 1/8" if you are careful. Much better than that nasty old grey primer we used to be stuck with.
Then paint starting with a 50/50 mix of cellulose to thinners and do about two or 3 coats like that. Rub down with 1200 wet& dry between coats.
Add a couple more coats at about 25% paint to 75% thinners.
Finally spray with a mix of about 85% thinners to bring up the gloss - be careful not to get any runs with this thin mix.
Leave it to thoroughly dry out (24 hours minimum) then 'nib down' with 1800 wet & dry using soap as well.
Polish back with a quality rubbing compound, but not one which is too abrasive. Ferecla is good, but comes in several levels of abrasiveness.
Finally polish with 'hand-glaze' then use a quality wax such as Autoglym to bring up the shine.
Don't rush the job and make sure the compressor has a water trap fitted and that your gun is always cleaned out after each application. Don't run the compressor at too high a pressure (a lot of people make that mistake) as the paint can 'bounce' off the surface.
Remember, lots of thin coats are better than fewer thick ones, and there is less chance of getting runs.
You do need a lot of light to see wehat you're doing.
Good luck. I hate painting, which is why I get Chris Spennewyn to do most of mine in 2-pack.
I hope this helps a bit.
Peter
Cheers Pete, you always seem to know everything.
Just indterested to know How much paint I will need roughly?
When you say rub down between coats, how long should I leave the paint to harden before I start?
Do you know of any reputable mail order paint suppliers?
Thanks in advance
Kev
Just indterested to know How much paint I will need roughly?
When you say rub down between coats, how long should I leave the paint to harden before I start?
Do you know of any reputable mail order paint suppliers?
Thanks in advance
Kev
If it's just the outside, but includes the roof I would get at least 2 litres of paint (and don't get the cheap s**t stuff), 5 litres of spraygloss top quality thinners and 5 litres of cheap thinners for cleaning the gun, etc.
In addition, get 5 litres of 'panel wipe', some rolls of mutton cloth and at 2 litres of 'hi-build' primer.
Don't forget the wet & dry, 1200 and 1800 grit.
A couple of rolls of masking tape 2" wide.
When I use the hi-build primer/surfacer I rub down dry with medium aluminium oxide paper rather than wet & dry as it doesn't clog and you can feel the surface finish better. Make sure, though, that you get all the dust off with your panel wipe before applying top coat. The 'Hi-Build' really can cover a multitude of surface irreguarities and it doesn't need any thinners, just spray it straight out of the tin.
What you need is a local auto-paint factor as there is quite a lot needed and if you run out you need to be able to get the extra as quickly as possible.
With regard to times before rubbing down, the Hi-Build can normally be sanded after an hour or so -longer if really thick in places. The cellulose should be left for a couple of hours between coates, but don't rub it down too much. In fact. i know one painter who doesn't rub cellulose down at all, he just keeps on spraying it on, only rubbing out any runs between coates, then he uses 1800 grit wet & dry with soap at the very end and buffs it all back after a day or so to harden. Cellulose is very forgiving, unless it reticulates on any old acrylic or synthetic paint, in which case you have to spray a barrier coat of Bar-Coat (just hope this doesn't happen, I once had an entire bonnet reticulate.
The key to spraying seems to be to only spray when it's warm and when you have plenty of light, keep everything very clean and don't be impatient. Don't panic if you get a run or two, but leave any runs to get really dry before 'nibbing' them out with wet & dry. Maybe for a first effort, don't go too thin with the final coats - no more than 65% thinners, and don't keep on spraying just fore the sake of it (it's easy to do this).
Peter
In addition, get 5 litres of 'panel wipe', some rolls of mutton cloth and at 2 litres of 'hi-build' primer.
Don't forget the wet & dry, 1200 and 1800 grit.
A couple of rolls of masking tape 2" wide.
When I use the hi-build primer/surfacer I rub down dry with medium aluminium oxide paper rather than wet & dry as it doesn't clog and you can feel the surface finish better. Make sure, though, that you get all the dust off with your panel wipe before applying top coat. The 'Hi-Build' really can cover a multitude of surface irreguarities and it doesn't need any thinners, just spray it straight out of the tin.
What you need is a local auto-paint factor as there is quite a lot needed and if you run out you need to be able to get the extra as quickly as possible.
With regard to times before rubbing down, the Hi-Build can normally be sanded after an hour or so -longer if really thick in places. The cellulose should be left for a couple of hours between coates, but don't rub it down too much. In fact. i know one painter who doesn't rub cellulose down at all, he just keeps on spraying it on, only rubbing out any runs between coates, then he uses 1800 grit wet & dry with soap at the very end and buffs it all back after a day or so to harden. Cellulose is very forgiving, unless it reticulates on any old acrylic or synthetic paint, in which case you have to spray a barrier coat of Bar-Coat (just hope this doesn't happen, I once had an entire bonnet reticulate.
The key to spraying seems to be to only spray when it's warm and when you have plenty of light, keep everything very clean and don't be impatient. Don't panic if you get a run or two, but leave any runs to get really dry before 'nibbing' them out with wet & dry. Maybe for a first effort, don't go too thin with the final coats - no more than 65% thinners, and don't keep on spraying just fore the sake of it (it's easy to do this).
Peter
Been asking this question myself, both on this and on the bodywork forum.
Funny how the young 'uns recommend 2pack and us "more experienced" go for celly, Peter!
I was always told that the very thinned final coat gave a good shine that wouldn't last where as a less thinned coat would last better. Maybe that's why I always got a smooth finish that didn't have that factory look!
Getting my paint, hopefully on thursday, but looks like i'll have to move house, the nearest factors is (are?) a 200mile/4hour return trip!
Happy painting Kleeky
Thanks for the help Peter (again).
Hope you are keeping well.
Tony H
Funny how the young 'uns recommend 2pack and us "more experienced" go for celly, Peter!
I was always told that the very thinned final coat gave a good shine that wouldn't last where as a less thinned coat would last better. Maybe that's why I always got a smooth finish that didn't have that factory look!
Getting my paint, hopefully on thursday, but looks like i'll have to move house, the nearest factors is (are?) a 200mile/4hour return trip!
Happy painting Kleeky
Thanks for the help Peter (again).
Hope you are keeping well.
Tony H
Seem to remember saying that painting the car is one of my favourite parts of a resto....
Never again, the primer has reacted with:
a) the layer of paint under the top layer on the replacement door,
b)the aerosol primer filler,
c)the little bit of hammerite (yes I know I said I'd got away with it in the past),
d)some RED paint (the car's never been red!) and
refuses to stick to an area of filler.
The Old English White I got for the roof is BEIGE!, not white and i've been out and done some more this morning and it's bloomed over lunch because it's a bit damp up here.
If there's anything else to go wrong.........
Never again, the primer has reacted with:
a) the layer of paint under the top layer on the replacement door,
b)the aerosol primer filler,
c)the little bit of hammerite (yes I know I said I'd got away with it in the past),
d)some RED paint (the car's never been red!) and
refuses to stick to an area of filler.
The Old English White I got for the roof is BEIGE!, not white and i've been out and done some more this morning and it's bloomed over lunch because it's a bit damp up here.
If there's anything else to go wrong.........
I'm sure you know what to do, but for any that don't here goes. If you get 'reticulation' where the new paint reacts with the old and gives a sort of 'crazy-paving' finish you need to rub it down a bit, but not over-do it, then spray 2 or 3 coats of 'Bar Coat' sealer. Bar Coat comes 'gun ready' and is vey easy to use. Make sure you cover all the surface with it. After applying the Bar Coat you then spray a coat of hi-build primer followed by the first couple of top coata, all without rubbing down in between. Then you go over the top coat with a fairly fine wet & dry before spraying the final top coats.
Good luck with it, Tony.
All the best,
Peter
Good luck with it, Tony.
All the best,
Peter
Got it all sealed up yesterday, eventually, it was the fact that one area "went" but once I had that sorted, THEN another area reacted and on onward and downward!
Still haven't thought about where the red came from and as for the OEW being Beige! I know there was a number of OEW variants but! Beige roof looks quite "different" but it wasn't what I was wanting.
Now if i'll only stop raining I can get on with the rest of the gloss. It was a lovely day yesterday up here(until the midges came out in the later afternoon) and was forecast similar today but once again Skye weather.....
I hear you are now onto Rover 214's Peter, foresaken the mini?
Tony H
Still haven't thought about where the red came from and as for the OEW being Beige! I know there was a number of OEW variants but! Beige roof looks quite "different" but it wasn't what I was wanting.
Now if i'll only stop raining I can get on with the rest of the gloss. It was a lovely day yesterday up here(until the midges came out in the later afternoon) and was forecast similar today but once again Skye weather.....
I hear you are now onto Rover 214's Peter, foresaken the mini?
Tony H
No, Tony, I'm still a Mini-man at heart.
However, after geting up to 7th overall on the RAC Revival Rally last November in the 'black Mini' my son and I felt that we could have been in the top 4 in a more modern car, so I bought a 1997 Rover 214 Si.
We got a 5th overall on the Chelmsford M.C. Midsummer Enduro Rally, but if we'd been in the Mini I doubt we would have made the top 12. It was a really rough event. There is still a lot of development work to do on the Rover and so far I think the front suspension need more development in terms of spring rates. This year we have to run with fixed and standard spring platforms, but next year's regs allow adjustable, so I can fit the Leda kit.
My Historic mini is nearly rebuilt in terms of a complete engine rebuild to 1310 cc, all new s/c c/r box with 1:1 s/c drop gears. Ihas a new front wing (too many little rally bumps on the driver's side), new sills and rear valence and just needs finishing.
I am currently building up my 'hobby-job' of building 'A-Series' engines for rally and fast road use so that I can retire from 'proper' work if I choose next year. At present I have two Mini engines plus a rally Sprite Mk1 unit (it's a 1098 cc with a projected 80 bhp output) in work, so I'm pretty busy with that lot.
Keep up the good work and get that painting finished. I remember those damn midges from rallying in Scotland in August and Sept (the old Burmah rally comes to mind).
However, after geting up to 7th overall on the RAC Revival Rally last November in the 'black Mini' my son and I felt that we could have been in the top 4 in a more modern car, so I bought a 1997 Rover 214 Si.
We got a 5th overall on the Chelmsford M.C. Midsummer Enduro Rally, but if we'd been in the Mini I doubt we would have made the top 12. It was a really rough event. There is still a lot of development work to do on the Rover and so far I think the front suspension need more development in terms of spring rates. This year we have to run with fixed and standard spring platforms, but next year's regs allow adjustable, so I can fit the Leda kit.
My Historic mini is nearly rebuilt in terms of a complete engine rebuild to 1310 cc, all new s/c c/r box with 1:1 s/c drop gears. Ihas a new front wing (too many little rally bumps on the driver's side), new sills and rear valence and just needs finishing.
I am currently building up my 'hobby-job' of building 'A-Series' engines for rally and fast road use so that I can retire from 'proper' work if I choose next year. At present I have two Mini engines plus a rally Sprite Mk1 unit (it's a 1098 cc with a projected 80 bhp output) in work, so I'm pretty busy with that lot.
Keep up the good work and get that painting finished. I remember those damn midges from rallying in Scotland in August and Sept (the old Burmah rally comes to mind).
Hi there.i wonder if you can point me in the right direction.took the rubber bumpers off my midget,I found the guy who did the spray job didn't spray behind them.thought that it was carmine red then finding out after weeks of research that it is a bmw motorcycle colour of piedmont rot red!! Any who,getting back to the paint.with it being two smallish rectangles of the original orange vermillion that had been left,I rubbed everything down and applied a hi build red primer from a rattle can first,then have just put on the first coat of the base coat.it has reacted in a strange way. It has covered ok in areas ok ish but in the main,it looks like big runs but with the original colour showing underneath. It is a new gun and I have run through it with thinners.just thinking hard of what it could be.i am a total amateur so painting for dummy tips would be appreciated.
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