FIA mk1 build

[lewis1]

Hi guys,

I have a 1964 850 that is currently in a state of dis repair. Originally I was planning to build it back up into a standard car with period mods, however my racing background is taking over. Im mechanically very competant and work on race cars as a career however im struggling slightly with choices for modifications and what I will actually need to be competitive in a classis touring car series.

anyone who has built/is building an appendix K car that could spare there time to help me would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks

Lewis

[Cooperman]

What engine capacity class are you going for?
It seems as though if running at 1293 cc the competitive guys run a Swiftune engine & transmission.
If running sub-1000 cc a 970 'S' engine is needed.

[lewis1]

Will be running in the 1293 class i would imagine. That is the only part I really know other people use.

[Furyblade_Lee]

Talk to Swiftune, and I hope you have VERY deep pockets to build a complete compettetive Appendix K car!! This is only hearsay, but I have heard an appendix K engine could cost 10k. But I have also heard they can cost over 20k! You have to be very strict with components, and some donor component are now like rocking horse poo. Sounds like a great project though. I have access to a '59 shell if I want it, but I know I could not do it justice without selling a few toys to pay for it all.

[Cooperman]

Apparently the price for a competitive Group 2 Appendix K Historic 1293 engine with a guaranteed 125 bhp at the flywheel is c.22000 inc. transmission. That is what the winning cars are running.

[Furyblade_Lee]

That is a pretty fearsome price!!!!

[GingerWizard]

Cooperman said:

Apparently the price for a competitive Group 2 Appendix K Historic 1293 engine with a guaranteed 125 bhp at the flywheel is c.22000 inc. transmission. That is what the winning cars are running.

whats the warrenty on them? 100miles? with no mis shifts and a limiter installed?

For 22k I could definatly buy the tools to build my own engines, sourcing the major parts (block, crank etc). I'm staggered by the price tbh. Are they running steel blocks? where does the money go?

[cptsideways]

A friend of mine has recently completely one of these, he's had it for years. he builds racecars & engines for a living & reckons he's about 60k in it.

[Furyblade_Lee]

I struggle to see the cost. Granted Cooper S bits are horrifically expensive even if you can find them, things like 1275 S blocks with removable tappet chest covers. So they now allow "lesser " pre-A series blocks to be used. But considering I would imagine they envisage to keep cars close to 60's spec as possible, that £22k screams specialised tooling, machining and components to me. I would love to see a breakdown of what costs what in an engine.

My mini came a Swiftune 1380 in it, which makes 120bhp with a DCOE Webber, I am PETRIFIED of it breaking now!!!

[Cooperman]

If ou look on the Swiftune website, you'll see the stuff that goes into the FIA Group 2 Cooper 'S' engines. Just look at the price of pistons and rods that will take those sort of revs sustained. Then there is the new steel crank, full flowed head, special valves, full competition drive train, all that specialised machining to the highest accuracy. Add in probably 3 trial builds to check and measure everything and lablor at, maybe, £100 per hour and it soon adds up.
Apparently he guarantees 125 bhp and compliance with FIA scrutineering regulations. With such an engine you could win.

[camelotr]

I dont want to argue with You Cooperman, but it is still not clear for me. Never mind, mats was never my strongest side.

-A series donor engine - 300
-Special crankshaft (lightened, balanced, x drilled etc MED or Swiftune)- 1500
-Omega forged pistons 450
-Good cylinder head (MED, Slark, Swiftune) 1500-2000
-rods (crack tested, balanced, lightened) You can only use std rods according to the homologation. 200
-camshaft, followers 350
-lightened flywheel + clutch 500-600
-sc drop gears (roller) 450
-3 syncro donor gearbox 300
-3 syncro sc/cr gearset 450
-bearings syncros etc 300
-x pin diff+semi helical final drive 700
-ancillaries 1500

10.000 at worst case + work

Or there is an alternative way: buy a used and proven engine and rebuild it. This is what we did and managed to keep the costs below 5000 including all work (although the rebuild was not done by MED or any other super-pro team soo it is not the best comparision - we are hoping the best)

[guru_1071]

the money goes on the knowledge that your paying a top engine builder to supply a tested engine thats guranteeded to produce the power

anyone can 'throw together' an engine, but how many blowups do you need to have at a top level of motorsport before the cost of the engine doesnt matter

[camelotr]

I understand this completely.
Only find 120 hours a bit too much for an engine/gearbox build be it absolutly perfect (for 100 pounds/h).
I might be wrong though.

Everything is worth what people are willing to pay for it. And if they have customers at this price, I think they are on the right track.