Newly Acquired Early Clubman
Discussion
New to this part of the forum but thought I'd share my sons recent acquisition and ask a few questions if I may as I'm not really too familar with Minis
The car is, we believe, a very early clubman. It was first registered in April 1970 which I think puts it in the first yr of production. It was a one owner car from new until earlier this yr so appears entirely original. The interior is in amazing condition - shame the same can't be said of the paint! It has the early toggle switches on the dash rather than the rockers which I'm told marks it out as an early one.
After an oil change and removal of the effectively blocked air cleaner it really runs quite well considering it had only done around 50 miles in the last yr.
There are 2 areas where I would value some advice.
The gear selection is very much of the 'there's one in here somewhere' school. All the gears do select but to say its vague would be an understatement. Whilst I accept that it will never be a precision instrument I imagine it could be improved considerably - is it a matter of a simple re bushing exercise or is it more involved than that?
The speedo only operates when the car is cold, once warmed up it stops working. Obviously not a snapped cable as it does work sometimes so I assume something to do with the drive gears at the gearbox end. Is this a simple replacement exercise?
The plan is to run the car as it is for a while to iron out any more mechanical issues before we embark on a sympathetic restoration and sort out the bodywork.
As my son has only just turned 17 and hasn't passed his test yet we have a while to sort things out but he is already looking forward to the joys of classic Mini motoring!
ETA - Which of the specialist Mini forums would you suggest is best for this type of vehicle?
The car is, we believe, a very early clubman. It was first registered in April 1970 which I think puts it in the first yr of production. It was a one owner car from new until earlier this yr so appears entirely original. The interior is in amazing condition - shame the same can't be said of the paint! It has the early toggle switches on the dash rather than the rockers which I'm told marks it out as an early one.
After an oil change and removal of the effectively blocked air cleaner it really runs quite well considering it had only done around 50 miles in the last yr.
There are 2 areas where I would value some advice.
The gear selection is very much of the 'there's one in here somewhere' school. All the gears do select but to say its vague would be an understatement. Whilst I accept that it will never be a precision instrument I imagine it could be improved considerably - is it a matter of a simple re bushing exercise or is it more involved than that?
The speedo only operates when the car is cold, once warmed up it stops working. Obviously not a snapped cable as it does work sometimes so I assume something to do with the drive gears at the gearbox end. Is this a simple replacement exercise?
The plan is to run the car as it is for a while to iron out any more mechanical issues before we embark on a sympathetic restoration and sort out the bodywork.
As my son has only just turned 17 and hasn't passed his test yet we have a while to sort things out but he is already looking forward to the joys of classic Mini motoring!
ETA - Which of the specialist Mini forums would you suggest is best for this type of vehicle?
Edited by Dunelm Alumnus on Monday 19th September 09:59
The best forum would be....
http://mk1-forum.net/index.php
Despite the name, there's plenty of love for stuff like this. There's also an early Mini forum.
Yours is Aqua, and H is the first registration letter. They came out in late 1969 and were built alongside the last Mark 11's at Longbridge and use Hydrolastic. Toggle switches lasted until early 1971, and the ignition/steering lock arrived a bit later (mid '71 iirc).
These early Clubmans and GT's are starting to attract a bit of interest now, and are well worth preserving. A good one is great to drive.
The gearlinkage issue is probably the 1/2" pinch bolts on the selector linkabe needing a tighten - look down the back of the engine and with someone waggling the gearlever, you'll see them. One male, one female. Give these and goodly nip up and it should be much better.
http://mk1-forum.net/index.php
Despite the name, there's plenty of love for stuff like this. There's also an early Mini forum.
Yours is Aqua, and H is the first registration letter. They came out in late 1969 and were built alongside the last Mark 11's at Longbridge and use Hydrolastic. Toggle switches lasted until early 1971, and the ignition/steering lock arrived a bit later (mid '71 iirc).
These early Clubmans and GT's are starting to attract a bit of interest now, and are well worth preserving. A good one is great to drive.
The gearlinkage issue is probably the 1/2" pinch bolts on the selector linkabe needing a tighten - look down the back of the engine and with someone waggling the gearlever, you'll see them. One male, one female. Give these and goodly nip up and it should be much better.
you can date a very early clubman by looking at the bonnet hinges, they will bolt into (i.e with bolts) the bonnet, rather than across (i.e a nut on a stud thats welded to the bonnet hinge. only the very first had these (as did early mk3 round fronts)
they will also have a full skin boot lid, like a mk2, but with a mk3 outer pressing.
they may also by on hydro.
the wear in the gearlever may be the two bronze bushes in the back of the case, if you peer down the back of the engine and get someone to waggle the lever you may see the shaft flopping around - its an engine out job to sort, but there is a grease nipple, so you can fill it up with grease (in situ) which will help a lot.
also, if the wear is just in the lever, rather than any of the shafts, there is a little plastic bush which pushes onto it, its a cheap simple job to swop it (and solves the buzzing noise the stick makes at speed)
the speedo may be the plastic speedo drive cog slipping on its metal shaft, the only way to fix this is to swop it for a new one - they do this was once they get warm the spin on the shaft (they are glued on when new)
nice little car - its good to see that people are starting to appreciate the early clubbies
they will also have a full skin boot lid, like a mk2, but with a mk3 outer pressing.
they may also by on hydro.
the wear in the gearlever may be the two bronze bushes in the back of the case, if you peer down the back of the engine and get someone to waggle the lever you may see the shaft flopping around - its an engine out job to sort, but there is a grease nipple, so you can fill it up with grease (in situ) which will help a lot.
also, if the wear is just in the lever, rather than any of the shafts, there is a little plastic bush which pushes onto it, its a cheap simple job to swop it (and solves the buzzing noise the stick makes at speed)
the speedo may be the plastic speedo drive cog slipping on its metal shaft, the only way to fix this is to swop it for a new one - they do this was once they get warm the spin on the shaft (they are glued on when new)
nice little car - its good to see that people are starting to appreciate the early clubbies
Thank you both for taking the time to respond.
I did 60 miles in it yesterday and it performed excellently if it did struggle to keep up a bit. I didn't want to push things too much at this stage so didn't get above 50 mph but what would the realistic 'cruising speed' of one of these be?
Touring - will have a look at the forum when I get a bit more spare time. For the gear shift I shall get my son on wiggling duty and see what we can see. I suspect we may need to remove the 40 yrs of accumulated gunge before we can see anything though! Are the pinch bolts accessable from above or is it a ramp job?
guru - the bonnet is the later type you describe and further investigation of commission/chassis numbers suggests its around the 9000th built. I would imagine this puts its build date fairly close to its registration date of April 70, it is on hydro though and rides very nicely. Not sure about the boot, there is an inner frame with 2 triangular and one trapezoid cut out and the skin appears to be in one piece. Its a long while since I've needed a grease gun so I'll have to dig mine out - I assume once all the muck is off the nipple will be easy enough to see.
Off to Spa this weekend for the 6hrs with PH so won't get a chance to dig deeper for a while but I'll report back on progress as and when there is any.
I did 60 miles in it yesterday and it performed excellently if it did struggle to keep up a bit. I didn't want to push things too much at this stage so didn't get above 50 mph but what would the realistic 'cruising speed' of one of these be?
Touring - will have a look at the forum when I get a bit more spare time. For the gear shift I shall get my son on wiggling duty and see what we can see. I suspect we may need to remove the 40 yrs of accumulated gunge before we can see anything though! Are the pinch bolts accessable from above or is it a ramp job?
guru - the bonnet is the later type you describe and further investigation of commission/chassis numbers suggests its around the 9000th built. I would imagine this puts its build date fairly close to its registration date of April 70, it is on hydro though and rides very nicely. Not sure about the boot, there is an inner frame with 2 triangular and one trapezoid cut out and the skin appears to be in one piece. Its a long while since I've needed a grease gun so I'll have to dig mine out - I assume once all the muck is off the nipple will be easy enough to see.
Off to Spa this weekend for the 6hrs with PH so won't get a chance to dig deeper for a while but I'll report back on progress as and when there is any.
Alex - I'd be inclined to agree with you if it was clearly the original paint but its been resprayed at least once if not more than once if the overspray on the rubbers is anything to go by!
We will definitely retain the colour whatever we decide to do though - it just fits the car so well.
Sorry yours failed the MOT but nothing much there to worry about - you'll be back on the road in no time.
We will definitely retain the colour whatever we decide to do though - it just fits the car so well.
Sorry yours failed the MOT but nothing much there to worry about - you'll be back on the road in no time.
Dunelm Alumnus said:
Thank you both for taking the time to respond.
I did 60 miles in it yesterday and it performed excellently if it did struggle to keep up a bit. I didn't want to push things too much at this stage so didn't get above 50 mph but what would the realistic 'cruising speed' of one of these be?
Touring - will have a look at the forum when I get a bit more spare time. For the gear shift I shall get my son on wiggling duty and see what we can see. I suspect we may need to remove the 40 yrs of accumulated gunge before we can see anything though! Are the pinch bolts accessable from above or is it a ramp job?
guru - the bonnet is the later type you describe and further investigation of commission/chassis numbers suggests its around the 9000th built. I would imagine this puts its build date fairly close to its registration date of April 70, it is on hydro though and rides very nicely. Not sure about the boot, there is an inner frame with 2 triangular and one trapezoid cut out and the skin appears to be in one piece. Its a long while since I've needed a grease gun so I'll have to dig mine out - I assume once all the muck is off the nipple will be easy enough to see.
Off to Spa this weekend for the 6hrs with PH so won't get a chance to dig deeper for a while but I'll report back on progress as and when there is any.
You can get to the pinch bolts from under the bonnet. Pumping some grease into the selector shaft is a good plan.I did 60 miles in it yesterday and it performed excellently if it did struggle to keep up a bit. I didn't want to push things too much at this stage so didn't get above 50 mph but what would the realistic 'cruising speed' of one of these be?
Touring - will have a look at the forum when I get a bit more spare time. For the gear shift I shall get my son on wiggling duty and see what we can see. I suspect we may need to remove the 40 yrs of accumulated gunge before we can see anything though! Are the pinch bolts accessable from above or is it a ramp job?
guru - the bonnet is the later type you describe and further investigation of commission/chassis numbers suggests its around the 9000th built. I would imagine this puts its build date fairly close to its registration date of April 70, it is on hydro though and rides very nicely. Not sure about the boot, there is an inner frame with 2 triangular and one trapezoid cut out and the skin appears to be in one piece. Its a long while since I've needed a grease gun so I'll have to dig mine out - I assume once all the muck is off the nipple will be easy enough to see.
Off to Spa this weekend for the 6hrs with PH so won't get a chance to dig deeper for a while but I'll report back on progress as and when there is any.
Sounds like you have the later bootlid.
Just a quick update on this one.
I decided to strip out the gear linkage in the car and all appeared fine. Had a look at the pinch bolts as well and again no real issues. So back to the drawing board I thought, fearing an engine out job.......
It was only when I was putting everything back together that it dawned on me what the problem was.
For some reason the wide part of the lever (looks like a large bush from the top) just above the larger ball was hitting the head of the retaining bolt on the turret meaning that the lever couldn't go back as far as it wanted. A quick drive without this bolt in place confirmed this was the problem as all gears engaged fine (or as fine as they can on a 1970 Mini!).
Closer inspection of the bolt head showed this must have been an issue before as there were clear signs of a chamfer on it to attempt to avoid such contact. After some more drastic surgery to the bolt head I now have no contact with the lever and a massively improved gear change.
I am now left to ponder why this is happening as it is clearly not supposed to. I assume the engine is maybe canted a little back in the engine bay meaning the gearbox is a little too far forward which in turn means a longer travel is needed on the gear linkage to engage 2nd and 4th than would be normal.
I guess this would be a stabiliser issue allowing the engine to move. I can see the obvious one from block to bulkhead - are there any others I should be looking at and maybe rebushing/replacing?
So, its good to have fixed this for now but I'm keen to cure the disease rather than just the symptom so any comments would be much appreciated as always.
I decided to strip out the gear linkage in the car and all appeared fine. Had a look at the pinch bolts as well and again no real issues. So back to the drawing board I thought, fearing an engine out job.......
It was only when I was putting everything back together that it dawned on me what the problem was.
For some reason the wide part of the lever (looks like a large bush from the top) just above the larger ball was hitting the head of the retaining bolt on the turret meaning that the lever couldn't go back as far as it wanted. A quick drive without this bolt in place confirmed this was the problem as all gears engaged fine (or as fine as they can on a 1970 Mini!).
Closer inspection of the bolt head showed this must have been an issue before as there were clear signs of a chamfer on it to attempt to avoid such contact. After some more drastic surgery to the bolt head I now have no contact with the lever and a massively improved gear change.
I am now left to ponder why this is happening as it is clearly not supposed to. I assume the engine is maybe canted a little back in the engine bay meaning the gearbox is a little too far forward which in turn means a longer travel is needed on the gear linkage to engage 2nd and 4th than would be normal.
I guess this would be a stabiliser issue allowing the engine to move. I can see the obvious one from block to bulkhead - are there any others I should be looking at and maybe rebushing/replacing?
So, its good to have fixed this for now but I'm keen to cure the disease rather than just the symptom so any comments would be much appreciated as always.
the engine cannot alter its 'cant' due to the alloy tunnel been bolted to the gearbox. - this is so strong that the engine/box/gear lever will always be in the right place
it may be that the little plastic bus on the end of the gear lever had worn away, which increase the throw of the gear lever
it may be that the little plastic bus on the end of the gear lever had worn away, which increase the throw of the gear lever
Oh well, I fear the honeymoon period is over!
Noticed the brake lights were not working so delved into the fuse box - managed to get them on again with a good clean up of the connection - which incidentally appears to have been wired incorrectly to the permanently live fuse.
However my problem is that when I went to start it the car is now totally dead - no ignition or oil pressure dash lights, not even a click from the solenoid. There would appear to be no switched live at all. Both fuses look OK as I initially assumed I had blown a fuse. The only things that work are the horn the interior light and of course the brake lights which actually shouldn't!
I have had a look at the wiring diagram but fear it is a little beyond me and all roads lead to the control box which is certainly a closed book!
Before I call on my local indy in the morning does anyone have any suggestions for other thngs I should be checking?
Noticed the brake lights were not working so delved into the fuse box - managed to get them on again with a good clean up of the connection - which incidentally appears to have been wired incorrectly to the permanently live fuse.
However my problem is that when I went to start it the car is now totally dead - no ignition or oil pressure dash lights, not even a click from the solenoid. There would appear to be no switched live at all. Both fuses look OK as I initially assumed I had blown a fuse. The only things that work are the horn the interior light and of course the brake lights which actually shouldn't!
I have had a look at the wiring diagram but fear it is a little beyond me and all roads lead to the control box which is certainly a closed book!
Before I call on my local indy in the morning does anyone have any suggestions for other thngs I should be checking?
Dunelm Alumnus said:
Oh well, I fear the honeymoon period is over!
Noticed the brake lights were not working so delved into the fuse box - managed to get them on again with a good clean up of the connection - which incidentally appears to have been wired incorrectly to the permanently live fuse.
However my problem is that when I went to start it the car is now totally dead - no ignition or oil pressure dash lights, not even a click from the solenoid. There would appear to be no switched live at all. Both fuses look OK as I initially assumed I had blown a fuse. The only things that work are the horn the interior light and of course the brake lights which actually shouldn't!
I have had a look at the wiring diagram but fear it is a little beyond me and all roads lead to the control box which is certainly a closed book!
Before I call on my local indy in the morning does anyone have any suggestions for other thngs I should be checking?
It's a 41 year old mini, if it's standard, there shouldn't be any control boxes.Noticed the brake lights were not working so delved into the fuse box - managed to get them on again with a good clean up of the connection - which incidentally appears to have been wired incorrectly to the permanently live fuse.
However my problem is that when I went to start it the car is now totally dead - no ignition or oil pressure dash lights, not even a click from the solenoid. There would appear to be no switched live at all. Both fuses look OK as I initially assumed I had blown a fuse. The only things that work are the horn the interior light and of course the brake lights which actually shouldn't!
I have had a look at the wiring diagram but fear it is a little beyond me and all roads lead to the control box which is certainly a closed book!
Before I call on my local indy in the morning does anyone have any suggestions for other thngs I should be checking?
Sounds like one of the relays is wired up incorrectly.
All sorted now after a bout of open wallet surgery!
It appears that I had somehow shorted something in the control box which was not at all easy for them to find - would probably just have been cheaper to keep changing electrical bits until it started, its not as if there's a lot of them!
However a quick repair later and all is well.
Now to decide whether to restore it as a rally rep or keep it standard...............
It appears that I had somehow shorted something in the control box which was not at all easy for them to find - would probably just have been cheaper to keep changing electrical bits until it started, its not as if there's a lot of them!
However a quick repair later and all is well.
Now to decide whether to restore it as a rally rep or keep it standard...............
Dunelm Alumnus said:
All sorted now after a bout of open wallet surgery!
It appears that I had somehow shorted something in the control box which was not at all easy for them to find - would probably just have been cheaper to keep changing electrical bits until it started, its not as if there's a lot of them!
However a quick repair later and all is well.
Now to decide whether to restore it as a rally rep or keep it standard...............
I did mine as a road/club rally car and whilst it is sitting here doing nowt and hasn't done anything for 4 years I wish I had kept it standard. It would certainly have cost less to do and I could have therefore sold it for less and cleared it out of the garage.It appears that I had somehow shorted something in the control box which was not at all easy for them to find - would probably just have been cheaper to keep changing electrical bits until it started, its not as if there's a lot of them!
However a quick repair later and all is well.
Now to decide whether to restore it as a rally rep or keep it standard...............
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