uh-oh, now i've really done it...
Discussion
Hi chaps, today I think I bust the gearbox casing. the drive shaft seals were done about 4 months ago and I noticed it leaking with increasing degrees of ferocity recently, and today I started it after 4 weeks of idleness and within 2 minutes of getting to the mini garage it had emptied the entire contents of the sump on to the road 
so, it's either the bearing in the 'box that's knackered as well as the casing (we looked) or just the casing. either way I reckon it's a new box needed. bugger
does anyone know if you can whip the engine out and just change the casing alone? or do I need a new 'box? where's best to get one from? any ideas on cost? trying to minimise the cost as I have two other cars to fix as well!
if a new 'box is the only way, would it be reasonable to purchase a working engine and 'box and stick that in? - I know that second hand engines in mild tune (i'd need it to be at least the same as what I have at the moment) can be had for £400ish and my guess is that's what a new 'box alone will cost.
sorry about the long post but I need a bit of help and I could really really really have done without this latest attempt from the devil to vomit in my kettle
>>> Edited by minimax on Wednesday 30th March 12:47
so, it's either the bearing in the 'box that's knackered as well as the casing (we looked) or just the casing. either way I reckon it's a new box needed. bugger
does anyone know if you can whip the engine out and just change the casing alone? or do I need a new 'box? where's best to get one from? any ideas on cost? trying to minimise the cost as I have two other cars to fix as well!
if a new 'box is the only way, would it be reasonable to purchase a working engine and 'box and stick that in? - I know that second hand engines in mild tune (i'd need it to be at least the same as what I have at the moment) can be had for £400ish and my guess is that's what a new 'box alone will cost.
sorry about the long post but I need a bit of help and I could really really really have done without this latest attempt from the devil to vomit in my kettle
>>> Edited by minimax on Wednesday 30th March 12:47
Recon box about £195 and can be done in isolation but its an engine out job (obviously). If you switched it off as soon as you saw the oil I doubt there would be any real issues. Are you sure its not just the pot joint seal come loose as that would cause significant oil loss I imagine.
The real expense is whilst the engine is out, why not do cams, head, this, that, the other etc...
The real expense is whilst the engine is out, why not do cams, head, this, that, the other etc...
Plotloss said:
Recon box about £195 and can be done in isolation but its an engine out job (obviously). If you switched it off as soon as you saw the oil I doubt there would be any real issues. Are you sure its not just the pot joint seal come loose as that would cause significant oil loss I imagine.
The real expense is whilst the engine is out, why not do cams, head, this, that, the other etc...
£195 is not too bad...
I think the pot joint (where the driveshaft meets the 'box???) seals just move around a lot because the bearing might well be shagged. I do drive it like jehu (see here) absollutely everywhere I go so the recon 'box I had in it about 2 years ago might well be buggered after 20k of hard use with 80odd BHP at the crank. >> Edited by minimax on Wednesday 30th March 13:00
I would go the recon route over any old box off an engine of similar age as most of the recon jobs from specialists have the central pickup and the like.
Why not take the opportunity to go straight cut? It does cost quite a bit more mind you.
Whhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
There are loads of places in the Mini Mags that do gearbox recons, theres bound to be someone near you.
Why not take the opportunity to go straight cut? It does cost quite a bit more mind you.
Whhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
There are loads of places in the Mini Mags that do gearbox recons, theres bound to be someone near you.
Plotloss said:
I would go the recon route over any old box off an engine of similar age as most of the recon jobs from specialists have the central pickup and the like.
Why not take the opportunity to go straight cut? It does cost quite a bit more mind you.
Whhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I would love to go with a straight cut but it's money old bean
wouldn't normally be an issue but the total bill for the Ginetta is going to come to over 4k and I still haven't fixed the pug
Get yourself an engine and box from ebay. Make sure the add states its in good running order. Swap the box over to your engine until you have time and funds to rebuild the current box you have.
It really is the cheapest and best option, you also get to keep on the road while you rebuild your old box in slow time.
Remember you can use a box from a 1000c as well as 1275cc cars, just need to make sure its A or A+.
It really is the cheapest and best option, you also get to keep on the road while you rebuild your old box in slow time.
Remember you can use a box from a 1000c as well as 1275cc cars, just need to make sure its A or A+.
I have an engine and 'box from a (non-MG) 1300 Metro, currently buried in my garage a few miles North of your current position. Came from a 80k-odd miles car.
Interested?
EDIT: It's very complete - missing only starter motor I think... Plus I have a pile of Metro bits (don't ask) that you can pick over for nowt, whether you have engine & box or not.
>> Edited by filmidget on Wednesday 30th March 13:56
Interested?
EDIT: It's very complete - missing only starter motor I think... Plus I have a pile of Metro bits (don't ask) that you can pick over for nowt, whether you have engine & box or not.
>> Edited by filmidget on Wednesday 30th March 13:56
filmidget said:
I have an engine and 'box from a (non-MG) 1300 Metro, currently buried in my garage a few miles North of your current position. Came from a 80k-odd miles car.
Interested?
EDIT: It's very complete - missing only starter motor I think... Plus I have a pile of Metro bits (don't ask) that you can pick over for nowt, whether you have engine & box or not.
>> Edited by filmidget on Wednesday 30th March 13:56
YHM
minimax said:
I have an engine and 'box from a (non-MG) 1300 Metro, currently buried in my garage a few miles North of your current position. Came from a 80k-odd miles car.
Interested?
EDIT: It's very complete - missing only starter motor I think... Plus I have a pile of Metro bits (don't ask) that you can pick over for nowt, whether you have engine & box or not.
>> Edited by filmidget on Wednesday 30th March 13:56
YHM
you now have mail to the correct address
If the box is working properly, apart from the oil loss, this is what I would do:
Take out the engine.
Remove the gearbox from the engine. Re-fit the output joint housings into the box.
Clean out the box with paraffin, then put 1 gallon of paraffin into the box to find out where it's leaking from.
If it is the output joint bushes, fit & hone new ones complete with new seals.
If the gearbox casing has a crack it can be welded up by a good aluminium welder without stripping out all the gears. You must use a trichlorethelene de-greasing fluid before welding, but the casing can be welded without removing the gears.
File the weld smooth and re-fit to engine.
I've had to do this to one of my Minis when a diff bolt came adrift and punched a hole in the casing. That was 10 years ago and the casing is still in use.
To find a good aluminium welder try the local airport or aircraft maintenance company, they will know of a qualified CAA approved welder.
Take out the engine.
Remove the gearbox from the engine. Re-fit the output joint housings into the box.
Clean out the box with paraffin, then put 1 gallon of paraffin into the box to find out where it's leaking from.
If it is the output joint bushes, fit & hone new ones complete with new seals.
If the gearbox casing has a crack it can be welded up by a good aluminium welder without stripping out all the gears. You must use a trichlorethelene de-greasing fluid before welding, but the casing can be welded without removing the gears.
File the weld smooth and re-fit to engine.
I've had to do this to one of my Minis when a diff bolt came adrift and punched a hole in the casing. That was 10 years ago and the casing is still in use.
To find a good aluminium welder try the local airport or aircraft maintenance company, they will know of a qualified CAA approved welder.
Cooperman said:
If the box is working properly, apart from the oil loss, this is what I would do:
Take out the engine.
Remove the gearbox from the engine. Re-fit the output joint housings into the box.
Clean out the box with paraffin, then put 1 gallon of paraffin into the box to find out where it's leaking from.
If it is the output joint bushes, fit & hone new ones complete with new seals.
If the gearbox casing has a crack it can be welded up by a good aluminium welder without stripping out all the gears. You must use a trichlorethelene de-greasing fluid before welding, but the casing can be welded without removing the gears.
File the weld smooth and re-fit to engine.
I've had to do this to one of my Minis when a diff bolt came adrift and punched a hole in the casing. That was 10 years ago and the casing is still in use.
To find a good aluminium welder try the local airport or aircraft maintenance company, they will know of a qualified CAA approved welder.
you, sir are obviously a great deal more mechanically minded than me! I have no garage/driveway and certainly no jig so the option of doing that stuff to it is sadly out of the question, even if I knew what honing was and how to do it to a bush...
I will print this off and show it to my garage man and see what we can do..he's a decent chap, fortunately - he lets me work on my car alongside him so I can learn more! just got to overlook the fact that he often is closed for a time, and frequently sports an electronic tag...
filmidget said:
minimax said:
...I have no garage/driveway and certainly no jig so the option of doing that stuff to it is sadly out of the question...
Perhaps it's a good idea I didn't mention that I also possess a double garage, and an engine hoist, in our earlier conversation.
Oh bugger...
don't worry chap, I wouldn't even know where to begin with what to do to take an engine out although I dare say I could work it out if really pressed, even if you had mentioned about the hoist i'd have been too polite to ask anyway!
I don't have any facilities at all, I guess I was just biding my time until something farked up, after all they always do on minis!
>> Edited by minimax on Wednesday 30th March 20:29
Hold on a minute, you had the output seals changed and now its leaking like crazy!! I think its best to back track to locate the problem. Who did the repair? where exactly is the oil coming from
1 output shaft seals
2 diff joint
3 output flange joint
4 crack in casing
5 other area not yet suspected
6 question? if it was ok before your repair, why is it leaking now? what has been disturbed? is it related? find the anwers to these questions before you part with your hard earned cash!!
Clean the car/engine let it stand and then insoect it if ok run engine but do not drive, then inspect again, if still no leak found, drive short distance then inspect again if still no leak found go to the pub for a few, and you will definately find a leak
1 output shaft seals
2 diff joint
3 output flange joint
4 crack in casing
5 other area not yet suspected
6 question? if it was ok before your repair, why is it leaking now? what has been disturbed? is it related? find the anwers to these questions before you part with your hard earned cash!!
Clean the car/engine let it stand and then insoect it if ok run engine but do not drive, then inspect again, if still no leak found, drive short distance then inspect again if still no leak found go to the pub for a few, and you will definately find a leak
Or...
1. Buy a 1300 metro engine and box from a fellow PHer for a very reasonable amount
2. Drop the 'box to the car to get the car back on the road as quickly as possible, complete with engine, or
3. Use the engine as a sound base to build a decent little 1380 motor...
Fellow PHer also forgot to mention that his F-in-L was also a Rover mechanic for about 15 years and can rebuild Mini/Metro gearboxes in his sleep (well, probably) given the right incentive...
1. Buy a 1300 metro engine and box from a fellow PHer for a very reasonable amount
2. Drop the 'box to the car to get the car back on the road as quickly as possible, complete with engine, or
3. Use the engine as a sound base to build a decent little 1380 motor...
Fellow PHer also forgot to mention that his F-in-L was also a Rover mechanic for about 15 years
and can rebuild Mini/Metro gearboxes in his sleep (well, probably) given the right incentive... Gassing Station | Classic Minis | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff