Subframe mounts

[anonymous-user]

So first of all the current ones are pretty shod. Rock like Elvis in his prime thus making the paintwork crack under the front window.
My options are replacement budget ones like the ones that are fitted - Now they should hold out for a while and stop the paint cracking right?

And also full solid 'race' ones - These stop all subframe rocking but are harsh on the floor and general road use. Or I've heard

Any advice or experiences to share with me please?

[Cooperman]

It's a myth that the solid ones are too harsh.
The rubber mounts were introduced in an effort to make the car softer for the target market of the lady driver in the 80's (or whenever). By then the performance image of the car had largely gone, and young men were tending to go for more modern vehicles, so young to middle-aged women were targetted by BLMC sales. Take a look at the advertising from that period.
All Mk.1 & Mk.2 cars, including all the Coopers and Cooper 'S's had solidly bolted-in front sub-frames as standard, so it's not at all a competition modification..
Fit solids and you'll notice the much improved steering response and road holding.

[camelotr]

I agree with Cooperman. The only downside is a bit more suspension noise, but nothing will crack of fall apart solely because of the solid mounts.

[guru_1071]

Cooperman said:

target market of the lady driver in their 80's .

i thought that was YOUR target market peter?

[Cooperman]

guru_1071 said:

i thought that was YOUR target market peter?

If only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nick1275]

on my car (track/fast road) i use solid top and front with, std rears its not too bad at all

[Cooperman]

You should fit them all round if at all, otherwise the dynamic loads are only going through some of the mountings, not all of them as designed. If only front & top are fitted solid, most of the fore & aft loads just go through the fronts which are not really strong enough.

[anonymous-user]

Cheers guys, I'll order some on the weekend.
£40 for a kit

[Biggelmo]

Hi my Mini is set up as follows....
Standard 12x4 1/2 steel wheels with 165/60x12 Yokohama A539 tyres.
Solid top and lower font subframe mounts
+1.5 Degree bottom arms
Heavy duty adjustable tierods
Tracking set paralell
Standard front cones,Smooth-a-ride rear cones (too soft)
Gaz dampers
Adjustable rear brackets set at 3/4 Degree negative camber
Toe in set with a straight edge on a bare standard steel wheel to touch the sill 150mm behind the A panel (crude but works)
Poly bushes on rear subframe mounts
Hi-Los set low (need winding up due to settlement).

The steering is very responsive but the rear toe-in makes it stable in a straight line.

[guru_1071]

Biggelmo said:

Hi my Mini is set up as follows....
Standard 12x4 1/2 steel wheels with 165/60x12 Yokohama A539 tyres.
Solid top and lower font subframe mounts
+1.5 Degree bottom arms
Heavy duty adjustable tierods
Tracking set paralell
Standard front cones,Smooth-a-ride rear cones (too soft)
Gaz dampers
Adjustable rear brackets set at 3/4 Degree negative camber
Toe in set with a straight edge on a bare standard steel wheel to touch the sill 150mm behind the A panel (crude but works)
Poly bushes on rear subframe mounts
Hi-Los set low (need winding up due to settlement).

The steering is very responsive but the rear toe-in makes it stable in a straight line.

a few things that you should think about,

1) the tracking should be set so that the wheels toe out, this is, in part because the driven wheels will 'pull' themselves in when power is transmitted through them, setting them paralell means that the you will be scrubbing the tyres. there is also no way that you can set the tracking by measuring back to the sill, unless the thrust line is very acuratley calculated you are, at best, pissing in the wind. the production tolarance of a mini body shell is +/- 1/8", so you would need to take this into account when (trying) to set the tracking this way. i bet if you checked on a set of guages (or even using a bit of string around all four wheels) you will out but a huge ammount.

just out of interest, how much castor are you running?

also, 3/4 degree negative at the rear is far to much

[Cooperman]

The production tolerances side-to-side are such that tracking in thisn way is very inaccurate. You can do the tracking yourself and what you need are two pieces of wood about 2" x 2" and 7 ft long.
Get 4 milk crates and drive the car forward until it is going absolutely straight ahead. Set the pieces of wood across the horizontal centre-line of the wheels just touching the tyre walls on each side. For best accuracy, measure from the inside edge of the wood to the outside edge of the rim at each side to check that it's the same. Now measure 2 ft forward from each wheel centre and make a mark on the wood. Measure a further 3 ft on each side and make another mark. Now accurately measure across the inside faces of the wood at the 2 ft and 5 ft marks. If it's tracking correctly, 1/16" toe-out in 'old money', or 1.5 mm, across the 12" rim diameter, the difference between the two measurements across the wood will be 3/16" or 4.5 mm greater at the furthest marks as the marks are 3 x 12" apart. Repeat this a couple of times and take the average. It's quite an accurate way to do it, but very 'pre-war' in method.

[Steffan]

Cooperman said:

It's quite an accurate way to do it, but very 'pre-war' in method.

Is that First World War or Second World War?

Good advice anyway,

[Biggelmo]

Just to clarify a few things......
After 2000 miles of road use the front tyres are showing no wear with the tracking set as it is.
The rear toe-in was set with the straight edge measured to the sills not the front wheel tracking.
The rear camber setting was decided on after much on-line research,book reading and talking to Mini racers,their advice was to set between 1/2 and 3/4 degree negative camber and that over 3/4 would be too much for the road.
The car is great fun to drive,has great straight line stability and is very responsive,
It does not pull to either side under acceleration or braking and does not crab.

Basically I set it up myself how I wanted it and I love it !

[anonymous-user]

Since fitting them the car seems a lot more 'solid'
Still get the tyre hopping if I turn too fast though. Any idea how to lessen this? Maybe change the camber?

It sort of goes beyond the level of grip a bit too easy and then sometimes has a little hop to the right or left depending on which way I'm turning.

[guru_1071]

Biggelmo said:

Just to clarify a few things......
After 2000 miles of road use the front tyres are showing no wear with the tracking set as it is.
The rear toe-in was set with the straight edge measured to the sills not the front wheel tracking.
The rear camber setting was decided on after much on-line research,book reading and talking to Mini racers,their advice was to set between 1/2 and 3/4 degree negative camber and that over 3/4 would be too much for the road.
The car is great fun to drive,has great straight line stability and is very responsive,
It does not pull to either side under acceleration or braking and does not crab.

Basically I set it up myself how I wanted it and I love it !

i would still put money on you been very surprised how 'out' the measurements would be if you put a set of gauges on it.

also dont forget that the settings that many racers use are for the track, often using a cross-ply type tyre, or, if using radials, an aceptance of tyre wear that would horrify most road users - my race car would destroy its tyres in 20 minuites of hard use - but this was considered an acceptable trade for the limit of grip that the settings allowed.

its also impossible to use the sill line as a datum point for setting either the front or rear toe - you just cannot rely on the sills been welded on to the accuraccy required


still, what do i know...........