Classic Mini Cooper differences ?
Discussion
Hi All,
just after some information.....I have seen various classic mini's for sale and am drawn to the later models 1998-2000.
Some look skinny versions with the 1275 engine and others look to have wider alloys and arches and have 1.3i engine.
What are the differences and why?
Which ones are more desirable?
My son wants one as his first car....he is only 13 at the moment and I'm thinking tuck one away for him and a bit of investment too?????
IceBoy
just after some information.....I have seen various classic mini's for sale and am drawn to the later models 1998-2000.
Some look skinny versions with the 1275 engine and others look to have wider alloys and arches and have 1.3i engine.
What are the differences and why?
Which ones are more desirable?
My son wants one as his first car....he is only 13 at the moment and I'm thinking tuck one away for him and a bit of investment too?????
IceBoy
Differences I think were mainly minor for most of the Mini's entire run. I'd probably buy on condition rather than anything else. As it's easy enough to tweak them and hot them up.
The big arch Mini's and fat tyres look cool, but by all accounts they drive and handle better on the smaller narrower tyres. 10" probably the best, but obviously restricts other options.
The big arch Mini's and fat tyres look cool, but by all accounts they drive and handle better on the smaller narrower tyres. 10" probably the best, but obviously restricts other options.
the earlier injected coopers were only single point injection - it's like a stripped out carb with an injector on top. i think they did these from 1991 and these never came in sport pack. They still have the basic austin seats and no airbags.
the later injected coopers are multipoint injection which is far more reliable and have a much better interior. these are the ones to go for.
they all use the same a series engine and mechanicals though
the later injected coopers are multipoint injection which is far more reliable and have a much better interior. these are the ones to go for.
they all use the same a series engine and mechanicals though
nitrodave said:
the earlier injected coopers were only single point injection - it's like a stripped out carb with an injector on top. i think they did these from 1991 and these never came in sport pack. They still have the basic austin seats and no airbags.
the later injected coopers are multipoint injection which is far more reliable and have a much better interior. these are the ones to go for.
they all use the same a series engine and mechanicals though
the later injected coopers are multipoint injection which is far more reliable and have a much better interior. these are the ones to go for.
they all use the same a series engine and mechanicals though
Not quite true...
From '88 on they are all "Rover" Minis. 1.3i = 1275cc.
Earliest Coopers = RSP (Rover special products). Carb. Or Carbs if tinkled with by John Cooper garages. No airbag. Seats adapted from Mk3 - with headrest. Half leather interior. '89-90. These are the investment. Find one if you can.
Spi - Single point Injection. 12" wheels. Airbags. Seats adapted from Rover Metro. '91-96. Rot like pears. These aren't the ones to go for.
Mpi - Multi point (or 2x injector). 12 & 13" Wheel options. Airbags, Door intrusion beams. Long gearing to pass drive by noise regs. Not much fun. '96-2001. Rot like pears. These aren't the ones to go for either.
If you are considering tucking one away (Later car) - don't be entirely surprised if it has regressed to nature come his 17th Birthday.
Buy a pre 89 car - made of much better steel - buy on body condition. Get one with 10" wheels if possible - 12" introduced in '84. Even a 998cc car (ideal for 1st insurance) on 10" wheels will be more fun than a late MPi. And certainly less rust prone.
Edited by FWDRacer on Friday 23 October 14:57
Rover Mini started with the 1990 RSP carburettor version, which had the old style dash pod to the side, and seats with single stem headrests, and the original body style with a side mounted radiator etc. They weren't that nice, and like most things with John Cooper name on, are overvalued, but this car was to re-introduce the Cooper, limited to 1500 cars or something.
The SPI single point injection Mini came as 53hp sprite or standard type models or whatever version, but the Cooper was 63hp, and it had a similar interior to the RSP until 1993, when it was changed to a wood dash and much better twin stem headrest Sports seats and no airbags. Bear in mind they didn't need catalytic convertors until August 1992, and the SPI Cooper was made from 1991, and was sought after for the Mini Challenge, or a good base car to modify as the emissions mattered less, tested as per carburetted cars. The SPI Mini Cooper had two cooling fans, fixed, and electric, either side of the side mounted radiator.
All Mini's with the original side mounted radiator and A series engine variant had to be registered by 30th September 1996, and they were replaced by a highly altered car in order to be allowed to continue production, due to new emission controls, including noise.
From here on, the Mini wasn't able to have a towbar fitted.
The new car had side impact bars, airbags, twin point injection, not like twin carb's, as there was only a single throttle body, but two injectors, wasted spark ignition, a front mounted radiator with one electric fan, a closed off n/s inner wing, and a 2.9:1 final drive which gave the car it's top speed in third gear. Most importantly it didn't have an A series block, it had no distributor, the camshaft had a take off point for a cam position sensor instead of the geared type previously, and the oil filter housing went, along with the oil feed pipe from the top of the block, in favour of a front mounted screw on filter. The cylinder head was redsigned to accommodate the top mounting for the alternator. The drive belt was now poly 'v' rather than 'v'.
The car was available later than planned. It was available as a Cooper with 12" wheels, standard versions or specials like the Seven, and Classic edition paint schemes and interiors as options. The Cooper was available as a Sports Pack, or as a Cooper Sport. The spec of both was the same. One was able to be ordered after build, where the other was ordered and built. Many people disagree with this, but they don't know, and any owner with one won't or wouldn't want to know, they all have a Cooper Sport, but most were referred to as Sports Packs.
There were tiny differences, but the main one was the front edge of the front wings behind the arches, were either nibbled away on a Pack, or smooth cut on a Sport. We used to be able to check the true identity of the model on a system called Discus, nearly all owners had a Sport Pack, which could even be converted as a kit at the dealer. The twin point Cooper Sport or Sportpack had 13" wheels, and looked nice to many, but really was just too high, and over tyred, with tyres too wide for the body, too slow, heavier, and couldn't be tuned, as unfortunately, the emissions requirements for testing, also were reduced.
The car to have, was always the single point injection Cooper.
John Cooper conversions are worshipped by owners of them and typical 'customers' who saw more in them than there was. If you actually had access to the John Cooper brochures and product range, there were some nice conversions, but not really for the later cars, not as good as what you 'could' have had. If ordered new, you got JCW buying a new car, registering it to themselves, and fitting a cylinder head, fitting high lift roller tip rockers, and a cat back exhaust. Then changing the car to say Si on the boot.
The tuning parts, in contrast to history, were not made by them at all, but still were fitted there, and you did get a certificate haha.
Rover parts fiche used to show the SPI Cooper engine and certain cars gearbox's as a heavy duty version. The MPI had many warranty gearbox problems.
I bought one of the last MPI Cooper Sports before the BMW takeover, in Tahiti blue, with full black leather, it looked lovely, and was to be kept. I still have my SPI Cooper 35th Anniversary which I bought new. It'd get to 100 and back before the MPI got to 100.
But then SPI could be tuned. Of course the MPI can be now, but back then not very well. If you get one change the final drive first.
Just my2p
My 35SE was for sale, but stored last ten years. It's nice to go and look at it, open the door to see inside, open the bonnet etc.
The SPI single point injection Mini came as 53hp sprite or standard type models or whatever version, but the Cooper was 63hp, and it had a similar interior to the RSP until 1993, when it was changed to a wood dash and much better twin stem headrest Sports seats and no airbags. Bear in mind they didn't need catalytic convertors until August 1992, and the SPI Cooper was made from 1991, and was sought after for the Mini Challenge, or a good base car to modify as the emissions mattered less, tested as per carburetted cars. The SPI Mini Cooper had two cooling fans, fixed, and electric, either side of the side mounted radiator.
All Mini's with the original side mounted radiator and A series engine variant had to be registered by 30th September 1996, and they were replaced by a highly altered car in order to be allowed to continue production, due to new emission controls, including noise.
From here on, the Mini wasn't able to have a towbar fitted.
The new car had side impact bars, airbags, twin point injection, not like twin carb's, as there was only a single throttle body, but two injectors, wasted spark ignition, a front mounted radiator with one electric fan, a closed off n/s inner wing, and a 2.9:1 final drive which gave the car it's top speed in third gear. Most importantly it didn't have an A series block, it had no distributor, the camshaft had a take off point for a cam position sensor instead of the geared type previously, and the oil filter housing went, along with the oil feed pipe from the top of the block, in favour of a front mounted screw on filter. The cylinder head was redsigned to accommodate the top mounting for the alternator. The drive belt was now poly 'v' rather than 'v'.
The car was available later than planned. It was available as a Cooper with 12" wheels, standard versions or specials like the Seven, and Classic edition paint schemes and interiors as options. The Cooper was available as a Sports Pack, or as a Cooper Sport. The spec of both was the same. One was able to be ordered after build, where the other was ordered and built. Many people disagree with this, but they don't know, and any owner with one won't or wouldn't want to know, they all have a Cooper Sport, but most were referred to as Sports Packs.
There were tiny differences, but the main one was the front edge of the front wings behind the arches, were either nibbled away on a Pack, or smooth cut on a Sport. We used to be able to check the true identity of the model on a system called Discus, nearly all owners had a Sport Pack, which could even be converted as a kit at the dealer. The twin point Cooper Sport or Sportpack had 13" wheels, and looked nice to many, but really was just too high, and over tyred, with tyres too wide for the body, too slow, heavier, and couldn't be tuned, as unfortunately, the emissions requirements for testing, also were reduced.
The car to have, was always the single point injection Cooper.
John Cooper conversions are worshipped by owners of them and typical 'customers' who saw more in them than there was. If you actually had access to the John Cooper brochures and product range, there were some nice conversions, but not really for the later cars, not as good as what you 'could' have had. If ordered new, you got JCW buying a new car, registering it to themselves, and fitting a cylinder head, fitting high lift roller tip rockers, and a cat back exhaust. Then changing the car to say Si on the boot.
The tuning parts, in contrast to history, were not made by them at all, but still were fitted there, and you did get a certificate haha.
Rover parts fiche used to show the SPI Cooper engine and certain cars gearbox's as a heavy duty version. The MPI had many warranty gearbox problems.
I bought one of the last MPI Cooper Sports before the BMW takeover, in Tahiti blue, with full black leather, it looked lovely, and was to be kept. I still have my SPI Cooper 35th Anniversary which I bought new. It'd get to 100 and back before the MPI got to 100.
But then SPI could be tuned. Of course the MPI can be now, but back then not very well. If you get one change the final drive first.
Just my2p
My 35SE was for sale, but stored last ten years. It's nice to go and look at it, open the door to see inside, open the bonnet etc.
CarsOrBikes said:
The car to have, was always the single point injection Cooper.
...It'd get to 100 and back before the MPI got to 100.
...It'd get to 100 and back before the MPI got to 100.
Talking up the value of the SPi. Most are now well on the way to being junk. The bodies are made of recycled japanese sheet steel that was purchased at knock down rate by an increasingly desperate Rover purchase organisation. The Injection systems are great when working. Try diagnosing one if it goes down - you'll want to take your own life. Give Mini enthusiasts the simplicity of the HIF carb (on the RSP and Early Carb Coopers) any day. The limited number (1000 RSP's) gives the value, not John Cooper's signature on the bonnet stripe. These cars allowed the re-birth of the Mondern Mini Cooper in all later - Carb/SPi/MPi forms.
Keep enjoying walking into the garage and looking at yours
Edited by FWDRacer on Monday 26th October 10:07
I agree with mpi's rotting like pears, after stripping the wife's 2000 car down in to a bare shell in 2009 I was amazed at the places it was rusty. Ended up getting a heritage shell as it was cheaper than doing all the work needed, which in doing so it would of been like triggers broom. How ever what we are doing isn't cheap and we are only doing so as she wants to keep the car for a very long time
They're all destined to rot aren't they?
Like talking up the value of the RSP? Which was the beginning of the return of the Cooper, most people buy a Mini for the Cooper name, back then or now, they see something in that as value, or that the car is different in some way, thanks to John Cooper. Actually I have some memory the Racing Green may have been the start of Coopers return, as JCG did the tuning kit at the same time didn't they? Anyway, too long ago.
You or I can't change the fact people will pay for a nice looking Mini, the SPI was better trimmed than the RSP and had an injector stuck on it, at least it was closer to it in design, and the original, than the twin point, but that was forced upon them as a stop gap until the new car.
I think they should still be made, no worse than a current micro car.
Mine never went wrong in nineteen years aside from an immobiliser fault once, the injection won't be a problem, it was temperamental before 94 iirc, I have 8 or so new injector assemblies from the production line, a couple of engine looms and a new body loom, gearbox case and covers etc, so it won't cause me an issue. Rust will, but same with all. It's on SU's anyway at the moment, and not used any more either, so not a concern particularly, it was one of 200, and I'd buy one again if they still made them, brilliant.
The later Mini was always resented by the early car crowd, just like the new Mini isn't seen as a 'real Mini' but not many care now
Like talking up the value of the RSP? Which was the beginning of the return of the Cooper, most people buy a Mini for the Cooper name, back then or now, they see something in that as value, or that the car is different in some way, thanks to John Cooper. Actually I have some memory the Racing Green may have been the start of Coopers return, as JCG did the tuning kit at the same time didn't they? Anyway, too long ago.
You or I can't change the fact people will pay for a nice looking Mini, the SPI was better trimmed than the RSP and had an injector stuck on it, at least it was closer to it in design, and the original, than the twin point, but that was forced upon them as a stop gap until the new car.
I think they should still be made, no worse than a current micro car.
Mine never went wrong in nineteen years aside from an immobiliser fault once, the injection won't be a problem, it was temperamental before 94 iirc, I have 8 or so new injector assemblies from the production line, a couple of engine looms and a new body loom, gearbox case and covers etc, so it won't cause me an issue. Rust will, but same with all. It's on SU's anyway at the moment, and not used any more either, so not a concern particularly, it was one of 200, and I'd buy one again if they still made them, brilliant.
The later Mini was always resented by the early car crowd, just like the new Mini isn't seen as a 'real Mini' but not many care now
FWDRacer said:
nitrodave said:
the earlier injected coopers were only single point injection - it's like a stripped out carb with an injector on top. i think they did these from 1991 and these never came in sport pack. They still have the basic austin seats and no airbags.
the later injected coopers are multipoint injection which is far more reliable and have a much better interior. these are the ones to go for.
they all use the same a series engine and mechanicals though
the later injected coopers are multipoint injection which is far more reliable and have a much better interior. these are the ones to go for.
they all use the same a series engine and mechanicals though
Not quite true...
From '88 on they are all "Rover" Minis. 1.3i = 1275cc.
Earliest Coopers = RSP (Rover special products). Carb. Or Carbs if tinkled with by John Cooper garages. No airbag. Seats adapted from Mk3 - with headrest. Half leather interior. '89-90. These are the investment. Find one if you can.
Oringal Release Production Cooper
Spi - Single point Injection. 12" wheels. Airbags. Seats adapted from Rover Metro. '91-96. Rot like pears. These aren't the ones to go for.
Mpi - Multi point (or 2x injector). 12 & 13" Wheel options. Airbags, Door intrusion beams. Long gearing to pass drive by noise regs. Not much fun. '96-2001. Rot like pears. These aren't the ones to go for either.
If you are considering tucking one away (Later car) - don't be entirely surprised if it has regressed to nature come his 17th Birthday.
Buy a pre 89 car - made of much better steel - buy on body condition. Get one with 10" wheels if possible - 12" introduced in '84. Even a 998cc car (ideal for 1st insurance) on 10" wheels will be more fun than a late MPi. And certainly less rust prone.
Edited by FWDRacer on Friday 23 October 14:57
Inital production run coopers were introduced Sept 89- Sept 91 (G-J) following sucess of RSP's - 1275, Single SU Carb with "Mini Cooper" logo moulded onto intake trunking, with bonnet stripes no spots as standard, interior Standard "BL" Three Gauge Pack with blue grey backing, original 80's mini seats in "Racing Crayon" full cloth seats, black carpets. Sold in Red, Green or Black with White. Mini Cooper Rosette on boot lid.
MInis?
They're all rotten/have been rotten. the newer the car, the worse the rust. The multi point injection system was an awful set up that was riddled with problems when new (seen a few melted looms) and being the age they are, need a working catalyst.
Going back to an SU carb is a bit rubbish, and the single point injection was a good set up - it was based on the regular 1275 engine (the later ones wasn't) and was pretty reliable with decent economy. Go for a J plater and there's no cat test although I believe cars up to late 1994 can be scraped through an MOT on emissions.
The Sportpack was horrible to drive and they wear balljoints out for fun. The standard SPI Cooper was about as good as they got. I don't buy the recycled steel line. They were made from the same steel as anything else made in the UK, but there was zero rustproofing and the underside/underwing areas were just primer with the lightest dusting of paint. Minis were always rust buckets! I was told by a Longbridge bloke that Rover reduced the number of spot welds around the screen aperture to save money but resulted in a horrendous moisture trap.
I had two Mark 1 Cooper S's but view Minis now as an expensive arseache. They always need something doing - chasing rust, oil leaks, s
tty Lucas spade connectors and crap like that. Great when they were £600 but the prices asked (and paid) for the things is questionable now.
They're all rotten/have been rotten. the newer the car, the worse the rust. The multi point injection system was an awful set up that was riddled with problems when new (seen a few melted looms) and being the age they are, need a working catalyst.
Going back to an SU carb is a bit rubbish, and the single point injection was a good set up - it was based on the regular 1275 engine (the later ones wasn't) and was pretty reliable with decent economy. Go for a J plater and there's no cat test although I believe cars up to late 1994 can be scraped through an MOT on emissions.
The Sportpack was horrible to drive and they wear balljoints out for fun. The standard SPI Cooper was about as good as they got. I don't buy the recycled steel line. They were made from the same steel as anything else made in the UK, but there was zero rustproofing and the underside/underwing areas were just primer with the lightest dusting of paint. Minis were always rust buckets! I was told by a Longbridge bloke that Rover reduced the number of spot welds around the screen aperture to save money but resulted in a horrendous moisture trap.
I had two Mark 1 Cooper S's but view Minis now as an expensive arseache. They always need something doing - chasing rust, oil leaks, s
tty Lucas spade connectors and crap like that. Great when they were £600 but the prices asked (and paid) for the things is questionable now.Edited by iSore on Monday 28th December 21:03
Where you want really,
Wider better seats, with twin post headrests, positioned so your right shoulder isn't pinned against the seat belt mount, twin cooling fans, better dash than the early car, better performance than the later car, different people like all of them for different reasons I suppose, better storage than the later car, shorter diff than the later car, airbag free etc.
Wider better seats, with twin post headrests, positioned so your right shoulder isn't pinned against the seat belt mount, twin cooling fans, better dash than the early car, better performance than the later car, different people like all of them for different reasons I suppose, better storage than the later car, shorter diff than the later car, airbag free etc.
I had a 1986 mini Mayfair 998 for my first car. Absolutely loved it at 17. I fitted a sports pack and 13" wheels which looked good and got a much better response than my mates cars being the normal corsa' sand ka's etc.
10 years on and I've just brought myself a 1974 mini pickup on 10" wheels and a 1275 GT engine as bit of an investment to enjoy. Absolute hoot to drive and looks great.
10 years on and I've just brought myself a 1974 mini pickup on 10" wheels and a 1275 GT engine as bit of an investment to enjoy. Absolute hoot to drive and looks great.
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