Classic mini Drive Shaft Nut 'loose'
Discussion
Okay, so Back in December, our 1988 998 mayfair , lost all drive to the drivers side wheel, and it turned out that it needed a new drive flange, and bearings and CV joint, along with a couple of ball joints. Whilst the garage had the car I got them to fit 2 front discs and new pads.
They then delivered it back in the snow with only 3 wheel nuts on one wheel (which caused a stink but hey)
I digress, at the weekend, wifey, who has very good hearing, said she thought there was a squeak from the passenger side, although I couldn't hear anything myself.
Anyhow I thought I'd take a look, and there was about 4mm free play on the drive flange to nut. (That is the drive flange was able to move out and was effective held in place by the pads in the caliper)
So I took the split pin out and tighened it up and put a new pin in and all seems fine Questions : 1) Is this an example of more poor workmanship ? - car has done 1500 mile since decemeber 2) Are The wheel bearings fecked now ?
Note to the great and good. The other symptom was that the brake pedal was not hard, because the disc was clearly moving one of the pistons back into the caliper due to the free play.
My 'Industrial' Torque wrench runs out at 110 NM, so I took it to that, stood on it (100 KG x 0.5 meters) - it continued to rotate a bit and then I Checked the split pin hole, and it didn't line up so I stood on it a bit more (4 degrees ?) - it moved about the diameter of the hole in order to line up.
Wifey is most concerned as:
1) Our Son is about to finish A levels and had planned a trip up the m6 (From Merseyside) to the lake district (about 70 miles each way) and she has convinced herself that something bad will happen. Personally I see this as a fail safe system. The Caliper is holding the disc in place, so you'd have to get seriously noisy from wheel bearing collapse and the drive would fail first on the splined shaft, before the hub came off.
My only concern is that :
2) The Day after he comes back, we are heading to Gaydon to minifest 3rd July. - So no time for repairs if anything goes "wrong" in the lakes.
I could a lay her concerns by Driving it to Derby Next week (105 miles to work on monday morning). That would be a fair compromise.
They then delivered it back in the snow with only 3 wheel nuts on one wheel (which caused a stink but hey)
I digress, at the weekend, wifey, who has very good hearing, said she thought there was a squeak from the passenger side, although I couldn't hear anything myself.
Anyhow I thought I'd take a look, and there was about 4mm free play on the drive flange to nut. (That is the drive flange was able to move out and was effective held in place by the pads in the caliper)
So I took the split pin out and tighened it up and put a new pin in and all seems fine Questions : 1) Is this an example of more poor workmanship ? - car has done 1500 mile since decemeber 2) Are The wheel bearings fecked now ?
Note to the great and good. The other symptom was that the brake pedal was not hard, because the disc was clearly moving one of the pistons back into the caliper due to the free play.
My 'Industrial' Torque wrench runs out at 110 NM, so I took it to that, stood on it (100 KG x 0.5 meters) - it continued to rotate a bit and then I Checked the split pin hole, and it didn't line up so I stood on it a bit more (4 degrees ?) - it moved about the diameter of the hole in order to line up.
Wifey is most concerned as:
1) Our Son is about to finish A levels and had planned a trip up the m6 (From Merseyside) to the lake district (about 70 miles each way) and she has convinced herself that something bad will happen. Personally I see this as a fail safe system. The Caliper is holding the disc in place, so you'd have to get seriously noisy from wheel bearing collapse and the drive would fail first on the splined shaft, before the hub came off.
My only concern is that :
2) The Day after he comes back, we are heading to Gaydon to minifest 3rd July. - So no time for repairs if anything goes "wrong" in the lakes.
I could a lay her concerns by Driving it to Derby Next week (105 miles to work on monday morning). That would be a fair compromise.
Just to be really clear, Was the split pin still in place through the castle nut when you discovered the 4mm play?
if it was then I suspect the garage didn't do the nut up enough. But, they could have done the opposite and overtightened it so that its mullered (Yvan) the drive flange/wheel bearing contact area or the wheel bearing itself in the 1500 miles its done since the work was carried out, resulting in the play at the nut.
When the drivers side CV joint, drive flange, bearing and ball joints were replaced in December did anybody have a look at the passenger side ones? these might be in a bad way also and causing you the grief now? I personally always replace these parts as axle sets.
As there are some big trips planned with the car I would definitely get somebody to have a look at the passenger side as these bits are a bit mission critical - if only for piece of mind.
if it was then I suspect the garage didn't do the nut up enough. But, they could have done the opposite and overtightened it so that its mullered (Yvan) the drive flange/wheel bearing contact area or the wheel bearing itself in the 1500 miles its done since the work was carried out, resulting in the play at the nut.
When the drivers side CV joint, drive flange, bearing and ball joints were replaced in December did anybody have a look at the passenger side ones? these might be in a bad way also and causing you the grief now? I personally always replace these parts as axle sets.
As there are some big trips planned with the car I would definitely get somebody to have a look at the passenger side as these bits are a bit mission critical - if only for piece of mind.
if the split pin was in place then you have to assume that it was never done up tight in the first place, - they would have had to undo it to get the drive flange off to swop the disc.
but, i suspect that the split pin will be missing, as the nut will have unwound and sheared it off.
this often happens on the passenger side as the nut is always trying to undo its self due to the thread been a rh one.
its a mistake to try and over tighten the nut to get the split pin in (unless its, say, half a hole) - rather you should be looking at areas of wear like the taper washer, drive flange, bearings, hub etc. - if you try and ring the neck of the cv joint all you will do its either deform the bearings or strech the end of the cv joint - which will become apparent when it rings off in use......
if the nut comes undone and its ignored, it can go wrong very very quickly, the fist sign is the long brake pedal, shortly after its will lunch the bearing and hub - then the disc will crack around the perimiter (on a 8.4", a 7.5" is stronger so just gets white hot) and then the car will shed the wheel and the drive flange.
its a commen fault on mighty minis!!!
but, i suspect that the split pin will be missing, as the nut will have unwound and sheared it off.
this often happens on the passenger side as the nut is always trying to undo its self due to the thread been a rh one.
its a mistake to try and over tighten the nut to get the split pin in (unless its, say, half a hole) - rather you should be looking at areas of wear like the taper washer, drive flange, bearings, hub etc. - if you try and ring the neck of the cv joint all you will do its either deform the bearings or strech the end of the cv joint - which will become apparent when it rings off in use......
if the nut comes undone and its ignored, it can go wrong very very quickly, the fist sign is the long brake pedal, shortly after its will lunch the bearing and hub - then the disc will crack around the perimiter (on a 8.4", a 7.5" is stronger so just gets white hot) and then the car will shed the wheel and the drive flange.
its a commen fault on mighty minis!!!
Sounds like the wheel bearings weren't correctly seated. As described in Haynes the proper method is to first torque up the castle nut with the tapered washer replaced with a large thick washer (Haynes gives dimensions for this). This fully seats the bearings on the CV joint. Then you undo and retorque with the tapered washer in place.
Well in a 'shake down run' yesterday afternoon, we got about 30 miles before the bearings started erm complaining.
I've left it in the hands of a different garage as quite frankly I haven't got the patience with it anymore.
He says it'll be fixed by Tuesday, but wifey is saying she doesn't want anyone to drive it long distances because it's 'Unreliable'.
I've left it in the hands of a different garage as quite frankly I haven't got the patience with it anymore.
He says it'll be fixed by Tuesday, but wifey is saying she doesn't want anyone to drive it long distances because it's 'Unreliable'.
Like everything with a mini - do the job properly and it won't give problems. The fan spacer washer is perfect for that initial tighten up before putting the taper washer in. Use a spare though as it bends it a little bit after a few times! My approach is to do it up to "tight" with my 3/4 drive breaker bar, then nudge it round to the next split pin hole. A wheel locking device like the one described in the book of lies makes the job much easier. Also, always go forwards to the next hole, never back it off. If you fit the split pin so it has room to wobble when assembled you can easily tell if the nut is coming undone when the pin won't move.
minivanman said:
My approach is to do it up to "tight" with my 3/4 drive breaker bar, then nudge it round to the next split pin hole......... Also, always go forwards to the next hole, never back it off. If you fit the split pin so it has room to wobble when assembled you can easily tell if the nut is coming undone when the pin won't move.
if your 'forcing' the nut past the recomended torque setting to get it to line up with the next avalible hole, all you are doing is straining the bearings and overloading the threaded portion of the c.v joint.im sorry, but its advice like this that causes people to have problems with bearings/c.vs etc in the first place.
do it right, by the book and its rare that there is any problems!
GTRMikie said:
If the holes do not line up when the nut is at the correct torque, remove the nut and rub the mating face on a piece of emery paper lying on a sheet of glass. This removes a very thin layer of metal and allows the nut to be turned slightly further but still at the correct torque.
That's exactly what I do, but I use a power linisher.Gassing Station | Classic Minis | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff